Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Vail]

Vail, think where you're posting. This isn't KI, this isn't ZAM. The majority of people who post here regularly are very competent players and don't fit into your little world where you're better than them. You don't do anything terribly difficult.

I don't understand why it even got this far, over "above average" the whole point I was trying to make is that those rdms who are overly competent on rdm can do things that a whm will never be able to do: and that includes doing small man fights where a whm simply is not needed, and a overly competent rdm can fill every need and then some. The whole point is not every rdm can do this though. It's a much smaller percent of endgame rdms. WHM needs to be buffed to fill these kinda roles, or atleast I feel that way, shouldn't the so called "main healer of vana'diel" be the one filling this crazy low man fights?

yeah this is BG, I read stuff here and I'm ooooo and ahhh'd by some stuff that even I haven't done on here now and again. And there are some rdms I do look up to when it comes to be better then what I currently am. Alot of ideas I brought forward to the linkshells I've been in have come here from BG, so yeah there is defiantly some better players on here then me.

on topic of adjustments: whm and blm need some buffs of some kind.

[ronin sparthos]

What SE promotes doesnt matter.

Really now? What SE promotes doesnt matter?

Tell that to the BSTs who get NOTHING but reward timer changes and food adjustments because SE doesnt understand the job needs more and wants to promote this false sense of being 'a master of beasts' when you barely have any control or party applications for it. Tell me about all the times a BST has saved the day in your adeventures in FFXI - oh right, all the BSTs are forced to level something else or get the fuck out.

Tell that to Black Mage, which if your new to FFXI and have the unfortunate choice of picking as your first job will probably be your last when you hit 50 and everyone you've partied with shoots past you because faulty mechanics and SEs sense of 'party play' forces you to solo to 75 in agony. Sure, some people will grind it - others will say fuck it and quit the game - good job SE, this isnt an issue its clearly a BLMs duty to solo/manaburn for all eternity.

The same idea fits SEs misguided conceptions of the jobs that almost BEG the question to if they listen to the playerbase at all. SE promotes PUP as this amazing pet job with customization and martial training but cant wear anything remotely martial. The automaton is powerful, but the master is stuck wearing shit and the choices are so limited your grasping for R/EX all jobs items to get by. You get to 75 and your fucking exicited - then you realize that PUP is on Goliard and that SE knows the job is supposed to be on melee sets because they are convieniently on Usukane.

Ever wonder why AV still hasnt been killed even after that video? because SE promotes the idea that they want to drag this cocktease out till next year when another sundi-made video with another cryptic hint that may or may not lead to AVs death might happen. To hell with what the playerbase says when they want some fucking aid now - not in 2months, NOW.

In SEs eyes, WAR is a capable tank already, the DEF/VIT issue doesnt matter - your supposed to be WAR/MNK using retaliate to tank everything. Forget what the playerbase says when they beg for a way to bloodtank without bleeding out the ass in mana. The players just arent clever enough to see the genius i guess.

What SE promotes is EVERYTHING in this game. If it wasnt so, SE would have the GMs asking players random survey questions about what they feel needs working/fixes/tweaking instead of having them walk around with their heads up their asses about anything beyond 'man im stuck in a wall help'.

If what SE promoted didnt make a difference, they would have left the Samba 'glitch' that made oh so many people happy that SE was thinking of them for a change in an overall 'mediocre' update.

Im grasping for straws to get BLM and half the uncared for jobs back into parties like they should be? More like im asking for common sense for a change, maybe WoTG wouldnt be so empty if SE promoted that idea instead of the usual 'stay the course' that eventually drives them into a clearly visible problem that could have been avoided.

[Shuemue]

LD, you do realise that a good manaburn will make less than 50% of the xp/hr a decent tp burn will get, right?

Fuck your options when you can get 30k/hr on colibri.

[LD]

They can make more than 50% of a decent one too, but decent can be 8-10k depending on who you are. Good to me is around 15k/h, and I've actually heard of BLM getting higher than that, so it's another subjective point.

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Tell that to the BSTs who get NOTHING but reward timer changes and food adjustments because SE doesnt understand the job needs more and wants to promote this false sense of being 'a master of beasts' when you barely have any control or party applications for it. Tell me about all the times a BST has saved the day in your adeventures in FFXI - oh right, all the BSTs are forced to level something else or get the fuck out.

