Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Lordender]

All this complaining about sch being overpowered is pretty fucking lol when rdm's can completely pwn an Aegis/d.ring pld in the fucking face while tanking with basic gear and an af2body. I am amazed that some people can QQ about rdm not getting their "melee buff" when its already the most broken job in the game that should have been further nerfed a long time ago.

There is no fucking reason once so ever that a rdm/nin should be pwning the most pimped out pld's with basic gear in endgame fights. I don't care how you wanna spin the arguement, its fucking broken.

[Shuemue]

not all RDMs live up to my level, but a fair amount do. If alot of rdms did play at my level, then you wouldn't see whms around at all~, so I guess really it's bad rdms that make whms still around. go figure

Wow, Avesta started posting on BG.

[Baha]

SCH has imho just encroached a little too closely on RDM/WHM/BLM territory to still be seen as a simple jack of all trades.. Keeping in mind most of that opinion is based on reading, and notsomuch practical experience.

-No Refresh, no haste, no larger cures, no WHM merit abilities or spells, not as much mab as BLM (but only marginally so), no stun. Somewhat lacking in gear for whichever role they are trying to fulfill.
+Weaker convert-ish JA to recover MP (but that's subbable), better phalanxing than a RDM's merit ability, better -na'ing than Divine Veil. Protect and Shellra 4 with charge use.

A huge crowd of WHM's were asking for divine veil to be a seperate JA and on a faster timer since it's inception.
Every mage job and their dog has been asking for MP-recovery abilities akin to Convert. etc
WHM's complained when for a lot of endgame, RDM's could easily take their place mainhealing, and often do a better job too.
The demand was there before SCH was released, that's for sure.

It's a decent addition, in the sense that it adds functionality as a subjob too, but the RDM WHM BLM and SMN are imho deserving of some love to put some comfort distance on SCH in their area's of expertise.
WHM with seperate and faster Divine Veil to stay on top of the statusremoving game. RDM Phalanx 2 Buffed somehow. BLM could be improved upon too, but I'm not experienced enough with it to call for any changes for that.

We'll see I guess, with SE's tempo we'll see the next profound update in august or something. :3

[Gilthas]

Though personally I think that the Divine Veil situation on WHM should be addressed, I never understood why WHMs complain so much about getting parties.

My WHM probably doesn't get insta-parties like a RDM but its not like I have to wait long for a party either. Ragnarok must be a strange server I guess.

[Mytiwar]

not all RDMs live up to my level, but a fair amount do. If alot of rdms did play at my level, then you wouldn't see whms around at all~, so I guess really it's bad rdms that make whms still around. go figure

Wow you're so special.
Keep stroking your epeen, maybe something will come out of it.

[Vail]

All this complaining about sch being overpowered is pretty fucking lol when rdm's can completely pwn an Aegis/d.ring pld in the fucking face while tanking with basic gear and an af2body. I am amazed that some people can QQ about rdm not getting their "melee buff" when its already the most broken job in the game that should have been further nerfed a long time ago.

There is no fucking reason once so ever that a rdm/nin should be pwning the most pimped out pld's with basic gear in endgame fights. I don't care how you wanna spin the arguement, its fucking broken.

I agree with this, however as much as I wanted to tank stuff I only ever got to tank khimaira twice and a seiryu once, I've kited kirin on rdm but meh that's easy anyone with shadows can kite kirin. Even if RDM is a powerful tank, most linkshells will never let a rdm do so, or have too many plds who simply don't have other jobs to come on to warrent using a rdm tank. That's the sad truth.

I do completely agree that a rdm with the right gear, mindset, and play style is a powerful tank with basicly buyable gear and some AF/relic. I've passed on 4 rdm relic bodies simply because I'd never really get to use them anyways, atleast for tanking and I'm not a hardcore soloist.

Wow, Avesta started posting on BG.

I don't specialize in soloing, I'm a tank party rdm that makes whms obsolete. Idk who well Avesta does as a tank party whm. He is a great soloist and I'm always impressed and enjoy his videos. However I don't live up to Avesta's solo ability, I have my limits after all.

RDM as a healer has the highest MP endurance potential which is why it can run circles around whm in almost any given situtation.

I don't really feel that rdm needs a buff really, but I do feel alot of other mages need to be brought up closer too (or even equal to) a rdm's level. and why the hell not? it's a god damn lv75 it should feel that powerful.

[LD]

Funniest part is all the additions WHM want are pretty much on /SCH (minus Divine Veil, but that really should be made into a 30-60 second JA.) More efficient curing, 2 very short recast JAs, one of which can lower MP cost even lower, and a new form of MP regen that can be used more often and more effectively than Devotion.

Also, lolsuperRDM. Gunna crush tiamat with your enfeebling cock?

[Shuemue]

ohnoez, tank party rdm, you haste a few people, cast the odd cure and toss slow/para, you're fucking awesome.

