Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Lucavi]

Blast Shot- strong candidate for worst WS in game

Isn't that the one where you hit them with the ranged weapon, then shoot? That should get bonus points just for looks.

But seriously, if you want the worst WS in the game, look no further than Vorpal Thrust -- the move that's neigh impossible to get over 250 damage, no matter WHAT you're fighting.

Who the hell would be WSing in Homam body in the first place?

Somebody that reaaaallly wants that max tp return on their penta?

[Khamsin]

Blast Shot- strong candidate for worst WS in game

Isn't that the one where you hit them with the ranged weapon, then shoot? That should get bonus points just for looks.

But seriously, if you want the worst WS in the game, look no further than Vorpal Thrust -- the move that's neigh impossible to get over 250 damage, no matter WHAT you're fighting.

Nah, the worst WS in the game is obviously Earth Crusher. It's just as bad as Rock Crusher, but AoE.

[Lucavi]

Earth crusher's damage is actually pretty good in ballista. There's actually a few hardcore whm/sams that would spam it with DD gear on in uncapped and 60. Vorpal thrust, however, has absolutely NO use anywhere.

[SephYuyX]

Rock/Earth Crusher are kinda good actualy D: Now Star/Sunburst and SKull Crusher on the other hand..

[Lucavi]

Vorpal is worse than those, because they can match the damage with vorpal, yet this is while performing vorpal in full DD gear with a 94 damage lance. A mage in mage gear with star crusher can do the same, lol.

Its seriously the worst.

[ronin sparthos]

Blast Shot gets an award for 'Cool looking WS that does shit for damage'

The obvious worst WS is Tachi: Koki - duh.

[TruBlu]

BLU is one of the better jobs SE hasnt fucked up, it has moderate ability to do a little of everything without being terrible at anything makes it useful for most non-HNM things. On the HNM-scene it could use some adjustments but jeeze.... so could uh: MNK, BST, PUP, DNC, SCH, THF, SMN, RNG in terms of them not being the best at everything.

Let's stop that right there. Blu is what you EQUIP it to be, it can't do everything unless you sacrifice other stats and job traits to do so. Of course if you equip DD spells, then equip cure spells, then equip enfeebles, then equip support spells then of course you're the jack of all trades, so no you shouldn't be the best at everything. But what about when you are in full DD mode, because you're support isn't "needed"? And you have all STR and atk things equipped. Or when you're in full support mode. Or when you're in full Nuke mode. Blu isn't like other "hybrid" jobs. It's the only job of its kind. And exactly what SE said it was, the first customizable job. And even as it stands now, you CAN'T be the best physical DD by equipping a ton of magic nukes, and you can't maximize your nuke by throwing on a ton of DD spells, and support. No one is saying the job sucks. And all of us know it's absolutely fantastic in non hnm settings. But Honestly, people are talking about HNM right now. And it's abilities on endgame NMs, which is clearly needs some tweaking.

Of course MNK, BST, PUP, DNC, SCH, THF, SMN, RNG could use adjustments, we all know this. If you feel they need adjustments then start a conversation about what you feel they need, and people will talk about that too. Let's not turn this into who is more deserving of an update, because that gets us no where. And it doesn't hurt to just discuss a job that is not as bad off as another. Talking about such a job doesn't prevent anyone from also talking about another.

[Lucavi]

I hope bst gets nice toys, really. That job deserves so much better.

[TruBlu]

I hope bst gets nice toys, really. That job deserves so much better.

Tell me about it. They need to massively buff the pets. Pets ignore mob def, yet what's the point if youre pets can't hit something? I bet if pets had higher attk, and acc, you'd see bst on a lot more hnm things. But I'm no expert on Bst, and it might need something else instead that I don't know about. But that seems to be the general complaint i hear people talk about.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Actually Wasp Sting is the worst WS in the game because it actually has NO modifiers.


Second worst would be Blade:Ei because it's impossible to break 80 damage with it.

[ronin sparthos]

BLU is one of the better jobs SE hasnt fucked up, it has moderate ability to do a little of everything without being terrible at anything makes it useful for most non-HNM things. On the HNM-scene it could use some adjustments but jeeze.... so could uh: MNK, BST, PUP, DNC, SCH, THF, SMN, RNG in terms of them not being the best at everything.

