Opinions for Job Adjustments

[LD]

You're understating it by a mile. Of course its primarily damage, but the difference when it comes to tougher mobs is what separates the jobs so much. The problem is MNK is nowhere near as good on the big stuff, where as SAM is nearly or just as good on the things MNK is good/great at. Further, the applications of a SAM on HNM are beyond what a MNK is capable of while still defending itself and doing damage, because its defensive ability is native. So instead of going /NIN to everything, it can pick between /WAR & /THF to maximize its already good DOT or burst damage, respectively.

BLU suffers the same problem when it comes to SAM, frankly, but it's even worse, since it isn't as good at merit and it has the same form of attack as a SAM in HNM situations, Burst damage. BLU can do well and can defend itself very well, but SAM is still stronger on the whole.


Er...For the record, I never said BLM shouldn't get anything, just that it doesn't really need anything. What I actually mean is that it shouldn't get anything to expand its horizons, just something that would improve what it already does, i.e. Magic Damage. Comet, Meteor, & Ultima would be alright.

[Maxxthepenguin]

You need a SAM when you don't have or can't (or don't care to) support a zerging DRK, its ability to chrun out Overwhelm/SA/TA/SATA WSs produces a lot of damage and hate that can be mitigated with Seigan 3rdeye. MNK has good DOT on mobs like cerb, but it relies more of hitting the mob, and that doesn't translate as well as SAM on harder stuff.

So...You want SAM because it can do the same thing (damage) except better. You could, in fact, use a MNK. Or, if you're worried about TP, BLU or SMN.

Just making sure.

Don't you always want the better DD for everything when its applicable?

Yeah but if you follow that logic, the game will be literally impossible to balance and impossible to fix the problems that you guys apparently have with it. So it's rather useless logic because it will never lead to any real solutions.

[Genosync]

Seriously, the game is pretty decently balanced right now (except for the ridiculous brokenness that has appeared called Magic Mortar, it's awesome but should not be that awesome, I'm sorry. That's nearing the Boost + wait on kirin warp portal for recast > Boost to retarded damage trick from early 2004).

Some things could use tiny little increases, sure.

Currently, every single DD job has its successful place in the game.

Every. Single. One.

Every job is not always the best for everything. The highest melee damage dealer is not the best thing for everything, nor is it truly the highest melee damage dealer for everything. Zerging is intended to be done for very few mobs, and even then people seem to forget other jobs and possibilities exist.

Whatever. I'm not going on a Ranger rant today either, I think it's pretty cool that everyone forgets it exists still.

[Khrno]

You need a SAM when you don't have or can't (or don't care to) support a zerging DRK, its ability to chrun out Overwhelm/SA/TA/SATA WSs produces a lot of damage and hate that can be mitigated with Seigan 3rdeye. MNK has good DOT on mobs like cerb, but it relies more of hitting the mob, and that doesn't translate as well as SAM on harder stuff.

So...You want SAM because it can do the same thing (damage) except better. You could, in fact, use a MNK. Or, if you're worried about TP, BLU or SMN.

Just making sure.

Don't you always want the better DD for everything when its applicable?

But although a top geared SAM has the edge over other DDs, any top geared DRK will give it a run for his money, and in some cases maybe outdamage it and all, same for a top WAR and MNK (I duno about DRG, the 3 in my LS are far from top).

There are different situations and different types of DDs, and it all comes down to what a LS has available, or how they do like to do stuff.

I remember the time when Wyrms needed mostly SMNs to take them down for example, or another time when my LS (and many more) used to only manaburn stuff.

Only HNM i go to as BLM is Aspi, everything else I go is as DRK, and I never waste my spot in the Alliance, not even at Khim, but there I have to spend some gil on Sleep Potions (lol) but It gets the job done nicely.

And as far as MNKs go, they might be missing something to have them up there on HNMs instead of a SAM, DRK or WAR, but a DRK can't go to Salvage to kill everything on sight barehanded and tank Chariots, while a SAM can a some extent, and a DRK or WAR at a lesser one if at all. They are awesome at Dynamis, Einherjar and Limbus too.

[Koyangi]

MNK is 98% fine, the only adjustment they could use is better WS or WS mods/types(crit vs acc vs dmg), our "best" WS sucks compared to DRK, SAM, DRG, and WAR's best WS, especially on all endgame(high def) mobs. WS's aside, we are fine.

[Genosync]

MNK is 98% fine, the only adjustment they could use is better WS or WS mods/types(crit vs acc vs dmg), our "best" WS sucks compared to DRK, SAM, DRG, and WAR's best WS, especially on all endgame(high def) mobs. WS's aside, we are fine.

You don't need a 'better weapon skill' for Monk due to its easy accessiblity to Haste gear, low delay, better damage calculations, and high survivability. Seriously, Monk is fine, completely and totally.

'Oh noes I can't do ridiculously high numbers with my WS', sure, but you'll TP pretty damn fast and still do amazing DoT with it, all the while not dying after only two or three AoEs or getting smacked in the face a few times.
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edit: It's called tradeoffs, basically, and what makes your job different from another and not just a copy. If every job in the game had the same kind of high damage weapon skill, there would no longer be a job that has what is considered the highest damage weaponskill and that could put a job in the 'is not balanced' category.

Wanna know why DRG doesn't have great WSes?

Dude, it's fucking Wyvern can heal a ridiculous amount of HP based on the amount of MP it takes to do it. And they can do it with BLU sj now, and get a piece of Refresh gear. Seriously, that's more helpful than you'd probably understand, because I doubt you've tried having a Dragoon main cure your second Salvage PT (if you go in with more than 7/8 people one night), or other random things they're capable of.

