Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Genosync]

LOL Oh wow.

As soon as one e-thuggin' rageaholic who is always right leaves, another one immediately steps in to take their place.

Excuse me, but I've kinda been around here for almost four years, and even if I don't play anymore (finally quit & sold char in January), I still feel like I need to show people that they're making idiot assumptions based on extremely little to zero personal experience.

[Sanjiyan]

I didn't mind spending money on ammo in the end, once I noticed that what I was able to do on Ranger was a big contribution overall due to the safety of the damage and also the ability to fix things in a clutch.

I still don't get why you keep thinking RNG can fix things in a clutch. They can't fix shit in a clutch and the only thing they are great at doing is dying after unloading some spike damage that every class seem to be able to do these days.

OH NO I DON'T DO THE HIGHEST DAMAGE IN THE GAME AND I'M SPENDING MONEY TO DO IT, GOD HELP ME

I also don't get why you are dwelling on the point that anyone here is asking for RNG to be doing the highest damage. WHO SAID THAT? Quote it. All I want is some more tweaks and perks, things to make the job more attactive. Didn't I already say as long as they can increase the ranged attack speed a bit more, and reduce some associated costs with ammo spamming, that I'd be happy even without them increasing the damage on shots? Lern 2 reed mkay.

edit: forgot something important I want to say, like the fact that I didn't have a kriegsbeil, I didn't have an ebow (cobra unit bow works, selene's is ok, gendawa+1 kinda), you can get fucking Scout's Braccae or w/e, or get some epic win Skadi's Trousers because Store TP+7 is AMAZING when RATKing, not to mention the RATK and RACC on them, and go farm sky like the noob you seem to be with your LS (which based on your posts is probably a noob sky LS anyway) and get yourself your own damn osode. quit fucking whining, the only thing I had out of that whole list you made was an osode anyway.

It seems like I currently have much better gear than you ever did, and what does gear have to do with any of this? Not likely the few really epic gear I'm missing is going to change things much.

RNG IS THE NEW DRG
oh one more thing, try eating meat on RNG, and using a little bit more ACC gear, it works purdy gewd

You know what, you're finally right. RNG probably is the new DRG, or close to it attitude wise. How many RNGs do you see out there actively playing right now? Not much. I never understood "lolDRG" from way back, and thought their potential was untapped, getting shafted with shitty gear choices and all. But you know what? When I can barely get two to three shots off before the mob die in anything easier than HNMs, that's when I start thinking "maybe this job could still use a little more".

One more thing.... DUH.

Good night and good riddance.

[Shuemue]

Seriously, you're a fucking shitty RNG if you think you're the new DRG.

[FinalJustice]

I dont even think thats what he was saying.....

[Shuemue]

I dont even think thats what he was saying.....

Perhaps I've started tuning out the majority of his words because they're just a sea of tears.

[FinalJustice]

yea, but you cant ignore some of his points are valid.
In fact many people on here have valid points. People just need to work on better ways to express them I guess.

[Max™]

I thought Drg could actually like... rape shit now... shouldn't that be Rng is the new Pup... OH WAI- *gets magic mortared into oblivion*

[Shuemue]

This is true, mountains are being made of molehills. This game is intended to be cooperative, it doesn't matter if jobs aren't absolutely balanced as long as everyone is able to play a worthwhile role in several situations. Almost every job CAN make themselves useful, so play whichever job you enjoy and compromise with your allies to make an event work.

[FinalJustice]

Yes, all that is true and great and all. But theres no reason people shouldnt be able to "DISCUSS" ways and ideas to improve jobs that have slightly fallen behind in one way or another, without constant arguments like these. Some say balance is not important, but some say theres no reason balance "shouldn't" be important. Especially when said ideas arent even unreasonable to begin with.

[Genosync]

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:17 pm
Posts: 555

shut the fuck up, and quit trying to tell me I'm not allowed to express myself like this when people do not listen and do not have their own, firsthand knowledge of the situation. I hate pulling this card, but I've been around here too long to take crap from you.

and apparently none of you got my sarcasm, which was so blantantly obvious near the end of my post.

Let's analyze this:

'RNG IS THE NEW DRG'

Ok, there was some sarcasm there, in comparing RNG to what DRG can do, mainly dealing with damage. Yeah, RNG isn't anywhere close to the damage DRG can deal.

Now, sarcasm being over, I'm trying to say that in people's heads, RNG is the new DRG.

What has happened over and over again in FFXI history? There's always been one or two jobs that are just singled out by the community as being ridiculously weak.

At first, we had the DRK & DRG issue. Once the crazy TP return from WS was fixed, people just started saying DRG sucked because they were XPing on crabs and shit like that, and common community consensus was that you don't invite DRGs to your XP pt. DRK a little less so, but still widely thought of as a completely inaccurate job and one you don't want to XP with in most cases either.

So, eventually people started to see 'omg look at SE BW dmg multihit weapon rune chopper' blah blah, more people leveled it. However, before this even happened, there were a few really good DRKs that surfaced and some people finally saw the light (like me). Then it led those of us that saw it before the SE BW zerg bullshit to maybe take a little bit better of a look at DRG, and you kinda got to figure out that it wasn't that bad, and just that we were using it in very poor situations for the job. DRG's pretty freaking buff, you know.