Let's stop that right there. Blu is what you EQUIP it to be, it can't do everything unless you sacrifice other stats and job traits to do so. Of course if you equip DD spells, then equip cure spells, then equip enfeebles, then equip support spells then of course you're the jack of all trades, so no you shouldn't be the best at everything. But what about when you are in full DD mode, because you're support isn't "needed"? And you have all STR and atk things equipped. Or when you're in full support mode. Or when you're in full Nuke mode. Blu isn't like other "hybrid" jobs. It's the only job of its kind. And exactly what SE said it was, the first customizable job. And even as it stands now, you CAN'T be the best physical DD by equipping a ton of magic nukes, and you can't maximize your nuke by throwing on a ton of DD spells, and support. No one is saying the job sucks. And all of us know it's absolutely fantastic in non hnm settings. But Honestly, people are talking about HNM right now. And it's abilities on endgame NMs, which is clearly needs some tweaking.

Of course MNK, BST, PUP, DNC, SCH, THF, SMN, RNG could use adjustments, we all know this. If you feel they need adjustments then start a conversation about what you feel they need, and people will talk about that too. Let's not turn this into who is more deserving of an update, because that gets us no where. And it doesn't hurt to just discuss a job that is not as bad off as another. Talking about such a job doesn't prevent anyone from also talking about another.

....and who better to tell this to than someone whos had to oppertunity to play BLU since the launch of it and has tried all the amazing applications BLU can be put to if given the oppertunities. Ive tried the tanking, the healing, the light zerging, the assaulting, the salvaging and the einherjaring - the job is in comparison to all the other ones in the game good with the drawback that it just doesnt scale up versus HNM and thats completely imo done on purpose because of the nature of how SE handles hybrids and jobs that dont have obvious applications. (SAM is a DD, its a good DD - BLM is a nuker, its a good nuker - BRD is a buffer, its a good buffer - BLU can do a little of each so SE decides to make it weaker in each with the appeal being an 'all-in-one' approach)

Multi-hit spells will always suck on HNMs because of the accuracy issue, if people were busting out no sweat 500-600 Disserverments/H.Barrages/Frenetic Rips then we'd get the wave of complaints the job is broken and must be adjusted. I agree, there should be some application for BLU in the endgame and it has C.ball/V.cleave combined with SA, stun applications and backup healing (sadly more than some jobs get at all) but the bigger issue of half of the magical spells being damn-well near useless is far more urgent than making BLU 'better' at a facet of the game SE doesnt really give a damn about anymore. If anything:

Fixing the broken magical roster (Hi2u huge MP sinking spells for short effects or HUGE recasts) > getting AF+1 out/Relic (yeah....) > new gear for BLU (newer jobs get hosed gear-wise why now?) > new spells (March will solve this) > more slots to equip spells (eventually this will become an issue) > scaling up BLU spells versus HNM > new JAs (stance JAs, beast 'syncs' or whatever.) > 2hour overhaul. (Azure Lore really should open your entire spellbook for the timer, but thats just icing on a cake)

is how i think SE should be looking at what to do for BLU, the job is one of the few things they launched outta the gate without it blowing up so i think they should just tweak things, god knows when they get 'ideas' about things they end up being totally ass.

Besides... they have their hands full trying to make SCH into something that doesnt walk and talk like a RDM who forgot how to refresh and haste.

[Almalexia]

Blast Shot gets an award for 'Cool looking WS that does shit for damage'

The obvious worst WS is Tachi: Koki - duh.

If we're handing out awards for WSs that are cool-looking but shitty, Koki earns one too!

[Lucavi]

Besides... they have their hands full trying to make SCH into something that doesnt walk and talk like a RDM who forgot how to refresh and haste.

Spot on, there. I'm hoping for the best with scholar, as they were always very powerful in previous FFs that had them. SE needs to devise more abilities for mage jobs that aren't actual spells -- its too easy to have everyone step on each other's toes when all they can do is choose from a list of spells that many jobs have access to. Seals were a good start, but even still, rdm has no seal, and boosting the magical power of a single spell isn't enough to differentiate each mage class.

Lets get more mp-boosting abilities, more AOE buffs that have a short duration, more buffs to make enfeebles long-lasting, more intelligence and mind buffs, and more buffs that reduce cooldowns on spells, or reduce the mp requirements of them. None of this stuff would take a lot of programming to create, and they'd all help to flesh out these mage jobs.