You're a fucking moron and you just proved my point. What SE wants the game to do will never, in one million years, matter as much as what the players make of it and they waffle on what they say they envision so much, you can't really call their word as gospel. You bringing up their supposed concepts is laughable, especially while suggesting they go against their own concept of a job and rework it to fit in a system it was never designed for. This is still all lip-service in a vain attempt to blur the indelible fact that BLM needs absolutely nothing...Fucking Diffusion argument all over again.

[The Q]

You rage, you lose.

[ronin sparthos]

[quote=LD]They can make more than 50% of a decent one too, but decent can be 8-10k depending on who you are. Good to me is around 15k/h, and I've actually heard of BLM getting higher than that, so it's another subjective point.

Solo according to SE is not the point of FFXI.

Tell that to the BSTs who get NOTHING but reward timer changes and food adjustments because SE doesnt understand the job needs more and wants to promote this false sense of being 'a master of beasts' when you barely have any control or party applications for it. Tell me about all the times a BST has saved the day in your adeventures in FFXI - oh right, all the BSTs are forced to level something else or get the fuck out.

You're a fucking moron and you just proved my point. What SE wants the game to do will never, in one million years, matter as much as what the players make of it and they waffle on what they say they envision so much, you can't really call their word as gospel. You bringing their supposed concepts is laughable, especially while suggesting they go against their own concept of a job and rework it to fit in a system it was never designed for.[/quote:1zwc9ysq]

Beastmaster is an original job and due to the curse known as 'Brady's Strategy Guide', the job was FORCED to solo - some players figured out the framework and SE let it slide: that does NOT mean the job is not in many ways flawed to this day. That just means that SE didnt have a better alternative so they let what the players cooked up become the standard.

It just so happened that players worked Beastmaster into a solo job, the job was and still pathetically by SEs standards supposed to be a desired melee PARTY job of some sort. BST has always been a job going against the grain of what FFXI is: a party based game - and because of that they have been hit pretty hard by SE multiple times.

Tell me of all times you've had a BST in PT - all the times BST has been showered with attention and why is that? because SE is STILL on the fence about this job REGARDLESS of what the fanbase wants it to be so they just keep on overlooking it. I can suggest that SE uncaps all the jugpets and allow jugpets to get buffs from allies but because SE doesnt want to accidently make the job 'overpowered' so they say 'fuck you, heres some reward timer'.

The same idea works when you look at ninja: the players developed blinking and SE let it slide - eventually Utsusemi overwhelmed the game and now here in '08 no one plays without it. Largely because they realized bloodtanking was a fucking joke and utsusemi could band-aid the issue. Players can affect the game, yes - but in both cases it was only because the game was in its infancy/SE did not have a defined purpose for both jobs/it helped bandaid an issue of theirs. Tell me of all the times that playerbase ideas have been taken into the game in any reasonable capacity by SE? Einherjar? Chocobo Racing? Pankration? Cheese Sandwiches? Seriously, they take ideas in - ruin them a bit then spit them out and call it 'player satisfaction'.


But again, do not be mistaken - this is a party game and SE calls the shots. The playerbases pleas and ideas come a distant second to their agenda regardless of how stupid and undesired it is which is why many times these updates turn into one or two major changes (This update: DNC AF and SCH buffs) and the rest falls by the wayside. SE makes some changes that are pretty nice, but most of the times its the same old, same old with them which is where i usually bang my head into a wall.

The game is subject to change, but only if SE feels the change is needed - playerbase cries for help get filed like AV, subject to a glance over after a year or two.

Maybe if everyone sent SE an email that said 'Fuck Amoods, they are useless - stop making them' that they would stop putting them into the game...... next year. Instead of noting when the playerbase needs direct assistance, they keep the blinders on and pretend they are creating 'amazing' content.

[Lordwafik]

One day I will read a Ronin Sparthos post, and it won't be a post where he's complaining about this game.


One day.

[Maxxthepenguin]

One day I will read a Ronin Sparthos post, and it won't be a post where he's complaining about this game.


One day.

And that will be the day I read that post until the end rather than reading a few sentences and having the rest blend into a disgusting mixture of salty tears and boiling blood.

[Archimond]

since there was a lack of a correct place to put this... ill slap it down here. related to job adjustments, though goes off on a tangent.

==========================

Question 1:
Reductions to enmity loss seems to be a trait/stat SE introduced then forgot about. Are there any intentions on expanding on this trait/stat?