[Vail]

ohnoez, tank party rdm, you haste a few people, cast the odd cure and toss slow/para, you're fucking awesome.

it's a wonder to me, because it's not that hard, but so many rdms can't seem to keep up with it all. it's a mystery to me but it's the simple truth most rdms only focus on being enfeeble/MP battery whores.

and I throw more then an "odd cure" since I main heal most events I do these days

I'm not so uber avesta-like rdm, but I am above average, I think that's a fair assessment after all the other rdms I've seen compared against myself. But whatever, ya'll wanna act like I was implying I'm the bee's knees of rdm or some shit, which I'm not. I've rarely tanked stuff, I've soloed some fights but nothing really on avesta's list (other then charbydis, but I pulled it past the gold coin door and dot/kited it, so obviously a much less skilled way of soloing it)

what do you guys want from me?

[Lordwafik]

I'm sure tanks enjoy their 5/tic regen instead of a possible 28hp/tic regen3 coming from a white mage.
I'm sure tanks also enjoy fighting against a RDM's cure4 if shit hits the fan, instead of a WHM's mostly invisible Cure5.


Tank PT RDM is a joke. Got haste? Got refresh? Can you spot heal or spot status heal? Great! That's all you need.

[ronin sparthos]

Ronin, I've covered why none of that really matters earlier. Why do you care about TP burns? You have mana and you can solo better than any melee. Going on like this is like comparing COR to BLM; while they both do magic damage, only one of them can buff, and in a TP burn it will be depending on that more than the bit is has in common with BLM. The comparison is weak, Ronin, you BLMs have really got to get off your "I'm still the best, but I have competition that can do things I can't" Red-hot, fish-hooked dildo and get on with your lives.

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI, much like PvP isnt the point of FFXI - this is a party based game right? (certainly thats why they nerf the fuck outta every solo activity in some way) Why should certain jobs not have the oppertunity to participate in the supposedly key multiplayer aspect of the game? SE constantly goes on about wanting to 'bring balance back to the game' via patches to stuff like SC/MB/EXP/Merit etc but what does SE do? Release a job that comes close enough to BLM/WHM to pass as the real thing without appropriate buffs to draw that line in the sand for the older jobs nor addressing the party mechanic flaws - way to go, halfass fixes - SEs speciality.

SCH needed a buff, but so did BLM/WHM and overall party mechanics. When jobs are forced to solo SE should be handling those issues and providing incentives to play the game like it should be: a party based game. No, not a game where you slap 4-5 DDs and 1-2mages/buffers - a game where balanced parties can do respectable EXP/hr and the option to TPburn/Manaburn if you want remains. *Gasp* Choices. Choices that would allow alot more jobs back into the circles of desired partiers and *gasp* maybe even those jobs that SE shits on every update would get a chance to show the potential people have long forgot about.

Currently, a balanced party is hard pressed to match the run-and-gun tactics of a burn party and that is just wrong. No one wants the age of 5k/hr again (been there, done that) but its easy to see SE has run themselves into a wall with the merit monsters in ToAU. I levelled 3 'ideal' merit jobs and i can see the problem clear as day - so its not like i havent abused the fuck outta TPburn but the whole ideal is flawed and SE thinks backpedaling the camps in WoTG is going to make the situation fix itself - yeah right. I wonder why WoTG is the only expansion pack that hasnt forced people to its EXP camps in any capacity - even CoP managed to get people outta Zilart zones. Thats where this SCH hurts other jobs, not in HNM or events - the grassroots EXP selection process.

'Man lets go exp on Gnoles or Orcs and if thats full we'll go pull Gnats or Peistes'

EXP parties are a huge part of the game and SCH adds to the competition of finding a place in the tight-knit spaces of one. If SE wanted to solve/address that problem, perhaps the issue isnt in making SCH stronger (thats fine, i knew they were going to get tier 4s) but more about fixing the glaring issues that are holding the game back and keeping jobs that could shine from ever doing so. SCH got buffed, but the playing field hasnt changed much else - which is the issue.

[LD]

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Fucking Stop. Right. There.


XD Fucking Hell man, you're really doing this?

[CaptainN]

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Fucking Stop. Right. There.


XD Fucking Hell man, you're really doing this?

He's right thought remember when SE said Beastmaster wasn't suppose to be a solo job? We still waiting on are party buffs so we can party Square

[BRP]

DELETE SCHOLAR AND WHORE ITS ABILITIES TO WHM/BLM/RDM!

SE should hire you. People will love getting their classes and hard work taken away from them. This type of creativity leads to great things.

[ronin sparthos]

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Fucking Stop. Right. There.


XD Fucking Hell man, you're really doing this?

Dude where does SE promote solo play? You think they want BST to solo? They only havent fucked that in the bum because whats left of the sparse BST population would be up in arms. BLM solo? Again - because they dont want to address the issue and do not want players bitching - so they keep it in some capacity, kinda like Utsusemi. If SE had their way BST would have been in parties since 2004 and we'd all be pulling Peistes in Pashow [S] for exp/merits.

Fellowship? Long Timers.
Potions/Potion Packs? Limited to hell for fear of solo play.

SE does NOT promote solo play, they dance around the notion but do not embrace it. Low man activities? Yeah. Even Campaign promotes party play over soloability - thats why Samba got nerfed into the ground and thats why pets can be AoE'd on.