[TruBlu]

BLU can do a little of each so SE decides to make it weaker in each with the appeal being an 'all-in-one' approach)

You THINK SE did that, but the fact that blu has a shit ton of technical issues, especially its magical side shows that SE simply has over looked some things, or didn't fully think something through. It's clear blu is not finished. None of the expansion jobs are. So I don't see how you can say it's intentional. You'd also have a point if like hybrid jobs blu could do ALL of that at the same time, at all times and be the best at all of them. In a fight it's a Hybrid, IF you set it that way. You don't have to make it a hybrid. The fact that they limit the number of spells you can equip, and gave them each points, show they don't want you to best the best at everything if you equip it all. If you equip support and cures and stuns, then you miss out on str and possibly attk. The draw backs are clear. Not every Blu is an all in one. If it was, you'd have access to every spell you had, and wouldn't suffer a penalty for swapping a spell. The fact that you even admit half the magic spells are useless, show blu is incomplete.

if people were busting out no sweat 500-600 Disserverments/H.Barrages/Frenetic Rips then we'd get the wave of complaints the job is broken and must be adjusted.

Why would they be "no sweat"? Wouldn't it be for the most fantastically equipped blu? And even if they could, no it wouldn't be overpowered. Because it already can do that it normal setting, and most of the time it can do more then 500 dmg. Hi2u 1k+ Dissv in a lot of normal settings. If MP was unlimited, you'd be right but it's not. You forget it's sword dot is much weaker then any 2 hander on HNM. And even merit parties show that 1k+ dissv won't make you out parse top geared melee. And in HNM you don't have the luxury of 150 mp return Drain kisses. So it would be even worse. Getting 500 Diss and Frentic Rips on Omega show that you can still be out damaged by others. So I don't see how you can say it would be over powered. If it's not overpowered on Omega, why would it be over powered on Cerberus?

And even in FL fights you can pop 500-600 dmg spells, like candy from the sky. But guess what? A mnk, drk, sam, and war will STILL out dmg you in the fight. Which is perfectly fine that you're out DD'd. I don't need to out DD mnks, drks, and sams.

You say that its a all in one and we are not good at once thing,and that is plain false. We specialize in spike damage. Better then any other job. But at it stands, on HNM we can't even do that, the one thing we normally are kings at.

Besides... they have their hands full trying to make SCH into something that doesnt walk and talk like a RDM who forgot how to refresh and haste.

Cause only one person does job adjustments amirite? Seriously, se could update as many jobs at once they they felt like.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Fuck job adjustments, I'm still waiting for them to add animation to the other 4 non Elvaan races whenc asting magic. It seems Elvaan are the only race that when casting any kind of magic, their cloths/armor and hair move in the wind. The other jobs clothing and hair stay frozen. It's like different teams made each race...or they made Elvaans first then skimped on the other 4 cuz of time constraints... -_-

[ronin sparthos]

You THINK SE did that, but the fact that blu has a shit ton of technical issues, especially its magical side shows that SE simply has over looked some things, or didn't fully think something through. It's clear blu is not finished. None of the expansion jobs are. So I don't see how you can say it's intentional. You'd also have a point if like hybrid jobs blu could do ALL of that at the same time, at all times. In a fight it's a Hybrid if YOU set it that way. You don't have to make it a hybrid. THe fact that they limit the number of spells you can equip, and gave them each points, show they don't want you to best the best at everything if you equip it all. If you equip support and cures and stuns, then you miss out on str and possibly attk. The draw backs are clear. Not every Blu is an all in one. If it was, you'd have access to every spell you had, and wouldn't suffer a penalty for swapping a spell. The fact that you even admit half the magic spells are useless, show blu is incomplete.

Ok, first off - we know the magical side is fucked up, they showed they COULD adjust MP-costs much like when BLU first launched they fixed the Abysmal resist rate ALL magical spells had (couldnt even land dispel, it was lolable) and the quick drop in the cost of Frightful Roar, a step in the Right direction. Now lets fast forward from early ToAU to late ToAU, BLU got some pretty pwn items outta the expansion pack but the fact still remains that SIMPLE things like readjusting the MP costs for spells has still been left undone - perdu hanger, adaman kilij, morrigan robe attire, new spells - but they couldnt care to swap how much MP shit like Bad Breath, Warm-Up and Memento Mori cost? This isnt revolutionary, its simply changing how much spells cost and would solve half the magical side problem. (I'll concede adjusting resist values and damage output would be harder for SE requiring testing n shit.)

