Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Cookiemonster]

Ninjitsu is the primary area in need of improvement, as Utsusemi is about all that's used at higher levels.

This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time.

Also, RDMs aren't always available, in 6 man groups, ie missions and xp parties. A ninja may find themselves having to debuff.

I am confused, I was responding to you saying all that was used was utsusemi. Now you are saying debuffs are used a lot?
How is there a problem then?

[Kenji]

Ninjitsu is the primary area in need of improvement, as Utsusemi is about all that's used at higher levels.

This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time.

Also, RDMs aren't always available, in 6 man groups, ie missions and xp parties. A ninja may find themselves having to debuff.

I am confused, I was responding to you saying all that was used was utsusemi. Now you are saying debuffs are used a lot?
How is there a problem then?

I apologize for the confusion. Currently, Utsusemi is about the only one that is used at higher levels, because the others are generally not effective(as your katana), or someone else is handling it. For instance, past lv60, the elemental wheel just doesn't generate enough hate. Ninja may have to debuff, though, if there is no RDM. Getting enhancements like Jubaku: Ni, would help towards that end; a stronger paralyze would be nice. Reading the opinions of ninja more skilled than I(gave in, slowly leveling it to 37 for a sub), those suggestions come from them, as far as what they'd like to see.

[ronin sparthos]

Oh, and finaly, what could really benefit all pet jobs is if they stoped treating them like they don't exist and actualy add Pet Job oriented gear. Hello? Sets with SMN/PUP/BST as jobs please? Salvage really is lacking that. I doubt this will ever happen, but it should've been that way since PUP was introduced.

I agree, SE is pretty lame with the pet jobs in terms of giving them unique rewards. BST is supposed to be this awesome DD with access to some of the best DD gear ingame but the focus of the job has no way to get 'stronger'. (the pets) Where is the gear that makes 'Crab' types hit harder/faster/more accurately? Where is the 'grants en-poison' effect to insects armor? D:

Have to take into account BLMs who are leveling as well. Do we want to limit BLMs to just solo or manaburns all the way up, and thus not have much of a concept of aggro or partying? Plus, SE has said they'd like to make SC's more attractive again, and ToAU camps might be nerfed a bit. Or better camps might open up in WotG areas.

The only way this grand plan for 'reviving balanced parties' is going to be making monsters like Qutrubs. High HP, High EXP per kill, and the only way to get across that point would be to nerf things or to drastically rework the exp formula. Some people are content with solo camps on BLM, others would like to see the revival of a 'balanced' party - point is that in order for balance to happen SE will have to do something like either make the monsters with more HP and str give so much more exp that TPburning is equal to or surpassed by it.

I already have 10 instruments filling up my inventory and would not like any more.

A new instrument for BRD would be awesome, that would allow for more songs so the bar-songs could actually see some damn use. Inventory is moot if some flutes were replaced by the new instrument. BRD just has so many songs and so little use for 95% of them.... id like to see those resist spells actually have significant effect as well.

war combat skill is fine, we do not need A+ in two weapon types when pup can't even get decent h2h skill.

War should just get a tweak in those D and C rank weapons, everything should be brought up to at least C+ since war is supposedly the 'jack of all weapons'. Which translates to 'never use anything below C-' Pup could get an B+/A- in h2h and would still give MNK an edge.

This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time. Jubaku: Ni would be nice but we really don't need the san spells. Throwing weaponskills wont help unless they lower the cost of shuriken and make the weaponskills better than the ones we already have, which wouldn't really make the job better it will just make it different.

Currently id be inclined to agree with you that enfeebling something thats gonna be dead in 15seconds is useless but the point is more to if merit mobs were stronger having a way of potently paralyzing a target w/Jubaku: Ni or poison with Dokumori: Ni (lol) things would go alot smoother. 'Dont depend on someone else when you can do it yourself' is my motto, especially if Jubaku was half as good as the damned mobs that cast it all the time. Shurikens could be viable if they just reworked the npcs prices or make them outta cheaper ingots, it'd be nice to have at least 3 weaponskills for throwing, nothing broken just something of an option.

[Larrieux]

SMN:
- SMN's summoning skill should be A+.
- Retreat should transfer the summoner's enmity to their summoned avatar.
- The effect range of Ward Bloodpacts should be dramatically increased.
- Introduce a number of new Ward Bloodpacts that the SMN has access to while under the effect of Astral Flow.