Current Balancing Issues (imo):
Magic Mortar (cap damage at 200% Max HP-Current HP, still allow Light and step up to light, this is due to the ridiculous amount of prep work necessary, would be my suggestion)
Add something to Benediction to give it a little bit of an extra boost (nothing like remove Weakness, but restoring a small amount of MP [like 25%] or doing a PT-only low Raise [that gives back no XP from death] is acceptable, among a few other things)
Manafont (make it completely uninterruptable, aka, make Paralyze, Petrify, Sleep, Terror and other effects of a stopping nature to not take effect until the SP duration is over)
Invincible (Magic Damage -> 0)
Azure Lore (higher bonus to non-Chain Affinity spells during SP, both magic and physical)

and a few other 2hrs that should be on there, that I can't type right now 'cause I gotta go to dinner. I'll post more later or something.

[Max™]

Oh man, I was talking with another War and a couple of Sams in my LS about Sekkanoki and how it's like a mini-Meikyo on a 5 minute timer.

Then it hit me, going by that logic, Mnk should have gotten Desperate Blows, and War should get native Sneak Attack (or some other ability to force a crit, since that's what our 2hr is) which.. honestly... would probably rock too much, but I'd have fun with it.

[Zilong]

Oh man, I was talking with another War and a couple of Sams in my LS about Sekkanoki and how it's like a mini-Meikyo on a 5 minute timer.

Then it hit me, going by that logic, Mnk should have gotten Desperate Blows, and War should get native Sneak Attack (or some other ability to force a crit, since that's what our 2hr is) which.. honestly... would probably rock too much, but I'd have fun with it.

And THF gets Third Eye? NIN souleater?

Would be hillarious, that's for sure.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Am I the only one who noticed that all the people who are whining OMG THIS IS SO BROKEN I WANT STUFF WAH WAH ETC have 2006+ join dates but the 2005- join dates are the reasonable ones?

[Genosync]

Yeah, but I tend to not even need to look at the join dates to figure that out.

I mean, people that jumped on the FF bandwagon later in the run of things don't really understand some of the underlying key concepts of the game, such as "how does all this work together", it's all 'omg my ability isn't strong enough buff plz'.


this game is not played solo srykthx

[Sanjiyan]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

BG join dates are an indication of how long they've understood the game

:bagel:

[Genosync]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

No, but they do give a good indication of how long you've been in the community and involved in what is considered a larger endgame community, who in tern with that time have more experience in the development of endgame from the beginning than those who come around later.

But yeah, it's conjecture. And we really don't care what you say about it.

[Zilong]

This place is really turning into the new zam.

[Genosync]

This place is really turning into the new zam.

Let's get back to topic before this shit gets locked, I want this to end up being my most posted in thread

Oh, and Maxx, get on AIM already, geez.

[Sanjiyan]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

BG join dates are an indication of how long they've understood the game

[evilpaul]

MNK is 98% fine, the only adjustment they could use is better WS or WS mods/types(crit vs acc vs dmg), our "best" WS sucks compared to DRK, SAM, DRG, and WAR's best WS, especially on all endgame(high def) mobs. WS's aside, we are fine.

Howling Fist doesn't seem terrible...

Also, were people really comparing Manaburn to TPburn earlier? A good Manaburn gives about the same EXP as a mediocre TPburn with no BRD or COR in it. (And good luck getting a refresher for a manaburn unless it's a close friend.)

Anyway, I don't think most jobs need much of anything as things are now. Maybe some new armor or improved weapons whenever SE gets around to revamping relics, adding Nyzul relics, etc.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

BG join dates are an indication of how long they've understood the game

The :bagel: was an important part of the statement and you left it out.

I was deliberately misquoted.

[LD]

Because join dates gives indication of how long they've played the game.

No, but they do give a good indication of how long you've been in the community and involved in what is considered a larger endgame community, who in tern with that time have more experience in the development of endgame from the beginning than those who come around later.

But yeah, it's conjecture. And we really don't care what you say about it.

Actually, it doesn't indicate shit, because some people lurked for years before they finally felt like saying something. lolbigkills.

The problem isn't that MNK doesn't have a place, the problem is the place it does have isn't very useful or unique and it's done nearly as well by other jobs (as I've said for the 3rd friggin' time). There's nothing wrong with MNK on the mobs it's already good at and that seems to be all most of you are focusing on or care to acknowledge. Even when you recognize that all of these other jobs can do just as well in most of MNK's best areas, you make it seem like a non-issue, as if meriting was the end-all, be-all of end game. Ignorance of the simple fact that everything a MNK does, at least 2 other jobs can do, but the one thing MNK needs to do to actually be relevant in end game, it can't do nearly as well. No, MNK doesn't need a new WS. It needs exactly what SE seems to be giving it: a higher damage weapon used at the cost of multiple hits while retaining our speed and accuracy. With the properly implemented Kick Attack JA, MNK's DOT on HNM will greatly improve without breaking them or altering them at all in other areas.

The only thing making this place like zam isn't the ridiculous opinions, it's the shit-talking without anything to back it up. That's a cute string of one-liners, what does it have to do with the topic besides jacking off your ego?

Don't you always want the better DD for everything when its applicable?

Yeah but if you follow that logic, the game will be literally impossible to balance and impossible to fix the problems that you guys apparently have with it. So it's rather useless logic because it will never lead to any real solutions.

How is it impossible?
Don't you understand? The point is to make them all as good in different ways.
MNK in DOT, SAM in Burst Damage, and DRK in raw zerging (at tremendous upkeep).

[Genosync]

every single job in the game is not designed to be optimal for every single situation

ok?

thank god, I got the top of a page, maybe people will actually start to be able to understand this