Now you said that it isnt intentional that SE nerfs certain jobs like BLU on purpose? Its true, BLU is highly customizable and intentionally has limitatations on what it can do spell-swapwise but the issue is that all jobs in this game that are multi-purpose are INTENTIONALLY given flaws in fear of being too powerful on SEs side, thats a fact compounded by a metric ton of evidence. Here look:

-DRG: DD with a wyvern pet, somehow this justifies them getting shitty armor options (Hauby is an insult, a NIN can wear over a DRG, Hauberk & Adaman Hauberk could be dismissed with the 'they are too heavy to jump with'), offset by solo capabilities SE decided to use the air of caution in not making them the best at anything (gear options beyond the Hauby family arguement) which in turn led the playerbase to shun the job and SE as well. Only recently has SE decided to throw some things DRGs way (Acc Bonus, Ares Curiass etc), but many flaws still exist and for a pet job that means a long wait. (wyvern getting nailed by AOE effectively removes half of the job, no practical HNM applications, no real 'draw' to the job besides the wyvern who is devoid of any customization outside the 3 modes)

-DRK: Intentionally not given tier 3 nukes for fear of being too unbalancing, only recently has SE given DRK any spells to work with, still fears giving them anything magey for fear the players will abuse it 'somehow'. Remember, DRK is a supposed hybrid DD/mage - try convincing anyone its anything but a glorified DD. I will concede that SE is trying to make the job more spell-based but where are the offensive spells for a mostly offensive job?

-SMN: The conundrum of being paired with /whm or being completely useless for fear the inaccurate avatars would be too powerful and abused in some way or another as if the perp costs werent bad enough.

-BST: The most shunned job in the game on SEs end and players end, seriously how many times do you see this job in play? BST gets alot of good armor options (hell it gets top tier DD gear over DRG for crying out loud) but does that make BST amazing? Nope. Why? because the pets are horrible and devoid of accuracy to offset the chance that it becomes broken if players figured out some way to make BST good at something. Snarl? Ok, that was a good idea - too bad jugpets are weaker than native pets, the move doesnt work with standard pets and the compounding fact that using Sic doesnt allow you to pick the TP move you want outta your pet. Beast-what? Surely not a master if your own pet wont listen to you. Lets not even get into the issue of shitty pet food, no way to make your pet better, jugs being a royal pain to aquire, jugpet cap levels, severe draught on the kinda things you can charm and no real 'purpose' to having a BST at any event in the game. When i first got FFXI i wanted to be a Beastmaster, then i found out you could ONLY solo/bst duo because the pets gave me an exp penalty, your jugpets sucked vs VT-IT and had timers - not to mention old Brady.

Its pretty easy to see that SE intentionally gimps jobs (especially pet/hybrid jobs) for fear of the job becoming too powerful and them having another can 'o worms kclub/ridill etc situation (notice the new jobs cant use it?) BLU? Its been a whole expansion pack, surely changing MP values and resist rates isnt revolutionizing the job - hell the whole issue was caused because they were too scared that BLU would become some kinda crazed broken job they'd have to nerf if they didnt hose half the magical spells.

SE has taken some steps to fix problems, but glaring problems still exist - problems i think are intentional to limit many (mostly pet jobs and hybrids) jobs and prevent overpowering.

[Lucavi]

Well said. Its obvious that you know much about the plight of pet-jobs. Hopefully SE can figure out that intentional dampening of a pet job's abilities and strength is not the way to go. Having two people (a master and pet) hitting weaker than one person is worthless in a game (other than for personal enjoyment or crowd control, but even that can be performed better by kiters) where your worth is determined by how much damage you can do, how much damage you can mitigate, how much damage you can recover, or a combination of the three.

Increasing the power, speed, and/or accuracy of a bst's pet (or at the very least, allow them to be customizable to suit the needs of the bst and situation), allowing them to have a re-summonable pet companion (drop jug pets -- it was a seriously bad idea, and they've yet to remedy the situation), and giving them at least one way to boost their own attack potential (maybe if their pet dies in combat, give them a buff that increases their power by a certain percentage) would go very far towards making it a more effective and enjoyable job.

[ronin sparthos]

Im confident every person thats played this game and has any shred of observation playing many of the more 'creative' jobs (pets, hybrids, etc) will notice SEs now trademark brand of caution in terms of how they develop and treat newer classes versus the older classes. Never again shall any new jobs touch a kraken club, never again will a job come outta the box raping a veteran job - always sidebar with less gear options and in some cases more 'fun' to play. (DNC COR and BLU were fun to play imo - they were creative.) Fun unfortunately dies once you hit 75 and if you dont have something new to offer to the endgame community in some way, the door is way. Something SE forgets to factor in time and time again.