SMN's summoning skill should be A+: What for? SMN skill as is affects only your interruption rate when summoning and spirit AI. As much as i like not being interrupted in a crisis situation when i definitely NEED that avatar out and i'm getting hit, this is not a common situation. Also, this is usualy related to solo (or near solo, when everyone's laying down dead ) situations, which isn't really the point where SMN needs a kick.
Spirits as of now aren't too attractive. Even with more skill, they are still not very interesting to the majority of SMNs and definitely don't stand out enough to grant a firm position in a party event. Now, when and if spirits get tweaked, this could be interesting. But currently, it serves no purpose.
Note: I am aware that SMN skill affects other things, but it's skill over the cap.

The above statement is partially true. SMN skill affects BP accuracy, damage, potency, and duration of BP wards as well.


From Playonline
The summoner job has undergone the following adjustments:

The summoner pet command Blood Pact has been divided into two categories

Blood Pact: Rage (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use special attacks.

Blood Pact: Ward (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use support abilities.

-Blood Pact will now receive different effects when the value added by equipment or merit points exceeds the skill cap for that level.
*Players can experience increased accuracy when using Blood Pact: Rage or lengthened effect durations when using Blood Pact: Ward. The length of the duration increased varies depending on which Blood Pact is used, but will not exceed 180 seconds.
*A player whose summoning magic skill is lower than the skill cap will not experience any penalties, such as a decrease in accuracy or shortened effect durations.
-Players will now also experience increases in skill when using the Blood Pact: Rage and Blood Pact: Ward pet commands.

Source http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff ... etail.html

Incresing SMN skill to A+ would be awesome.

[Shassira]

SMN:
- SMN's summoning skill should be A+.
- Retreat should transfer the summoner's enmity to their summoned avatar.
- The effect range of Ward Bloodpacts should be dramatically increased.
- Introduce a number of new Ward Bloodpacts that the SMN has access to while under the effect of Astral Flow.

SMN's summoning skill should be A+: What for? SMN skill as is affects only your interruption rate when summoning and spirit AI. As much as i like not being interrupted in a crisis situation when i definitely NEED that avatar out and i'm getting hit, this is not a common situation. Also, this is usualy related to solo (or near solo, when everyone's laying down dead ) situations, which isn't really the point where SMN needs a kick.
Spirits as of now aren't too attractive. Even with more skill, they are still not very interesting to the majority of SMNs and definitely don't stand out enough to grant a firm position in a party event. Now, when and if spirits get tweaked, this could be interesting. But currently, it serves no purpose.
Note: I am aware that SMN skill affects other things, but it's skill over the cap.

The above statement is partially true. SMN skill affects BP accuracy, damage, potency, and duration of BP wards as well.


From Playonline
The summoner job has undergone the following adjustments:

The summoner pet command Blood Pact has been divided into two categories

Blood Pact: Rage (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use special attacks.

Blood Pact: Ward (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use support abilities.

-Blood Pact will now receive different effects when the value added by equipment or merit points exceeds the skill cap for that level.
*Players can experience increased accuracy when using Blood Pact: Rage or lengthened effect durations when using Blood Pact: Ward. The length of the duration increased varies depending on which Blood Pact is used, but will not exceed 180 seconds.
*A player whose summoning magic skill is lower than the skill cap will not experience any penalties, such as a decrease in accuracy or shortened effect durations.
-Players will now also experience increases in skill when using the Blood Pact: Rage and Blood Pact: Ward pet commands.

Source http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff ... etail.html

Incresing SMN skill to A+ would be awesome.

I assume you are refering to what i have highlited? If such, my statement was 100% correct. Also notice that i did add a note saying i was aware of the extra effects, but the skill that affects such different mods is only the skill over the cap for that level.
If this stays true, A+ cap means nothing for these effects.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Eliminate the current system of avatars with the pre FF10 ones. Summon an avatar, it comes out and Astral Flows, then disappears. Increase the MP to 300-400 and vastly up the damage/accuracy of them.

All better!