Paladin:
Trait: Adamant: Reduces enmity loss. (5~10%) [much like the effect of guardian or foe sirvente]

Aegis:
10% Reduction to enmity loss
OR
+5~10% Shield proc rate [its reliability vs. end game mobs is somewhat low]
OR
+10~20 Shield skill [creates opportunity to wear other gear in other slots]

I agree Aegis is a great item already, but mainly thats due to -25% magic damage. Enmity bonuses are lacking behind other standard paladin shields [namely koenig shield], besides taking less damage overall. I've had Aegis for almost 2 years and have used it in real game situations for long enough to know what enhances it needs without it just being a QQ buff me. Also increases to enmity loss could be used for mages and melee.

Question 2:
The ranged slot for paladin is rather lacking.

Would it be possible to introduce a new item for the ranged slot for paladins, Standards?

exampleA: Valor Standard: Physical damage taken -5%.
exampleB: Soldier Standard: Damage dealt +3%.
exampleC: Magnanimous Standard: Regen

These standards ideally would be a passive AoE effect for "ally" within the area (such as Earthen Ward currently does in campaign). This would be ideal in linkshell-based events such as dynamis and einherjar. These would obviously have to stack (this also would increase their usefulness, increase paladins usefulness, and increase multi-paladin usefulness.)

Question 3:
While thinking of the banner idea I realized something... theres no "aura" effects in FFXI. Is there any real reason for this?

==========================

Question 3 actually stunned a little bit when i thought about it. Seems like wasted potential.

Archimond
SapereAude
Garuda

[ronin sparthos]

One day I will read a Ronin Sparthos post, and it won't be a post where he's complaining about this game.


One day.

And that will be the day I read that post until the end rather than reading a few sentences and having the rest blend into a disgusting mixture of salty tears and boiling blood.

Call it what you want, im not here to mince words and give SE free golden pedestals. You can sing your songs of gospel, i'll continue to write down my opinion on things as they come to my attention.

In other news, i now hate olimar vigorously in :D

[Gilthas]

I don't understand why it even got this far, over "above average" the whole point I was trying to make is that those rdms who are overly competent on rdm can do things that a whm will never be able to do: and that includes doing small man fights where a whm simply is not needed, and a overly competent rdm can fill every need and then some. The whole point is not every rdm can do this though. It's a much smaller percent of endgame rdms. WHM needs to be buffed to fill these kinda roles, or atleast I feel that way, shouldn't the so called "main healer of vana'diel" be the one filling this crazy low man fights?

WHMs aren't as good as a mana battery as RDMs, but they're also far from being the hopeless crap of a job you think it is.

Most of the shit your posting seems to derive more from your lack of experience with WHM than actual knowledge, I mean seriously, tank party RDM? The only thing you offer over a WHM is Refresh and Phalanx II if you even have that merited. Now don't get me wrong, Refresh helps a lot with MP issues, but you make it sound like just because WHMs don't have access to the spell low man fights with a WHM become impossible. And this is ignoring the whole part where you think that you're some kind of awesome RDM.

[Oulanbator]

I don't understand why it even got this far, over "above average" the whole point I was trying to make is that those rdms who are overly competent on rdm can do things that a whm will never be able to do: and that includes doing small man fights where a whm simply is not needed, and a overly competent rdm can fill every need and then some. The whole point is not every rdm can do this though. It's a much smaller percent of endgame rdms. WHM needs to be buffed to fill these kinda roles, or atleast I feel that way, shouldn't the so called "main healer of vana'diel" be the one filling this crazy low man fights?

Don't you think /sch buffs white mage enough for these situations ?
The main issues ( effective enfeebles and mp restoration) have been fixed.
The whm/sch even have access to dispel.

No, the whms can't pull mp out of nowhere like rdms do, the white mages can't refresh a whole party, but they also have their own assets ( regen III, cure V, flash, repose, clear mind IV, cure potency, specific equipment) and it seems they can now take that "elite rdm" spot, and that seems to be a good thing.

The scholar can fit this spot as well, in its own specific way, with its own tools ( I'm not sch so I will no develop these).

So in the end, it seems that there are now two jobs perfectly able to replace a rdm in low-men/highly controlled situations.
Different tools, different ways to do things, but the result is what matters.