And to top it all off, there was the 2hd weapon buff (which needed to be done, but the few months of crazy damage was a little bit more than it should have been imo), and that led more people to play the jobs and the opinion of said jobs in the community changed.

Long story short, do you now see where I'm saying RNG is the new DRG?

Community opinion is it sucks, very few people have actually investigated it fully first hand, very few linkshells will actually allow people to come on it because they read it's not good damage/strategy because it doesn't rape the shit out of a mob.

Do you get what I was trying to say now? Go put every single concept dealing with RNG in your head, right now, in the fucking trash. Then go play it/have someone else play it, properly, in the way it's been recently described to you, typically in a slightly lower numbers group (8-10ish) or at something with nasty AoE (like Cerb), take a look at it in XP again (if I'm getting a bard in a merit party and I'm getting march, I can still top the parser at times with rarely ranged attacking and meleeing with my dagger/fran, gear yourself better and eat meat, damnit), try different things, and stop taking the common public opinion as fact.

That being said, I'm done posting in this thread, say whatever the hell you want about it. It's not like I'm expected to share my knowledge of jobs and the game's mechanics in general with you, especially when you don't want to try anything new and are happy with just going with the same lazy, stupid shit, and think that the only way to perform better on a job is a buff in the system.

[FinalJustice]

Oh please... the fact that youre trying to use BG join dates in your argument show how stupid and pathetic youre being. Leave it to 2 people to shit up a thread real fast.
So allow me to stoop to your level for a post.

MAKE ME shut the fuck up!!! Let's see how far your E thugnees gets you. Im not even bothering to read your lame as hell ESSAYS.

EVERY job should get periodic updates, End of fucking discussion. This thread is titled "Opinions for Job Adjustments", if you don't like people talking about the jobs you think are perfect ... who gives a fuck. Stop Nazing your fucking WALL of Text essays in our face. Fucking SAM a job thats strong in just about every situation STILL is getting updates. WTF shouldn't everyone else?? You sold your character yet make text book posts in teh game you say you dont even play anymore. Who gives a shit what you have to say?? Go ahead. Post more text books that i won't read. Youre making mountains out of fucking mole hills with retarded analogies and convenient self made logic, as if you have insight on what the fuck SE has intended, and its piss poor pathetic.

And i love how you like to pull LOLstrengths out yoru ass just to justify said jobs not deservingany kind of update along with eveyone else. So because SMN can Hate free throw Diabolos at stuff means they should get no update? Hate sure doesnt stop ppl from throwing BLMS at things now does it? LOLcrowd control for Bst?? Outside AOE range RNgs??? Are you fucking serious?

[CaptainN]

That being said, I'm done posting in this thread, say whatever the hell you want about it. It's not like I'm expected to share my knowledge of jobs and the game's mechanics in general with you, especially when you don't want to try anything new and are happy with just going with the same lazy, stupid shit, and think that the only way to perform better on a job is a buff in the system.

You sir need to get off your high fucking horse, you think cause you got a maat's cap that you know everything about every job and how to use it absolute bullshit. Your ways are far from absolute, while rangers do have there small uses in TP-burn HNM outside of those ranger really serves no real purpose. And thats fine they don't need to be useful in every situation as far as end game is concerned. But end-game doesn't make up alot of what FFXI is, exping/merit is what people do 75% of there time in game. And thats were ranger is weak compared to alot of other jobs, and thats were people want a small upgrade. Personally all i want is my 2004 accuracy back, ranger is suppose to be the most accurate job in the with 4 accuracy traits but we seem to whiff the most out of any job on our WS and thats bullshit. There isn't anything wrong with admitting the faults of the various job in this game, which is something you seem to have a problem with.

crowd control, solo play, comedic value , great xp pt damage (seriously but pends on zone a little)

endgame: for certain mobs they are able to charm pets and toss them at the mob (read: tiamat, jorm somewhat but not really =( ) without risk of player death or something to cure, hateless safe damage

because of its strength in solo player and low numbers, BST is not something that will be changed to be useful in alliances in endgame... it has uses elsewhere.

This post is just bullshit, crowd control at tiamat is Beastmaster endgame role? Gimme a break any job sub /nin can kite mobs at tiamat. Comedic value? I'm glad you think a job that needs serious when it comes to its usefulness in the FFXI community is funny. The only thing you got right in this post is solo play and even then alot of beastmaster would like to be able to join exp parties. You would have done better just admitting Beastmaster is a flawed job and is one of the FEW jobs that really needs updates to its gameplay, but instead you made it seem like they should be happy with what they have.

[Max™]

Just had to add: I am quite enjoying Retaliation, as it's the first direct buff I've gotten in my career as a Warrior, it combined with the 2h update has made me retardedly happy lately. Best part being that it doesn't seem terribly broken, and so won't be nerfed into oblivion.

Join Dates are moot, they're just when people either found their way here to this oasis of facts and information, asshole populated as it may be (hey, we're almost all asses at some time), or when they decided they had something to say and signed up the first time.

