Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Maxxthepenguin]

SCH can nuke worth a damn now, something that only BLM could do until now. BLM is still far more powerful and doesn't have gimped white magic while able to cast the tier IV nukes and sleeps

[LD]

Frankly, the fact that BLM finally has even a bit of competition is healthy, if not one of the best things to happen to this game. It's not like BLM is suddenly taking a back seat, it's just that there's finally another real nuker (and SCH needs /DRK to stun). The mage job I'm really worried about is WHM. It still has a few things to its credit, Repose, R3, Cure5, Shell5, etc., but if RDM can be a comparable healer without those things, then SCH sure as Hell can. A nice first step would be making Divine Veil into a 1 minute JA.

I think there are jobs more deserving of consideration and adjustment. Most are still languishing in mediocrity, with no real place in end game (or they have a place in end game, but are totally over-powered by other jobs that fill the same role.) I plan on leveling SCH, but I'm almost afraid to, because unless they give my other jobs meaningful changes, I'll probably only be doing anything on that (besides soloing, merits, and campaign).


Also, fuck yea Bruce Lee.

[Koyangi]

Not only does SCH lack the power of a BLM, but they lack the Ele Skill/magic accuracy as a whole to do what BLM does on lot's of high level mob's. Yes they get access to decent choices right now for some MAB, but Ele skill is harder to stack on. Now giving them Morrigan's set will be like a double-edged sword, we'd want them to have it because it owns, but then we'd actually make them very powerful and able to rival or out-DD (not AM2) a lot of gimp BLM out there.

[Kerberoz]

Frankly, the fact that BLM finally has even a bit of competition is healthy, if not one of the best things to happen to this game. It's not like BLM is suddenly taking a back seat, it's just that there's finally another real nuker (and SCH needs /DRK to stun). The mage job I'm really worried about is WHM. It still has a few things to its credit, Repose, R3, Cure5, Shell5, etc., but if RDM can be a comparable healer without those things, then SCH sure as Hell can. A nice first step would be making Divine Veil into a 1 minute JA.

I think there are jobs more deserving of consideration and adjustment. Most are still languishing in mediocrity, with no real place in end game (or they have a place in end game, but are totally over-powered by other jobs that fill the same role.) I plan on leveling SCH, but I'm almost afraid to, because unless they give my other jobs meaningful changes, I'll probably only be doing anything on that (besides soloing, merits, and campaign).


Also, fuck yea Bruce Lee.

The point isn't that SCH is a threat; it's that BLM has not gotten an update in over 4 years, and the SCH buff emphasizes that fact. Regardless of what other jobs "deserve" it, it would not kill SE or affect balance to throw us a bone after years of being ignored. Simple things like Aspir II, some new form of MP conservation, and a damage+ job ability would be quick and easy.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Frankly, the fact that BLM finally has even a bit of competition is healthy, if not one of the best things to happen to this game. It's not like BLM is suddenly taking a back seat, it's just that there's finally another real nuker (and SCH needs /DRK to stun). The mage job I'm really worried about is WHM. It still has a few things to its credit, Repose, R3, Cure5, Shell5, etc., but if RDM can be a comparable healer without those things, then SCH sure as Hell can. A nice first step would be making Divine Veil into a 1 minute JA.

I think there are jobs more deserving of consideration and adjustment. Most are still languishing in mediocrity, with no real place in end game (or they have a place in end game, but are totally over-powered by other jobs that fill the same role.) I plan on leveling SCH, but I'm almost afraid to, because unless they give my other jobs meaningful changes, I'll probably only be doing anything on that (besides soloing, merits, and campaign).


Also, fuck yea Bruce Lee.

The point isn't that SCH is a threat; it's that BLM has not gotten an update in over 4 years, and the SCH buff emphasizes that fact. Regardless of what other jobs "deserve" it, it would not kill SE or affect balance to throw us a bone after years of being ignored. Simple things like Aspir II, some new form of MP conservation, and a damage+ job ability would be quick and easy.

Agreed.

I look at BLM the same way I look at MNK. The job isn't flawed, but it could use some attention, if only to acknowledge the fact that Square knows we exist.

[LD]

Uh, no. The only area where BLM is weak is in TP burn, and you have manaburns & can solo much better than most melee. MNK is very strong in merit and things with relatively low level or low def mobs, but is still weak on high level/def mobs with very little compensation for it and much more(stronger) competition in both areas.

So I wouldn't directly compare the two. BLM doesn't need anything.

[orson]

Well Whm got repose which was surprisingly useful. SE did say they were planning on adding new spells (plural) to blm I'm not giving up hope that they'll give us something other then the obligatory retrace. If SE can give /Sch a bit more specifically SS then it'll work for Blm well.

