Opinions for Job Adjustments

[LD]

That's your opinion, isn't it? SAM is optimal in every situation where you can hit the mob even once, and that's practically every situation. So I call bullshit.

Being optimal isn't even the fucking point, it's being applicable, no one is asking to be the best here. The problem is MNK is not applicable in this one area, and frankly, even if if it isn't Godly, every job should have a significant role in all forms of end game.

-El Dez "Bitches" Torahi.......Esq.

[Shuemue]

LD why are you being such a crybaby?

[LD]

That doesn't sound like an argument.

[Shuemue]

I'm serious, you're making yourself look a chump. MNK is fine. Sure it could be better, but it's nowhere near as bad as you're making out.

[Genosync]

That's your opinion, isn't it? SAM is optimal in every situation where you can hit the mob even once, and that's practically every situation. So I call bullshit.

Wrong--SAM isn't optimal in a lot of things, get your head right.

Why do you think they nerfed GKT WS anyway? hm hm, maybe it wasn't just because of what the 2hd buff added to them. . .

Things I don't want a SAM in:

A. Salvage - nothx, period
B. Low-man attempts at almost everything - Because SAM/NIN is kinda leaning towards the weak side, and Seigan is not a legitamite Blink... so this includes any low numbers group (2-6/7ppl imo) attempting to do anything that is challenging
C. Wyrms (non-Fafnir/Nidhogg) - You can put in a SAM, and cause more curing necessary than using a BLM or RNG or other ranged damage dealer, which can (and has, sometimes) ended up getting a tank killed if other things go wrong/hectic.
D. Soloing - lollllllllllllllllll
and there's some other things too but I really don't feel like thinking for you!

I mean, really, people are just thinking, way too often, 'hey, this job is good and does really high damage WS' when sure, it does that... but at what risk to our overall strategy, and is it truly that beneficial compared to something else?

Samurai: Minor physical defense, high TP gain ability to allow faster skillchaining for an alliance/party to make more use of skillchain effects. Now, SAMs can even open up a 3-step skillchain by themselves for the epic winz known as Magic Mortar without 2hring, thanks to your new Job Ability.

You don't make the massive lulz happen yourself, but if it's not for you, the massive lulz don't happen. Got it? You're support with pretty good damage capabilities and decent defense, mmkay?

And if I really, really need to break down every job in the game for you with what aspects they fill and what special things are held to them only, and why that makes them weaker in other areas, I'll write you a whole damn paper on it.

[CaptainN]

And if I really, really need to break down every job in the game for you with what aspects they fill and what special things are held to them only, and why that makes them weaker in other areas, I'll write you a whole damn paper on it.

Go ahead start with beastmaster and they wonderful role they play in FFXI.

[Genosync]

And if I really, really need to break down every job in the game for you with what aspects they fill and what special things are held to them only, and why that makes them weaker in other areas, I'll write you a whole damn paper on it.

Go ahead start with beastmaster and they wonderful role they play in FFXI.

crowd control, solo play, comedic value , great xp pt damage (seriously but pends on zone a little)

endgame: for certain mobs they are able to charm pets and toss them at the mob (read: tiamat, jorm somewhat but not really =( ) without risk of player death or something to cure, hateless safe damage

because of its strength in solo player and low numbers, BST is not something that will be changed to be useful in alliances in endgame... it has uses elsewhere.

[Zilong]

Things I don't want a SAM in:

A. Salvage - nothx, period

:/

But I guess 2 MNK is the standard setup for most hardcore group with access to pimped MNK.

I personally had pretty great success using MNK + SAM on salvage...especially when 2H damage was broken. But to each their own.

[Genosync]

Things I don't want a SAM in:

A. Salvage - nothx, period

:/

But I guess 2 MNK is the standard setup for most hardcore group with access to pimped MNK.

I personally had pretty great success using MNK + SAM on salvage...especially when 2H damage was broken. But to each their own.

It works ok, but MNK MNK still ends up moping the floor because of DoT speed and not needing as much equipment and cells as other jobs, of course. But you already knew that.

[LD]

That's your opinion, isn't it? SAM is optimal in every situation where you can hit the mob even once, and that's practically every situation. So I call bullshit.

Wrong--SAM isn't optimal in a lot of things, get your head right.

Why do you think they nerfed GKT WS anyway? hm hm, maybe it wasn't just because of what the 2hd buff added to them. . .