(jk of course...but you gotta admit Summoners owned the FF series in terms of damage FF3-FFXII)

[Spira]

comon now seraphus..

you could play FFVIII without ever summoning GF if you knew how to junction well. They were only good for AoE attacks.

and... in FFXII i didn't even bother to learn Belias until entering Giruvegan on my english playthrough. Espers are rubbish in XII. XII is like TP-burn mode >_>

[yayajax]

It seems like SE want to do something with weather, in order to make SCH and SMN letting Avatars out more attractive, there should be some work make for the rest of the party members gain benefit from weather. I would like to see Avatar's weathering aura like giving party members weather condition of its element as they are called out, as SCH weather spell goes AOE. (Not sure if this is a good suggestion since there is Accession.) Another side, if SE can create some equipments giving bonus under weather condition, like Monsoon Tekko giving accuracy bonus under Rainy weather, that could make weather spell and Avatar's weathering aura mean something. Some equips like Fire Weather: Attack +15, or Thunder Weather: Critical Hit Rate +3%. This is not making SCH and SMN another COR-alike, they are only abilities to enhance specific equipments. It is working well for mages, Obi, Diabolos Earring and such, why not bring the benefit to the front line?

[Lordwafik]

comon now seraphus..

you could play FFVIII without ever summoning GF if you knew how to junction well. They were only good for AoE attacks.

and... in FFXII i didn't even bother to learn Belias until entering Giruvegan on my english playthrough. Espers are rubbish in XII. XII is like TP-burn mode >_>

In FF12 International edition (which funnily enough only gets released in Japan), the avatars are completely controllable None of the "Keep it out for 60 seconds and then he'll use an awesome move!"

FF12 avatars indeed were rubbish. <3 that battle system though. Introduce gambits to pup and make them better kthx.

[Spira]

comon now seraphus..

you could play FFVIII without ever summoning GF if you knew how to junction well. They were only good for AoE attacks.

and... in FFXII i didn't even bother to learn Belias until entering Giruvegan on my english playthrough. Espers are rubbish in XII. XII is like TP-burn mode >_>

In FF12 International edition (which funnily enough only gets released in Japan), the avatars are completely controllable None of the "Keep it out for 60 seconds and then he'll use an awesome move!"

FF12 avatars indeed were rubbish. <3 that battle system though. Introduce gambits to pup and make them better kthx.

the concept for international since X has been a rather weird one.. It kinda meant japanese version with english VA, and extras that no one else would get. For some reason the JP love this because the whole foreign language thing 'adds to the fantasy'. This game in the form of New grid and Distil + Dark Aeons and Penance in X (altho EU players did get this) and that 2 new DSP creature creation + new snake boss + tower climbing thingy in X-2, and the zodiac license grid in XII.

The fact that you could completely control guest and summon characters in the int'l version irked me tho. They could easily just give you 4 playable characters at once. (The speed button addition was strange). NA players are also lucky that Omega MK XII got nerfed. Yiazmat was still that unnecessarily long fight tho. Loved XII but offensive magic was like useless except on elementals and PLing urself on Slimes.

PUP kinda comes with a gambit system because the AI pattern shifts alot with something to the extent of "Enemy HP <50%" only thing is you can neither change it directly or see what it looks like after you're done equipping the little bugger.

[BerenTebogo]

Fuck job adjustments, where's my final Skyserpent Saga quests?

Skyserpent saga > any potential job changes that could happen.

[The Q]

THF's Perfect Dodge needs to be made into a 15-20 minute ability, and THF needs a whole new 2hour.

[Croaker]

THF: To make THF more attractive to parties and high level boss fights, some adjustments are suggested: Change Perfect Dodge to dodge ranged attacks as well. Calculated Thrusts JA - Duration 1 min, 5 min cooldown - Evasion is greatly lowered and chance of critical hits increased. Accomplice lowered to 3 min cooldown. Passive ability to increase proc rate on bolts, to encourage their use more, and/or ability to use marksmanship weaponskills. A way to dodge AoE if not the target, so as to not be a burden on the healers.

SE's idea of a "chance of critical hits increased" is +2-5%. If it isn't 100% its not worth wasting a new JA on.

I'll throw in some other idead, because I do think SE reads public forums. If they didn't then they wouldn't have given all of the whiney, undeserving THF out there a free THF knife. I would rather see them first buff the old JA to be more usefull. Steal, Hide, Mug, Sneak Attack, Perfect Dodge all need boosts in performace.

