Opinions for Job Adjustments

[ronin sparthos]

Most of the magical spells are extremely limited, im sure they expected people to use a majority of physical spells with magical spells sprinkled in for good measure.

[Septimus]

Most of the magical spells are extremely limited, im sure they expected people to use a majority of physical spells with magical spells sprinkled in for good measure.

I think that we should all know better. Square expected Blue Mages to sub Black Mage so that they could Elemental Seal 1,000 Needles for good damage once every 10 minutes, then main heal with Magic Fruit the rest of the time. The fact that people turned BLU into some sort of Damage Dealer with physical spells is an utter mystery to them.

[Ohemgee]

Where was the Zam memo? I think I missed it over all this speculations. :bagel:

[The Q]

There is a lot of material here that would make good questions for the upcoming interview.

Defense problems, Subjob skewing, and MP problems are really good topics for questions if anyone wanted to ask them.

[Kenji]

Someone else in another forum made a suggestion to allow for /DRG to have access to the wyvern. I laughed it off at first, then started to consider the possibilities, and how well they might work. One of the most intriguing aspects, was BLU/DRG. You'd get access to jumps, accuracy bonus, Healing breaths (cure II level), and remove status breaths(remove poison at lv1, and remove blind at 40). And haste gear of course. That is, if it worked like DRG/BLU does.

Headbutt could trigger an emergency heal, which would land because the mob is stunned. Become blinded and thus accuracy is lowered? WS to remove it, saving your healer from doing it.

Was a random thought, wondering how well it would stack up in a solo or party situation. It was noted that DRG was the only pet job, where you don't have access to the pet when subbed. Then again, the low DoT from the half-level wyvern might not be worth it, due to the TP it gives the mob.

Added mnk and drk suggestions to the front page, to possibly up their appeal for SJ choices.

[BRP]

I think for DRG(main job anyway, since subs having wyverns been brought up), they should do away with the subjob thing. A wyvern should be at it's full potential from the start. Don't feel like getting into how it would work. Maybe more status effect cure breaths and a Haste Breath.

[ronin sparthos]

Someone else in another forum made a suggestion to allow for /DRG to have access to the wyvern. I laughed it off at first, then started to consider the possibilities, and how well they might work. One of the most intriguing aspects, was BLU/DRG. You'd get access to jumps, accuracy bonus, Healing breaths (cure II level), and remove status breaths(remove poison at lv1, and remove blind at 40). And haste gear of course. That is, if it worked like DRG/BLU does.

Headbutt could trigger an emergency heal, which would land because the mob is stunned. Become blinded and thus accuracy is lowered? WS to remove it, saving your healer from doing it.

Was a random thought, wondering how well it would stack up in a solo or party situation. It was noted that DRG was the only pet job, where you don't have access to the pet when subbed. Then again, the low DoT from the half-level wyvern might not be worth it, due to the TP it gives the mob.

Added mnk and drk suggestions to the front page, to possibly up their appeal for SJ choices.

DRG subbers being able to use a wyvern would be pretty silly... the whole 'appeal' to being a DRG is having the little dragon as your pet and everyone being able to have one is pretty damaging to the main. The pet would be capped at 37 so there goes any utility or damage outta it, the most it'd do is make and interesting distraction to the monsters your fighting and make anyone /drg look like the real deal.

[Kenji]

I think for DRG(main job anyway, since subs having wyverns been brought up), they should do away with the subjob thing. A wyvern should be at it's full potential from the start. Don't feel like getting into how it would work. Maybe more status effect cure breaths and a Haste Breath.

Only problem is, a DRG/WAR has no mp or spells. So how would they trigger healing breath? And Remove Breath and Elemental breaths are both triggered by WS's. So which would happen when you WS? It's an interesting option, but I gather they did it this way, to encourage SJ diversity.

DRG subbers being able to use a wyvern would be pretty silly... the whole 'appeal' to being a DRG is having the little dragon as your pet and everyone being able to have one is pretty damaging to the main. The pet would be capped at 37 so there goes any utility or damage outta it, the most it'd do is make and interesting distraction to the monsters your fighting and make anyone /drg look like the real deal.

No damage, yeah, but the utility is there, in the healing and remove status breaths. Just like someone subbing SMN for aerial armor, or subbing PUP for a puppet who will heal you. Everyone having a wyvern would be silly, but I don't think it would come to that. There are only 4 classes that get the hybrid wyvern, and 6 that get the defensive wyvern. None of the melee classes would sub it for that, since elemental breaths wouldn't be worth it.

Leveling mage classes, I always subbed SMN for the first 5-10 levels, as carby makes kills much faster. Having a wyvern could fulfill the same role for melee classes. Not to mention, the Remove Poison breath is lv1, which would save money on antidotes. Always hated dying to a crawler poison long after the crawler was dead.

Like I said, was an amusing thought. I think the main rationale behind the person who brought it up, was that someone subbing SMN, PUP, or BST has access to the pets; why not DRG?