Things I don't want a SAM in:

A. Salvage - nothx, period
Yet, it's been done, and to great effect.
B. Low-man attempts at almost everything - Because SAM/NIN is kinda leaning towards the weak side, and Seigan is not a legitamite Blink... so this includes any low numbers group (2-6/7ppl imo) attempting to do anything that is challenging
That's highly dependant on who you're with and what you're fighting. If they both have /NIN I don't see either doing worse than the other.
C. Wyrms (non-Fafnir/Nidhogg) - You can put in a SAM, and cause more curing necessary than using a BLM or RNG or other ranged damage dealer, which can (and has, sometimes) ended up getting a tank killed if other things go wrong/hectic.
but this is definitely done, and when its on the ground, you're doing better than a MNK would. Yea Chi-Blast in the sky, with that spirit resist, lurn2BLM. :/
D. Soloing - lollllllllllllllllll
as with B, I don't believe one is doing much better than the other
and there's some other things too but I really don't feel like thinking for you!

Not Optimal, but Applicable. I admit I overstated, but the point is SAM can be applied to more situations than a MNK currently can.


Shue, I don't know how bad you think I'm making it sound, but I'm just saying what I believe. I'm not saying MNK is weak on the whole, I'm saying MNK is weak in one important area. It doesn't override MNK's power in other areas, but it can't be something that's dismissed or ignored. The only thing that's really bothering me here is the complete dismissing of the very idea that I might have a point...not unlike what I did to Ronin ZING! Seriously though, I've explained this all in detail: Why Black Mage doesn't really need anything. Why MNK needs only one thing that it's already getting. Why 'Change Jobs, nub' is a poor argument. As long as I can't be proven wrong and I have a counter to everything that's said, I wont stop thinking I'm right.

Yea, I play MNK, and that may have something to do with my verve, but I'm not even ASKING for anything, I'm just explaining why it would need what its getting.

[ronin sparthos]

Crowd Control? I think in my time playing ive had a group want BST for like one/two things: throwing antlions at alastor antlion and/or Tracker Antlion vs Arch Cores @ Tiamat. BST has no defined purpose in the game, even puppetmaster has more practical applications and people love to shit on how that job 'sucks'. (SE really fixed it in terms of uses via healing/nuking and mini-ranger mode - the customization level on pup is what BST should have been)

Samurai is the most versitile DD in the game, there isnt an event where a SAM cant do something - even if thats just giving other people TP if they cant gain it. Wyrms? Run in, TP and gtfo? You dont exactly have to melee them to do damage anyways. The job has a balance of Attack power and Defense power thats perfect for what its supposed to do - Skillchai....er deal Damage.

Monk has its purpose, its good at Einherjar (yeah, no one does it but regardless it can be mentioned) Nyzul Isle, Assault, Merits (merit is a part of endgame) Salvage and smaller shit like KS99/Sky/RMT kings. The only place where MNK pales in comparison is high level kings like Nid, Aspid and CoP Wyrms and its not like it cant do it...its more people min/max and want something more effective. (Though its arguable MNK can do good shit vs Vrtra adds but who kills Vrtra?)

The only thing that's really bothering me here is the complete dismissing of the very idea that I might have a point...not unlike what I did to Ronin ZING!

Cockblock much?

[LD]

Oh, grow a sense of humor, soggy tits.

[ronin sparthos]

If i didnt have one, i wouldnt keep posting would i?

[LD]

I don't try to understand the habits of masochists.

[Genosync]

Whatever, you're not thinking outside the box enough, so I'm done trying to convince you of anything (and it looks like Maxx gave up too)

[LD]

If I'm supposed to be shouting such nonsense, wouldn't I have to be thinking inside the box?

[Shassira]

it's funny to see what people are discussing. It reflects what most of the readers here choose to play i guess? Get back to your senses everyone, you are discussing about MNK, SAM and BLM needing changes, 3 jobs which have excelent and useful niches currently and in some cases they even have more than one.

There's many many jobs needed attention and by no means those 3 are among the list.

You want to know which jobs need attention? Check the alliance the next time you go to your ground camps, your salvages, your dynamis, your lolEinhenjar or your big events that make end game players so leet. Check it out. What jobs are missing on a constant basis? Yup, those are the ones that need a bump, a real bump.
Understand that not one single job should be the ideal on every situation is the way to go, but wishing your job at least has a decent niche is more than acceptable.
For instance, MNK has an amazing niche which is salvage. Other jobs can still do what a MNK may do in salvage, like the SAM coment, i find SAM to be an excelent job for salvage and i many times preffer to have SAM+MNK on a boss than MNK+MNK. The potential SC damage from that combination is sweet, but that doesn't mean you would take a SAM over a MNK all the time. It would probably come down to your actual gear and how comfortable you feel with the job as well as the rest of the party job's. In the end, these jobs are on the status of "situational yet always useful", which is a damn great status to have in the game.