Steal- Merits to increase chance. Able to steal any item a mob can drop. Make it based on a Steal Skill and not random chance.
Hide- Merits to give chance to hide from true sight and scent tracking mobs.
Mug- Merits to add status effects such as stun.
Sneak Attack- Merits or job trait to make it more effective.
Perfect Dodge- Make it perfect.

Then add....

-Alchemy crafted poisons that THF can apply to weapons to give poison, stun, paralysis, blindness in varying levels depending on the strength of the crafted poison.

-Dagger Barrage. Job ability similar to Ranger Barrage.

-Distract. WoW Rogue type non-agro ability that forces a mob turn/move to a desired direction.

-Dagger Mastery. Increases damage and chance of critical hits.

-Firm Grip. Merit job trait to allow 2-hand grip on a single dagger.

-Killing blow. Merit job trait that allows greatly increased chance of critical hits when mobs HP is less than 10%.

All of these should be associated with very long and difficult quests, followed by very high merit costs to unlock. Just logging in after a patch and finding a new JA takes all of the fun out of it.

[Kitha]

THF's Perfect Dodge needs to be made into a 15-20 minute ability, and THF needs a whole new 2hour.

Pretty much how I've felt since... forever.

[XxSlusherxx]

Ninjitsu is the primary area in need of improvement, as Utsusemi is about all that's used at higher levels.

This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time.

Also, RDMs aren't always available, in 6 man groups, ie missions and xp parties. A ninja may find themselves having to debuff.

I am confused, I was responding to you saying all that was used was utsusemi. Now you are saying debuffs are used a lot?
How is there a problem then?

I apologize for the confusion. Currently, Utsusemi is about the only one that is used at higher levels, because the others are generally not effective(as your katana), or someone else is handling it. For instance, past lv60, the elemental wheel just doesn't generate enough hate. Ninja may have to debuff, though, if there is no RDM. Getting enhancements like Jubaku: Ni, would help towards that end; a stronger paralyze would be nice. Reading the opinions of ninja more skilled than I(gave in, slowly leveling it to 37 for a sub), those suggestions come from them, as far as what they'd like to see.

The only problum with Jubaku Ichi is the cast time, it's pretty strong. Currently the elemental enfeebles are the only ones that are not used.

oh and poison, but mages don't even bother with poison usually

[Valacirca]

Steal- Merits to increase chance. Able to steal any item a mob can drop. Make it based on a Steal Skill and not random chance.

Steal seems to be fine as it is pretty much, the only problem is that there aren't a whole lot of things that are worth stealing these days. Being able to steal anything a mob could drop would somewhat fix that, but could also result in more trash you wouldn't want in the first place. As for NMs and such with worthwhile drops, it would be kinda cool, but maybe a bit "overpowered" in a sense (woot, I just stole Ninurta's Sash, who cares about killing it?), plus you might end up stealing rare/ex items you have no use for. You can already increase steal chances with +steal gear anyway, although it is annoying carrying all of it around.

Hide- Merits to give chance to hide from true sight and scent tracking mobs.

I don't see why this would have to be merited, it would be better to just let Hide do this naturally (plus maybe being able to hide from sound). The Hide+SATA change from a while back was a nice addition, but is currently too limited for use in a lot of situations.

Mug- Merits to add status effects such as stun.

A Stun on a 15 minute timer? That's helpful. I do wih Mug would do more than it currently does though, if only because Mug has always done damage in previous games. They would either have to make it fairly poweful or lower the timer though.

Sneak Attack- Merits or job trait to make it more effective.

....

Perfect Dodge- Make it perfect.

Wha? I actually don't mind Perfect Dodge as it is really, its always been nice for soloing, and with the new hate stealing ability THF has its even better since any THF can easily get the mob's attention and put it to use. Not that I'd complain if they were to add some kind of additional effect to PD, as long as they keep the defensive nature of it intact.

-Alchemy crafted poisons that THF can apply to weapons to give poison, stun, paralysis, blindness in varying levels depending on the strength of the crafted poison.

Bolts can already accomplish some of those things depending on what mob you're fighting and your ranged accuracy setup, but I'd rather not clog up my inventory to become a subpar debuffer just for access to the other effects.

