Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Rocl]

Delete Monk from the game it's pointless

[Kkel]

Delete Monk from the game and give all it's traits and abilities to WAR, it's pointless

Sounds good.

[Max™]

Mmmmmmmmmm...

All the toys of /Mnk, +Chakra, Chi Blast, AND the ability to sub something else?

Sounds tasty to me.

Also: War or Drk with a Crude Sword= Blunt DD.

[Rocl]

Delete Monk from the game and give all it's traits and abilities to DRG and/or PUP, it's pointless

Sounds good.

Even better

[Archimond]

Wait a sec, did someone just say Aegis needs buffing?

ahahaha

Clueless, though you have a prosauce sig,.... and Oulanbator no I'm not looking for supremacy either.

Alright lets look at aegis vs. lets say a koenig shield (though a buckler is honestly a better comparison).

Aegis: High defense, -25% Magic, Shield Bash Effect, mediocre proc rate advantage, mediocre dmg mitigation advantage, no enmity.

Lets break it down more. Defense: negligible; Shield Bash Effect: pretty much useless; proc rate and mitigation: a plus, though not a huge deal. And lastly, -25% Magic: win, and therefore its real advantage.

Awesome so its the best shield, even though it does lack enmity, never said it wasn't. However, there is a returning force on the way back from its banishment to storage (in a mule's storage at that). .....Good ol Terra Staff.

New gear option:
Valhalla Helm/Body/DRing/Askar Feet

Totals: 5+5+10+2 = 22% -damage taken (thats both types (all 3?)) (oh ya...and 10% slow, yipee)

So now that its main magic advantage is useless, its left with a mediocre proc rate advantage (which is still far from reliable even with 326 shield skill), and a mediocre damage mitigation advantage. Like I said before its not a QQ rant, I've had Aegis 2 years which gives me a pretty credible point of view on it. But lets continue..


So the match up now is... A) previously listed gear+the old dusty terra staff vs. B) Hauteclaire+Aegis

A) 22% magic + 42% physical. Both guaranteed all the time, and you get spirit taker which would actually be a warmly welcomed back heh.
B) 25% magic + (29% physical + 20-40% chance @ shield reduction (sorry no exact #s on it)). Shield blocking allows for enhanced Utsusemi usage.

Don't get me wrong, I love aegis. Most people probably won't be able to understand where I'm coming from since they don't actually know what its like to be using it first hand. Those that do will probably agree and they to will see its dominant reign has come to a rather sharp halt. This is the reason for the previously desired proc rate enhancing attributes. A higher, more reliable proc rate, would indeed bring the relic option to its more dominant position as it really should be. As for the enmity, well it obviously has no enmity attribute which is lame, but also to point out loss interest in decreased enmity loss traits. Aegis is a relic, and a defining piece of paladin equipment. It should remain that way, and a buff could achieve that. I find it's just a step shy of what it needs to be now that there are other options.

And as for the standards, any other job wouldn't make sense having it which is why i used PLD as the example. Other jobs could easily have other auras in different ways. Because I used only PLD though thats probably why Oulanbator thought I was zomgahd supremest. Its more the new concept that anything else. And the trait is mainly to again point out the lost interest in enmity loss decreasing stats/equipment (though would be a slightly help paladin's atrocious dependency on VE).

Speaking of which, was surprised on one responded either way as to auras, though I didn't read to see if people were in the middle of somin.

Anyways peace. LOLwalloftext =/... if somins wrong its cause its 5:30AM heh...

Archimond
SapereAude
Garuda

[Ryko]

You're really advocating a gearset with 10% slow.

Edit: no, really.

[Zilong]

...

Can we just lock the thread? I really don't want to live in a reality where people start arguing the effectiveness of Aegis.

[Oulanbator]

Let's admit Aegis isn't enough powerful for a relic weapon, then what should we think about other relic weapons ?