I'll agree with anyone if they want to say that every job should get some love at some point, but the truth is SE is a snail leading the race, so their efforts should be focused where they are needed, not on toys. Well, they should invest more efforts, but this is another matter i guess.

I'd like to point out something though: This argument "Change your job if you don't like it" is very flawed. Maybe some of you guys play for the numbers your chat log throws at you, maybe others play for feeling useful in a fight and maybe others just play a job to get the praise from the rest. But some of us play jobs because we like the potential the job concept has and we would like to see that potential realized so we can actualy be useful like the rest of the people who are content with other jobs. This comes from a BST that would love to have a chance to use the job in end game events apart from our funky LAC fights and coming from someone who has 6 other jobs done, including stuff like NIN, MNK and COR. Changing jobs never made me happy about my favorite job's flaws, it just made me useful in the game... i'd still like to be useful in the game and play the job with the concept i like most.

[LD]

.....The two shittiest jobs in the game were fixed last update, I think its alright to discuss the rest now.

[Sanjiyan]

every single job in the game is not designed to be optimal for every single situation

Things I don't want a SAM in:

A. Salvage - nothx, period
B. Low-man attempts at almost everything - Because SAM/NIN is kinda leaning towards the weak side, and Seigan is not a legitamite Blink... so this includes any low numbers group (2-6/7ppl imo) attempting to do anything that is challenging
C. Wyrms (non-Fafnir/Nidhogg) - You can put in a SAM, and cause more curing necessary than using a BLM or RNG or other ranged damage dealer, which can (and has, sometimes) ended up getting a tank killed if other things go wrong/hectic.
D. Soloing - lollllllllllllllllll
and there's some other things too but I really don't feel like thinking for you!

You're a natural for thinking outside the box.

If nothing else you just so blinded by that box you fail to realize many job does everything a MNK can do, and more. Of course, if MNK is just a merit job like so many people leveled it for, then sure, MNK is great.

[ronin sparthos]

it's funny to see what people are discussing. It reflects what most of the readers here choose to play i guess? Get back to your senses everyone, you are discussing about MNK, SAM and BLM needing changes, 3 jobs which have excelent and useful niches currently and in some cases they even have more than one.

There's many many jobs needed attention and by no means those 3 are among the list.

You want to know which jobs need attention? Check the alliance the next time you go to your ground camps, your salvages, your dynamis, your lolEinhenjar or your big events that make end game players so leet. Check it out. What jobs are missing on a constant basis? Yup, those are the ones that need a bump, a real bump.
Understand that not one single job should be the ideal on every situation is the way to go, but wishing your job at least has a decent niche is more than acceptable.
For instance, MNK has an amazing niche which is salvage. Other jobs can still do what a MNK may do in salvage, like the SAM coment, i find SAM to be an excelent job for salvage and i many times preffer to have SAM+MNK on a boss than MNK+MNK. The potential SC damage from that combination is sweet, but that doesn't mean you would take a SAM over a MNK all the time. It would probably come down to your actual gear and how comfortable you feel with the job as well as the rest of the party job's. In the end, these jobs are on the status of "situational yet always useful", which is a damn great status to have in the game.

I'll agree with anyone if they want to say that every job should get some love at some point, but the truth is SE is a snail leading the race, so their efforts should be focused where they are needed, not on toys. Well, they should invest more efforts, but this is another matter i guess.

I'd like to point out something though: This argument "Change your job if you don't like it" is very flawed. Maybe some of you guys play for the numbers your chat log throws at you, maybe others play for feeling useful in a fight and maybe others just play a job to get the praise from the rest. But some of us play jobs because we like the potential the job concept has and we would like to see that potential realized so we can actualy be useful like the rest of the people who are content with other jobs. This comes from a BST that would love to have a chance to use the job in end game events apart from our funky LAC fights and coming from someone who has 6 other jobs done, including stuff like NIN, MNK and COR. Changing jobs never made me happy about my favorite job's flaws, it just made me useful in the game... i'd still like to be useful in the game and play the job with the concept i like most.

If everyone thought like you, endgame would actually make sense because your absolutely correct. I personally play/played FFXI for the storyline content - huge buff for anything story related in the game - others play for big numbers and to be the *best* - others play to enjoy the game and the jobs they choose and SE should be catering to fixing those jobs that really do need a buff.... a huge buff.

SCH wasnt buffed last update - it was merely brought up to par just as planned. The original idea for SCH had tier 4s and access to the spells it just got - SE just delayed the process to analyze how the job would be taken in a bare-bones form.

Oh and i cant forget the AIM aspect of FFXI - it never lets anyone down.