-Dagger Barrage. Job ability similar to Ranger Barrage.

We already have this, its called triple attack procing on both dagger swings.

-Distract. WoW Rogue type non-agro ability that forces a mob turn/move to a desired direction.

This sounds pretty pointless really... the only situation I can imagine wanting to use it is if you wanted to SA a mob that can't be slept when soloing.

-Dagger Mastery. Increases damage and chance of critical hits.

Dagger Merits: O Critical Attack merits: O

-Firm Grip. Merit job trait to allow 2-hand grip on a single dagger.

-.- That's just dumb.

-Killing blow. Merit job trait that allows greatly increased chance of critical hits when mobs HP is less than 10%.

OK, seriously, you just copypastad WoW crap, didn't you?

[Kenji]

I haven't seen much in the way of a suggestion for what a new THF 2 hour would be. Off the top of my head, here are a few suggestions.

Smoke Bomb - Any monsters aggroed in a fairly decent sized aoe around the THF, stop all motions and attacks for 10 seconds, and then deaggros after. This works against true sight and true sound mobs. If they aggro normally, and you are still there, they could aggro you again.

Crippling Strikes - Lasts 1 min. Your attacks steal stats. Which stat you steal is up to pure luck. But the amount is based on a level comparison. Anywhere from 1-5 stat points stolen per hit.

Poisoning Strikes - Lasts 1 min. Your attacks weaken the stats of the mob. Similiar to the above, but you don't steal any stats, just make your target weaker. Could be more powerful then, 1-10 of a stat weakened with each hit.

Vital Points Strike(stupid name) - Lasts 30 seconds. Your attacks slow the mob's attack speed, movement speed, and casting speed dramatically. It would stack a few times, say up to 3 for max effect. You could switch targets during this time, and try to keep the debuff up on more than 1 target, but you must strike a target within 10 seconds to keep the debuff up.

Adrenaline Rush (name shamelessly stolen from WoW) - Lasts 30 seconds. Thf's attack speed, attack power, evasion, and crit rate rises quite a bit.

Bribe - Pay a mob to drop all it's items, doesn't work on HNMs. Okay, probably stupid, but lots of fun!

If you don't like these, come up with your own! I don't know if they'd give THF Perfect dodge on even a 20 min cooldown, but I suspect a version of it that just ups your evasion rate by quite a bit, would do. They might balance it by lower accuracy or something, however.

[Gabz]

Just a random thought, but wouldn't it be interesting if you could steal temporary items from event nms/hnms, things like dusty wing/potion/elixir, champion drink, giant drink, fighter drink etc. I liked the idea of stealing cells from qiqirn nms in arrapago, too bad they didn't used it more.

Same goes with Scavenge, it should find cells when used in Salvage, when used in dynamis/limbus it could find temporary meds, with maybe revitalizer as a rare find. Or maybe special temporary ammos depending on zone.

Just trying to find some ideas to make these abilities less useless without making them a way rmt could abuse it etc.

[XxSlusherxx]

I don't remember who mentioned this in another thread so these are not my ideas, but they had thf only needing three things

-A+ Dagger(this is just silly that it's not already)

-Native DW(Being as they can't equip a 2handed weapon it's pretty logical, give them up to DW2 naturally, but somehow need to make it not stack with nin/ or /nin if it's subbable would not really matter seeing as /thf generally benifits 2hand more than 1hand WSs. This would also allow for more sub choices, subbing nin would be for defencive purposes while subbing war would be a good idea for offence.)

-Native Subtle Blow (on behalf of tanks everywhere PLEASE!)

[The Q]

In one of the Tactics games Thieves had different types of steals, which would cause status ailments (in addition to stealing gil and items).

I thought it'd be a good idea to give Thieves different steals. Like "Steal Sight" blinds the enemy and gives the thief acc up. "Steal Voice" silences enemy and gives the thief fast cast. "Steal Strength" lowers enemy attack, gives thief raised attack. Stuff like that.

Put the Status Steals on a 1 min shared timer. Thieves really need SOMETHING. They have sneak attack, trick attack, and just recently accomplice which doesn't seem all that useful.

Of course this won't happen, and if it did, SE would put them on a shared timer with regular steal at 5 minutes and make it useless.