[Siatdiat]

Probably b/c Drgs get Jumps and Acc bonuses, that dont require a wyvern to use. Where as Bsts, Smns, and Pups job abilities require the use of their pets.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Easy. Since wyverns abilities arte based on subjob, when it's subbed make it LOCKED into offensive type since that is the default type a wyvern is when the sub is removed and limit it to the level of the /DRG. A level 37 DRG's wyvern breath only does about 127ish when not resisted, which it will almost always be on merit mobs.

[Siatdiat]

What does a /drg fight for?

[Khamsin]

What does a /drg fight for?

Truth, justice, and the San d'Orian way.

[BRP]

Only problem is, a DRG/WAR has no mp or spells. So how would they trigger healing breath? And Remove Breath and Elemental breaths are both triggered by WS's. So which would happen when you WS? It's an interesting option, but I gather they did it this way, to encourage SJ diversity.

Simple(probably not perfect) solution off the top of my head: "Offensive" and "Support" modes(Orders, Commands, Styles, etc etc). The "base" style is still based on subjob.

In Offense Mode: WSes and Jumps trigger Elemental Breaths. Improvements to Elemental Breath potency.

In Support Mode: WSes and Jumps trigger Remove Breaths. If no one has a status effect or just Slow, after the level it learns it, the Wyvern uses Haste Breath(Haste spell with a longer duration). Improvements to Healing Breath potency.

Healing Breath is used based on spells or after a few physical attacks(3-5) hit assuming someone is in low health.

[Max™]

To be fair, if the little rat could cure me some, so I could War/Drg without completely obliterating my healers MP, it is a lot of fun from time to time.

They do get Spirit link which I always found amusing, but really, subbed wyverns would be kind of silly.

[Eggroll]

I wouldn't mind something for bards like in mabinogi where you can make your own custom song to play whenever you use an instrument :<

[Psion]

If you're going to make a wevern available subbed, why not simply make the type based on your job? if your a whm/drg, then you get a healer type, if your a rdm/drg a hybrid, if your a war/drg you get a attacker type. That's the only logical way that I can see anyways. >.>;

[Nyuneko]

Wouldn't a wyvern, that you have little control over, be feeding TP with its 1-2 damages(37 cap wyvern against 75's targets?)? Can the lower tier Healing Breath(triggered at 25% HP without AF??) justifies the TP feeding?

[Kenji]

If you're going to make a wevern available subbed, why not simply make the type based on your job? if your a whm/drg, then you get a healer type, if your a rdm/drg a hybrid, if your a war/drg you get a attacker type. That's the only logical way that I can see anyways. >.>;

That was the initial way I saw it, too. But BRP's suggestion of allowing the wyvern type to be selectable, might go a ways toward letting someone sub DRG instead of NIN, so the wyvern could help cure them if they took damage. I'd like to DRG main wyvern's have the ability to cure as long as someone was missing some HP.

Wouldn't a wyvern, that you have little control over, be feeding TP with its 1-2 damages(37 cap wyvern against 75's targets?)? Can the lower tier Healing Breath(triggered at 25% HP without AF??) justifies the TP feeding?

That was the main concern I had. On the other hand, if it spent 75% of it's time whiffing, then it wouldn't be feeding TP at all. Maybe someone with a 37 DRG can speak up as to how a wyvern does on a Lv75 mob. Whif a lot? Or just hit for 1s and 2s?

[Nyuneko]

I don't know, if you are looking for a healer sub for melee's casual activities(campaign or farming), wouldn't PUP make a better choice? You don't need to limit your HP to 25% to trigger the heals, your PUP can remove status just as well, and you can be very sure that it wouldn't attack the enemy. The only downside is, the PUP-haters would have to level PUP to 40(I think?) for white turban, I guess.

[Kenji]

I don't know, if you are looking for a healer sub for melee's casual activities(campaign or farming), wouldn't PUP make a better choice? You don't need to limit your HP to 25% to trigger the heals, your PUP can remove status just as well, and you can be very sure that it wouldn't attack the enemy. The only downside is, the PUP-haters would have to level PUP to 40(I think?) for white turban, I guess.

While that's certainly an option, I was also thinking for xp parties. DRG as a sub brings more offensive options then PUP does. However, the wyvern would need some adjustments. Along with what BRP was suggesting, make the following changes to DRG main:

1. Wyvern type is selectable via a JA command.
2. Wyvern healing breaths trigger starting at 25% at lv1, and go up as you level. Lv37 would be 50%, and 75 would be 75%. if any PC is below 75% health (the extra AF gear would increase 10% each)
3. Wyvern healing breaths trigger on use of a JA, as well as a spell
4. Remove Status Breath is still triggered by a WS if defensive only. Hybrid and offensive wyverns would still use elemental breath

As a sub, you could set the wyvern to defensive, and use a JA or spell to trigger a cure II level move (that's the highest you can get with a sub), when someone is 50% or less health. A couple of people subbing DRG, could take quite a bit of the load off a healer, especially in regards to spike damage that drops them low. And a DRG main could play as a decent spot healer, as Jumps would trigger healing breaths at 75-95% health.

I'll agree with Max, though, that it might get silly to have at least half your group with wyverns out. Nevermind the whole feeding TP issue. And on second thought, this all might be too OP. But more OP that being able to completely negate 90% of the damage with a sub(Utsu)?