Summoners summon, but they are backline healers with avatars that cant hit the broad side of the barn if it cons VT-IT, even if they could does it translate into logical DPS/MP? Nope. Beastmasters are supposedly called good 'crowd-control' but where does that beat sleeping a shitload of monsters with a Bard or Black/Red Mages? Puppetmaster along with Blue Mage showed that SE could create jobs that were customizable given the limitations to work with so where the hell is the obvious customization updates for Dragoon/Beastmaster/Summoner? (color pallete swap is too much to ask for a wyvern? where are visible stats for your wyvern, pets? ability to buff your pets with food, drinks, buff your pets with songs/rolls directly, and merits for your pets since they are so clutch?) This flawed logic is why these jobs will never truely overwhelm the more manual jobs, the npc AI is dumb or there are so many limitations that your fighting uphill versus someone that just has to auto-attack and hit some WS macros to completely rape you on a parser. (Oh yeah, since npc damage/SC damage doesnt count towards a players parse they are auto-gimp, thats a player issue though)

Many aspects of this game are simply left in place because SE doesnt know how to fix it or doesnt wanna have a massive backlash from the community. Utsusemi and DRK zerging are two examples of 'broken' tactics that SE simply will not remove because the backlash will require them to overhaul the mechanics which is simply too much work. This game breaks down to grinding EXP, HNMs/events/quests in which people want optimal efficiency and meriting where if you arent a handful of jobs that are desired you can kindly get the fuck out - friends are a safety net, they'll accept you but really the case is that every job should have something that they are 'optimal' at, even if its an event or some kinda appliable situation - thats nothing too difficult to ask for.

Id pay 40bucks simply for an expansion pack that added little new content and simply just fixed a boatload of shit.

[LeifofKujata]

I totally agree with BLU lacking on HNM; miss and 0 to ~400 dmg Frenetic Rip on Nidhogg is rather awful compared to sam, war, and drk. I also rather not see a huge overpowering of the job, easily hitting 400-800 dmg "physical" spells on HNMs would be a bit excesive. Tweaking the lvl correction slightly and fixing MP cost for magical spells would definately be a step in the right direction. MP cost would be way more profound imo tho.

[TruBlu]

And you think the fact that so many jobs have glaring flaws is acceptable???
Since when is "well everything else is flawed, might as well not hope for fixes for anyone else" a legit rebuttal?

Atleast you listed issues for other jobs, and that what you should be doing.
You keep calling blu a hybrid job as if it's that 24/7, and it's not unless you CHOOSE to make it so. No one is forcing you to equip Magic Fruit, no one is forcing you to equip Temparal shift, no one is forcing you to equip Delicious carrots for everyone. Of course if you equip that stuff you SHOULD lose stats for offense, and you DO. A blu won't be hitting anything with CASATA VC for 1600 dmg with a bunch of magical nukes, heals, and debuffs equipped. RDM is a Hybrid job, and it has access to it's full arsenal, and it's one of the most powerful jobs in the game.

Why do you seem to think everyone is asking for blu to out right out DD, and out parse Mnks, Nins, Wars, Sams, Drgs, and Drks?? That's not what Blu does, nor should it. You keep saying Blu is a hybrid job that doesnt specialize in anything, and i've already told you that is out right false. I've told you what Blu specializes in, but you seem to keep ignoring it. A DDing blu specializes in Fast High Spike Damage. And it can do that without out DDing every other melee. Are you trying to say a BLU is overpowered in a merit party? Or a Blu is overpowered in every otehr situation outside of hnm? Are you forgetting the glaring difference in dmg output of a 1 handed sword vs a GK, GA, or Sythe on hnm? Are you forgetting how much a BRD can enhance them? So why shouldn't the focus be put on the spells instead? The spells are what make blu able to bridge the gap as close as it can.

Telling me how broken everyone else is, is not a good argument why blu should stay the way it is.
All it does, it show everyone how those jobs need fixing too. WHy can't you see that Blu doesn't need to be the BEST DD to be desired and wanted at endgame? A DDing blu is not a hybrid, it's a Zerger. And the icing on the cake is you openly admit that magical blu is ridiculously flawed, yet physical blu is the exact way they intended it to be? By your logic magical blu is as they intended it to be too. iS weak SMN magic intended?? or an oversight? Yet you stick to that physical blu flaws vs high def is intentional? How convenient!

hitting 400-800 dmg "physical" spells on HNMs would be a bit excesive.

Anything like 800 from a non sata would be excessive. But 500 dmg FR from a pimped out Blu is more then fair. And still wouldn't make it better then a sam. But it would be a step in the right direction. And give it a purpose.