Claustrum for example ... what's the point in the Claustrum ?
The blm relic weapon could ( should ?) be enhancing all blm spells, just like the brd relic weapon is enhancing all the brd songs... but it's not, hence making this relic weapon totally pointless.

Most relic weapons just give more damage power, which is cool, but quite useless since we can expect from people with relic weapons to be skilled enough to deal with a 10 minutes longer fight without atk bonus from relic weapons.

Aegis may not be perfect, but it's actually one or the two relic weapons that seems to really have a useful purpose.

[ronin sparthos]

Relic Weapons are going to be buffed so the hope is actually there that Aegis becomes more powerful than it already is.

Well whenever the Nyzul Relics are released, the hope is that SE goes over the crappier weapons like Claustrum and brings them up to 2008 standards. (all8HQelemental staves combined + fluff perhaps?)

They at least mentioned this, so its fully possible they might tack some enmity on the Aegis.... or make the relics glow or something. Like that dynamis aura would be pretty sweet.

....and why the hell doesnt bard get a visible relic horn fulltime? something like slung over an arm or something.

[Guitarman]

...and why the hell doesnt bard get a visible relic horn fulltime? something like slung over an arm or something.

PS2 limitations. :bagel:

[neochaos]

I was under the impression that the 200+ shield bashes with Aegis generated enmity...lots of it. Regardless, my opinion still holds true that PLDs who upgrade excal b4 Aegis suck :/ (what with Excal not doing any hate generation either) way to go SE.

[Mytiwar]

New gear option:
Valhalla Helm/Body/DRing/Askar Feet

Point me someone with all those.
I mean seriously. This is uncommon to say the least.

[Spider-Dan]

Velocity Shot "fixed" RNG? Surely ye jest.

As of right now, RNG is essentially the-poor-man's-SAM on everything except DL. RNG badly needs one of three things:

1) march and haste spell receive corresponding +snapshot bonuses
2) Rapid Shot (and all +Rapid Shot merits/gear) is replaced with Double Shot
3) 20/40/60/80% Recycle traits, at LV10/30/50/70

[Sanjiyan]

Changing EES so it isn't a slugwinder -1 and can't miss wouldn't be too bad either.

In fact, a revamp of certain 2 hour abilities in the game would be great.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If rapid shot was replaced with double shot you would have rangers whining about how fast ammo gets consumed without you wanting it to.

[Sanjiyan]

Hence,

3) 20/40/60/80% Recycle traits, at LV10/30/50/70

As much as I'd hate to destroy the ammo crafting market for the woodworkers (assuming it's even still profitable), paying for arrows is still a large part of RNGs that makes people turn away from the job. Any changes that makes RNGs shoot faster in order to keep up with other jobs in DoT and damage only makes costs worse. Changing it is the first step in making the job more attractive.

Quivers is a nice idea, but between bow/crossbow/gun, it's still a pain to carry multiple quivers not to mention an extra space to unquiver each ammo. I still find ammo takes like 10 inventory spaces, if not more. Maybe something can be done about that.

Recycle should also be made to be able to proc on barrages, and/or just make all barrages (or double shot) consume 1 arrow.

I'd also love a change to CP arrows so they can't be shot accidentally and disapper along with 48k CP. It's hard enough to get CP these days.

Make scavenge useful, higher success rate, and instead of just shitty low level arrow crafting material, make it scavenge up ammo you were using in similar numbers like rotten quivers/bullet boxes, or 10-15 pieces of ammo. Of course to prevent abuse maybe implement ways for the game to detect if you are actively using the ammo or not.



Even if they don't improve RNG damage, the above combined would personally make me play RNG a lot more often.

[Spider-Dan]

If rapid shot was replaced with double shot you would have rangers whining about how fast ammo gets consumed without you wanting it to.

Well, notwithstanding the fact that you're going to have people whining regardless of what you do/don't do, I think that if there were a Hasso-like mode that allowed you to fire two shots on every /ra, most RNGs would never turn this mode off.