[Vail]

I'm sure tanks enjoy their 5/tic regen instead of a possible 28hp/tic regen3 coming from a white mage.
I'm sure tanks also enjoy fighting against a RDM's cure4 if shit hits the fan, instead of a WHM's mostly invisible Cure5.

already talked about regen, and I think a fair amount of people agree with plds that cure themselves, you don't really need regens hogging up the missing HP

Wearing some -enmity helps alot on cure IV, it's pretty rare for me to pull hate

Tank PT RDM is a joke. Got haste? Got refresh? Can you spot heal or spot status heal? Great! That's all you need.

and yet alot of rdms can't do it, idk maybe your server is different but not many rdms here on siren can completely take the place of a whm in a HNM or endgame event.

so what's the deal? we all gonna act like all the rdms who can't keep up a refresh cycle all disappeared now? or the rdms who act like "if I wanted to main heal I would have leveled up rdm" ?

Did these all disappear? because I still see them everyday

I love how this thread has side tracked cause people be damned if I'm an above average rdm? Or how people wanna piss and moan how it's not hard for rdm to be in the tank party? yeah tank party rdm isn't a big deal unless you're the only healer, then I'd say it is. It's something alot of rdms can't live up too, but plenty do (a fair number of them post here on BG I might add)

being a tank party rdm in a full ally with a whm in the tank party = a monkey can do in their sleep
being the main healer for a merit party = not hard, most rdms can do this

I'm confident in my ability to fill both a whm's and a rdm's role while just on my rdm. Which is why I do 3 man apollyons (SW SE NE) with 2 melee friends.

There are RDMs that can do things I can't, but that's a small portion of all rdms

[Shuemue]

[quote=ronin sparthos]

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Fucking Stop. Right. There.


XD Fucking Hell man, you're really doing this?

Dude where does SE promote solo play? You think they want BST to solo? They only havent fucked that in the bum because whats left of the sparse BST population would be up in arms. BLM solo? Again - because they dont want to address the issue and do not want players bitching - so they keep it in some capacity, kinda like Utsusemi. If SE had their way BST would have been in parties since 2004 and we'd all be pulling Peistes in Pashow [S] for exp/merits.

Fellowship? Long Timers.
Potions/Potion Packs? Limited to hell for fear of solo play.

SE does NOT promote solo play, they dance around the notion but do not embrace it. Low man activities? Yeah. Even Campaign promotes party play over soloability - thats why Samba got nerfed into the ground and thats why pets can be AoE'd on.[/quote:ra5iv881]
Posts: 1218

Best one you've made by a mile.

[Shuemue]

Vail, think where you're posting. This isn't KI, this isn't ZAM. The majority of people who post here regularly are very competent players and don't fit into your little world where you're better than them. You don't do anything terribly difficult.

[evilpaul]

Back then as in what? Pre-RotZ when 5% of the people on these forums played the game?

Or do you mean like 4 months ago when 100% of all the several mage jobs on these forums could have gotten the buff they needed to fill out their roles instead of it being whored out to make a new half-assed job? I never once said SCH was overpowered, I'm simply stating the whole concept of the job is a bitch slap to mage jobs everywhere wanting something new to help further define their role and make them more attractive.

DELETE SCHOLAR AND WHORE ITS ABILITIES TO WHM/BLM/RDM!
There, I'll bold it for emphasis to get my point across.

I just wanted to mention that this is the most stupid thing I've read in a while, and find out if it would be too big to add to my current sig in blockquote form or not?

[LD]

[quote=Shuemue]

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Fucking Stop. Right. There.


XD Fucking Hell man, you're really doing this?

Dude where does SE promote solo play? You think they want BST to solo? They only havent fucked that in the bum because whats left of the sparse BST population would be up in arms. BLM solo? Again - because they dont want to address the issue and do not want players bitching - so they keep it in some capacity, kinda like Utsusemi. If SE had their way BST would have been in parties since 2004 and we'd all be pulling Peistes in Pashow [S] for exp/merits.

Fellowship? Long Timers.
Potions/Potion Packs? Limited to hell for fear of solo play.

SE does NOT promote solo play, they dance around the notion but do not embrace it. Low man activities? Yeah. Even Campaign promotes party play over soloability - thats why Samba got nerfed into the ground and thats why pets can be AoE'd on.

Posts: 1218

Best one you've made by a mile.[/quote:34pp6vhy]

And it was masked completely by its complete missing of the point. What SE promotes or does not promote means about as much as a fly's abortion. The fact of the matter is BLM has the fucking advantage while also having Manaburn (so they get party play). Using this to say they should get shoe-horned into TP burn is a pathetic grasp at anything to make it seem reasonable. It isn't. Neither of my jobs have the option of going in a manaburn despite the fact that I have more than enough mage friends, I don't expect to be invited in one. Why should a BLM get more options when both are roughly equal and I obviously don't have access to their's? I don't need it, I have TP burn.

I really don't understand why you can't be satisfied with manaburn, it's a lot more lax when it comes to job requirements, one could effectively leech. I mean, I understand WHY you want both, but God knows if I said it, it'd just get me more of this mage shitstorm.