[Kerberoz]

Really, simple things like:

- Aspir II
- Job trait that enhances magic bursts, lvl 37+
- Job ability that increases potency of next spell, lvl 37+
- Possibly a re-work of Magic Attack Bonus job traits:

Now:
MABI=+20
MABII=+24
MABIII=+28
MABIV=+32

After:
MABI=+10
MABII=+20
MABIII=+30
MABIV=+40

would go a long way. All really minor changes compared to the massive overhauls some jobs have gotten in the last 2 years. Wouldn't unbalance anything or take a lot of dev time (well, okay everything takes a lot of dev time lately) and would make a lot of people happy. Sure, the job doesn't need a lot of attention, but again, it wouldn't hurt to throw it a bone.

[LD]

Even if they gave BLM Ultima and Meteor, it wouldn't be what BLMs really want, which is MP efficiency strong enough to allow them to perform effectively in TP burns. New High-Power spells like that would only add to something BLM has been doing before, nuking the ever-loving shit out of a mob. With the MP efficiency of SCH, new spells like this may actually be nice to forever establish BLM as the nuking Gods in this game, but if burns can be defined as exp gain, then BLM needs no additional help here.

Jobs like WHM, BLU, MNK, & NIN need to be made more practical in the area BLM has never had a problem in, HNMs. They're powerful right now, but not enough to be accepted over their superiors if they're available (well, cept for WHM). MNK & NIN are supposedly getting help in this area, probably in the next update, but there need to be more changes like the ones given to SCH; something that allows a job to match the power of the best job in the same role in a significant way without being broken, so they can be practically interchangeable instead of just on paper.

[Nyuneko]

We did get Retrace, making us legitmately a Time mage, along with WHM, I guess? I am starting to call my "Stun" the "Stop" spell now.

Well, it is nice they leveled the playing ground for SCH, they have joined the "another mage" group rather than being a "GTFO and level a real job" group. As for it being a threat to BLM, I wouldn't say as much, perhaps because I have other job(as many BLM do as well), or may be because they still don't have the MAB that we have as of yet. SCH does have more to offer than BLM in many situations, raise II, helix, storm, etc; while, as mentioned, BLM has sleepga, stun and stuffs; so I wouldn't say BLM is getting replaced, but the "Magic damage dealer" position is having competition.

In any case, I wouldn't mind BLM getting some better update rather than making us the new time mage(are we getting Time Mage's meteor?).

For WHM, may be a cure potency job trait that function like attack bonus? Even if it won't fix WHM, it still make more sense to give more improve the supposed main healer's curing capability rather than increasing... MDEF.

[Maxxthepenguin]

- Possibly a re-work of Magic Attack Bonus job traits:

Now:
MABI=+20
MABII=+24
MABIII=+28
MABIV=+32

After:
MABI=+10
MABII=+20
MABIII=+30
MABIV=+40

How DARE you suggest a nerf

People would whine about it as the day that SCH/RDM nuking died.

Seriously, people complain so much about nerfs, that unless they're really needed they wont come

[Kerberoz]

- Possibly a re-work of Magic Attack Bonus job traits:

Now:
MABI=+20
MABII=+24
MABIII=+28
MABIV=+32

After:
MABI=+10
MABII=+20
MABIII=+30
MABIV=+40

How DARE you suggest a nerf

People would whine about it as the day that SCH/RDM nuking died.

Seriously, people complain so much about nerfs, that unless they're really needed they wont come

K, then

MABI=+20
MABII=+24
MABIII=+34
MABIV=+44

better?

[Maxxthepenguin]

People would complain that BLMs need no such boost and it's already boosting an incredibly powerful job, ala the new SAM toy. Try again.

[Nirokun!]

change manafont and benediction to hateless effects (spells casted under manafont draw no enmity, benediction hate free, full hp/mp, remove all status) so that proper mage jobs reflect their wtf2hr abilities

[BRP]

BLM weakness is their physical vulnerability(too reliant on Stoneskin, basically the reason /SCH isn't working out), weak staying power(especially in today's endurance based merit parties and plenty of events similar to), and enmity. Now, these seem like obvious weakness, but they are too strong/potent for BLM to fit in nicely with the current scheme of things. SE should focus on staying power, maybe in exchange for damage.

A boost to damage is pretty stupid fix as it will change nothing(BLM soloing exp and being good at many events) and should be the job of gear and Skillchain tactics. /SCH is a nice addition, but BLM not having any natural defense spells(outside spike spells, but those don't really count) really hurts it(I'd love to see a weaker "Magical" utsusemi with long recast, I don't kow if anything more would be too much...).