Maybe that's what is so annoying about scholar : the rdm domination on low men events (and the blm domination on magical damage) are fading... but it sounds a good thing to me. :D


To the people who complained about AoE buffs / status removal spells.
Whm don't need these except in a hand held of situations : 6 men fight on a mob that spams a -ga status ailement.
For low men events, no point in using an AoE for two targets.
For tank party in alliance : no need to use an AoE for two targets, especially with a rdm, a brd, and sometimes another whm backing up. However whm + sch now seems more efficient than whm x2 ( due to sch buffs).
For dd party in alliance : probably the more annoying spot for a whm. Be happy, the scholar will be more efficient here, plus it's probably the best spot for a scholar to use its various arsenal and have an interesting gameplay... so no reason to be angry really.

[FinalJustice]

He's right thought remember when SE said Beastmaster wasn't suppose to be a solo job? We still waiting on are party buffs so we can party Square

I would like to point out to people that BST was NEVER meant to be a solo job. (and yea i know NIN was never meant to be a tank, but thats different) And its problem goes to before the brady guide even. In the beginning BST did not have that EXP charm penalty. And back then a bst in the party was very powerful. SE then later added that EXP penalty, but for the longest time everyone thought this EXP penalty was for the entire party. And thus BST never got invites. BST learned to kill things on their own, albeit for less exp overall. BST found a niche. it took YEARS for SE to try to fix this. And by then the dmg was done. BST got NO updates to enhance it in party settings, and with a small population, a small voice. BST became a solo job because it had no choice. You see how long it took SE to erase the EXP penalty for pets.

they only left bst as a solo job to cover up their laziness, and stubborn ways. Hell in one of teh last interviews they tried teh same BS with PUP. They dared say it was meant to be a solo job (lol). Anyone who plays PUP knows that utter stupidity to say that.

[Shuemue]

Wait a sec, did someone just say Aegis needs buffing?

ahahaha

[Oulanbator]

Lots of players wants a buff of their own job, because lots of players think superiority is more important than cooperation.
More will never be enough for the player who aims at total supremacy.

Look at the blms and rdms whining about scholar ... that's exactly the same, they are worried not to be the best anymore, while SE just gave them a really interesting partner.

[Shuemue]

The BLMs and RDMs complaining about SCH are fucking idiots.

[CaptainN]

Lots of players wants a buff of their own job, because lots of players think superiority is more important than cooperation.
More will never be enough for the player who aims at total supremacy.

Look at the blms and rdms whining about scholar ... that's exactly the same, they are worried not to be the best anymore, while SE just gave them a really interesting partner.

I think its just people have watched jobs that didn't need buffs get massive buffs over the years (samurai comes to mind) and people wonder when it will be there turn. 4 Years is a long time to go without buffing a job, when you seen all the jobs receive buffs. Can't really blame people for feeling that way, some people want there job to evolve with the rest of the game instead of being left in 2005. Like I said before I'm still waiting for my beastmaster buffs, that I know I'm never going to get and thats a damn shame.

[Kenji]

Alright, let's try to get this back on track. I'll go back to the original question: What do BLMs want/need now? Is what I have currently listed, still good? I've found it's usually better to work with the company for compromises, rather than expect to get everything I want. In this light, I do see /SCH mostly solving any MP issues, in places where MP issues matter. Aspir II is about the only other addition I could see them adding here.

However, from reading people's thoughts, BLM could use more utility somehow. A JA to allow a spellcast of a spell hate-free? A new utility spell or two? Give me something. How about a spell that does damage, stuns, *and* knocks a mob back? It's the little kid in me, who wants to see a BLM literally nuke something, and blow it up good. Like a real explosion. Or just add that stun+knockback to AM? Tossing ideas out here.

Going from general consensus and my own thoughts, WHM is mostly good, but with the advent of the SCH buffs, WHM could definitely use more aoe status removal.

[Sanjiyan]

I wanna see something for MNK and RNG. I know, RNG just got something relatively recently, but it's not enough. In the FFXI of today, a pre-patch pre-nerf RNG of 2004 is only up to par with the haste whoring HNM burning melees. They just attack way too slow. Knowing SE though RNG won't be touched again for the next 3 years.

As for MNK, whatever that kick-stance is, better be useful against HNMs because MNK is good enough at meriting, however falls behind on anything harder than a merit mob. Nobody chi blasts these days... While on that note I wonder what they can do to chi blast to make it more attractive to use (aside penance). Decrease the cool down and the # of boosts needed for good damage? Decrease resists? Increase damage beyond MND x10 cap? Decrease the amount of MND needed?

[Fubalicious]

It would be nice to see them make RNG not have to engage for any Ranged WS. Make it an ongoing stance like Velocity Shot if you have to, or Ranger / Corsair only. I would be ecstatic with that.