The issue isn't really ammo costs as much as it is "getting what you pay for." I don't subscribe to the RNG-should-do-the-most-damage-because-they-spend-the-most logic, but if RNG is going to be just another niche DD with situational pros and cons (note: this is perfectly fine with me), why should they be hemorrhaging gil to do it?

[zoobernut]

A change to EES would be a great thing. It should at the very least do more dmg than a regular ws. Maybe make it ignore defense and level differences? Also having haste effect ranged attacks would be a great idea too.

As for the 2hr revamp idea it would be nice if thief got the 2hr update that was mentioned a very long time ago, it would be nice if thf 2hr had some use in a situation besides saving your own ass. Though Accomplice did help this a bit you can accomplice -> 2hr and hopefully hold hate for the duration. I still think thf 2hr needs something else going for it.

[Genosync]

You're a prime candidate for thinking outside the box

Yeah, um...

if we're going to take my MNK MNK tank setup in Salvage as that's the only thing I used and the only thing I tried, you're dead wrong.

Things I've tried tanking Chariots on or with:
SAM (hiiii)
BLM/NIN (galkas onry, but you can always try the challenging BLM hate bounce method, and by this BLM/NIN statement as a tank I do mean, straight up tank)
BLU
NIN (this was funny actually)
MNK
WAR
PLD
DRK
WHM/NIN (lulz, at least it was funny, even if the person who tried wasn't that great)
RDM (yep, I nuke tanked that bitch)
Avatars (not joking)
THF (multiple thieves, SA+TA spammage)

Please tell me where I've failed to think outside the box there.

How about tanking a Poroggo Madame with automatons. kthxw?

Every night, we split our group up into two seperate runs, and in some nights I had to come up with tricks in order to split things up and try some new ideas that I/my group came up with. Sorry to take really only Salvage into this (as it's what I feel I'm the most qualified in to speak about, but I have done everything else in the game anyway), because it's not only Salvage.

I'm a fan of pulling in Dynamis with BLMs, rather than any other job, but I've switched up different things based on the current situation and death pulls and that nonsense.

I do think outside the box--however, it's always more beneficial to use the job that is most optimal for the situation, in your own experiences. After trying everything possible, I then settled on MNK MNK for my Salvage runs.



Switching to the RNG thing:

Ranger's completely fine as is currently. Velocity Shot gave a decent boost to a RNG's ranged damage dealing, which is where the job really shines. You can sit outside of range, deal constant damage over time (at the cost of slightly higher mob TP than a BLM, yes, but that's of minor consequence), rapidly gain TP with Barrage while dealing burst damage, high WS DMG, the ability to deal a really high amount of damage in under 10 seconds (WS, Barrage, EES, WS, wing, WS), and the extremely useful JA Shadowbind puts Ranger in a unique position.

Being able to stand out of range and deal constant damage over time without taking any damage from AoE is something that should come with minor consequences, and those are accounted for in the length of time it takes to shoot arrows/bolts/bullets.

Quit freaking whining about it--you're never going to do as much damage as a DRK or a WAR over a greater period of time, but the only thing that can match your burst damage right now outside of SE BW Kclub or Ridillz or gimpKris is stupid Magic Missle. er, Mortar. And unlike MM, you only need 100tp to get started and no other conditions.

Did I mention Shadowbind?

Oh, yeah, Shadowbind. Oh, and yeah, those new THF JAs are pretty epic too for helping out ranged DD. Had a THF spam Accomplice on me once when fighting Long Bowed, it was pure bliss.

wah wah ranger is weak, give me a break, and shut up.

[Sanjiyan]

Too bad the sweet spot for all ranged weapons is still within AoE range. Why should we have to choose between standing far away and take a hit in ranged accuracy and attack, and being in AoE range anyway?

Why take a hit in ranged accuracy and attack when far away in the first place?

RNG DoT is unmatched! We're second to only MNKs. RAWK.

E-thugging on the net. Go you! Bigger fonts makes you right!