There is the other type of job adjustment: instead of focusing on weakness you expand a job's use or improve their unused areas. Increasing the use of other elemental magic could have its uses but not really until SCs become popular again.

change manafont and benediction to hateless effects (spells casted under manafont draw no enmity, benediction hate free, full hp/mp, remove all status) so that proper mage jobs reflect their wtf2hr abilities

Why not just make them immune to damage while you're at it?

[Genosync]

BLM weakness is their physical vulnerability(too reliant on Stoneskin, basically the reason /SCH isn't working out), weak staying power(especially in today's endurance based merit parties and plenty of events similar to), and enmity. Now, these seem like obvious weakness, but they are too strong/potent for BLM to fit in nicely with the current scheme of things. SE should focus on staying power, maybe in exchange for damage.

A boost to damage is pretty stupid fix as it will change nothing(BLM soloing exp and being good at many events) and should be the job of gear and Skillchain tactics. /SCH is a nice addition, but BLM not having any natural defense spells(outside spike spells, but those don't really count) really hurts it(I'd love to see a weaker "Magical" utsusemi with long recast, I don't kow if anything more would be too much...).

There is the other type of job adjustment: instead of focusing on weakness you expand a job's use or improve their unused areas. Increasing the use of other elemental magic could have its uses but not really until SCs become popular again.

change manafont and benediction to hateless effects (spells casted under manafont draw no enmity, benediction hate free, full hp/mp, remove all status) so that proper mage jobs reflect their wtf2hr abilities

Why not just make them immune to damage while you're at it?

Could care less at the moment about the rest of your post, but even you should be seeing the error of your ways by now.

Why BLM doesn't need to be able to cast Stoneskin:
1. When soloing, you don't need it anyway, because you should be good enough to not get hit, and maybe it would teach you how to solo better if you die a billion times.
2. At an NM, your Scholar could actually be doing Accession-Stoneskin and giving you an even better Stoneskin than you had access to yourself. And yeah, a party of BLMs should have a Scholar in it at this point... it's not only a source of damage just like a BLM, but it can give accuracy and MATK, and buffs.

ggkthx

Seriously, BRP, I thought better of you than this. =/

Plus, remember that the MP you get from Sublimation or whatever it's called is stored... and can't you have it stored while you're still at Max MP? And then use it when you run low enough to get the full benefit, then get refresh casted on you? (I think this is how it works, I don't play anymore)

And um, a full MP Bene would be broken. Don't even suggest it, unless you're trying to make some kind of complex joke.

[Priran]

broken like blood weapon?


it's a 2hour, it's fine for it to be a little broken because the recast is so ridiculous

[Maxxthepenguin]

Blood Weapon being broken is a laugh. It was next to useless for years, over the past year or so it's been awesome for a single situation, but other than that it probably won't refill even your own HP, let alone your entire party's.

[Kerberoz]

Why BLM doesn't need to be able to cast Stoneskin:
1. When soloing, you don't need it anyway, because you should be good enough to not get hit, and maybe it would teach you how to solo better if you die a billion times.
2. At an NM, your Scholar could actually be doing Accession-Stoneskin and giving you an even better Stoneskin than you had access to yourself. And yeah, a party of BLMs should have a Scholar in it at this point... it's not only a source of damage just like a BLM, but it can give accuracy and MATK, and buffs.

/SCH doesn't give gravity either... so how do you not get hit solo against a non-joke mob? Wait for stun recast before every nuke? I could see maybe on puddings or wamouras, but that's shooting fish in a barrel, not soloing.

SCH stoneskin isn't any better than BLM stoneskin. They both cap at 350 (380 w/stone gorget) and Accession doesn't improve that.

[BRP]

Why BLM doesn't need to be able to cast Stoneskin:
1. When soloing, you don't need it anyway, because you should be good enough to not get hit, and maybe it would teach you how to solo better if you die a billion times.
2. At an NM, your Scholar could actually be doing Accession-Stoneskin and giving you an even better Stoneskin than you had access to yourself. And yeah, a party of BLMs should have a Scholar in it at this point... it's not only a source of damage just like a BLM, but it can give accuracy and MATK, and buffs.

That's nice, but it's rather situational. Sure it's easily possible to sub SCH, but the same could be said for SMN really(though the benefits are quite lackluster in comparison). In the end, it will be much safer to have independent damage mitigation most of the time. Every job should have their own source of protection or you limit sub jobs(can we agree that's an issue? Seems pretty obvious by now).


Blood Weapon isn't broken. You could say Soul Eater is, but really Soul Eater isn't broken either. The combo of very fast attacking and/or multi-hit weapons, Soul Eater, and Blood Weapon is what is deemed "broken". It's only then balance is thrown out the window really. 2-hour timers don't justify breaking the game for 30 seconds. If they aren't going to bother fixing broken 2-hours, the worst thing you can do is make the game more broken.