What will you bring up next, post counts? Here's a hint from someone schooled in the ways of Post Fu, they don't mean anything either (have over 17,000 posts under my belt on my P&P RPG board) so stick to the information at hand.

I do have one thing to say about comedic value, nearly any job can give it, though I do love my sky shells token Rng Birdei, because he has taken to going Rng/War for Gods lately, since he's up there to have fun/shadowbind during 2hrs just to make things simpler, and it is completely and utterly fucking hilarious to watch him start a fight, dump TP/barrage/TP, wait a second thinking he's safe, drop party, and then 2 seconds later Byakko dashes over, eats him with a triple attack, then runs back to the tanks.

Get a lot of laughs when I forget to TA my opening Warrior's Charged WS too, best part is when I first take damage and a cure gets chucked at me, and all I have time to do is say "just swap someone else in, I'm..." and die.

[Spider-Dan]

Then I think sometime in 2006? They changed the RAtk calculations again, giving Ranger a slight bit better of an outlook... and no one really still picked it back up. Of course, you had the life long Rangers (such as myself, and a few others that haunt BG from time to time, I'm sure Beckwin will end up ringing in on this thread soon) who wanted to go and take it for a spin for a little, and they saw some benefits from it but not a lot, and most linkshells, forums, and people in general were still stuck in the 'omg RNG sucks' mindset and wouldn't have anything to do with it.

That's because the 2006 "un-nerf" was barely effective at all. It was like going from "both of your arms are chopped off" to "one hand is tied behind your back." It replaced a straight damage penalty with an RATK penalty. That's an improvement (in the same sense that a nail in your tire tread is an "improvement" over having your sidewalls slashed), but it still isn't actually good.

Then we got the epic Velocity Shot, making Ranged Attacking even better, at the cost of nerfing melee damage and speed.

They've already buffed it back up twice. It's at a really good level right now and it's really, really balanced. I didn't mind spending money on ammo in the end, once I noticed that what I was able to do on Ranger was a big contribution overall due to the safety of the damage and also the ability to fix things in a clutch.

I love how you go on and on about the wonderful safety of ranged damage (at a range where said damage is significantly gimped) at the same time you diss 2h/THF for its pathetic damage output. Doesn't tricking 1-1.5k WSes on a tank improve the safety of a fight? Hmmm.

edit: forgot something important I want to say, like the fact that I didn't have a kriegsbeil, I didn't have an ebow (cobra unit bow works, selene's is ok, gendawa+1 kinda), you can get fucking Scout's Braccae or w/e, or get some epic win Skadi's Trousers because Store TP+7 is AMAZING when RATKing, not to mention the RATK and RACC on them, and go farm sky like the noob you seem to be with your LS (which based on your posts is probably a noob sky LS anyway) and get yourself your own damn osode.

So basically, RNG is cheap to gear because your RNG was geared cheaply. OK.

P.S. I liked Cobra Unit Bow a lot better when it was called Master Caster's Bow and came out 4 years ago.
P.S.S. 2005 called, they want their Gendawa+1 theories back. Perhaps you believe it's good because IT IGNORES RATK CAPS D00D? That bow is utter trash, end of line.

edit2: oh one more thing, try eating meat on RNG, and using a little bit more ACC gear, it works purdy gewd

Oh, really? I've been eating pies this whole time! Thanks for the ProTip!

Your advice is utterly useless (when it isn't outright wrong; stop firing so much like an idiot? THANKS, I'LL GET RIGHT ON THAT). It's this kind of non-response that is so tiresome (and yet so predictable), which is specifically why I added the third option of "recycle traits out the ass". If you think that RNG's niche is acceptable, that's fine, but there is no logical justification for RNG's expense.

For the third time: if I'm going to sit in the nosebleeds (and I personally have no objection to this; RNG had its time in the spotlight), why the f*ck am I paying for courtside tickets?

Instead of arguing why you don't think RNG deserves a buff (an argument that everyone knows will go nowhere; see: the first 30 pages of this thread), why don't you explain exactly why you believe RNG is entitled to spend way more than everyone else?

[Lordender]

lolbst crowdcontrol @ tiamat, 2-3 blms can stop nuking tiamat and could control every possible add that comes granted you have the ballads for it which you should anyway when its one of those days where everything wants to aggro.

[Sanjiyan]

I like how people who has the attention spam of a ferret on crack and can't read more than one sentence say that people with legit reasons and modest suggestions for adjustments are "QQ"ing. I rather think they are the ones QQing because we're making legit points and they can't think of any rebuttal against it and resort to using the most over used expression on BG for the past year as a form of "insult".

gg you win at teh internet.

[Shuemue]

http://www.adsoft.org/images/wanker.gif

[Spider-Dan]

One more thing:

Go put every single concept dealing with RNG in your head, right now, in the fucking trash. Then go play it/have someone else play it, properly, in the way it's been recently described to you, typically in a slightly lower numbers group (8-10ish) or at something with nasty AoE (like Cerb), take a look at it in XP again (if I'm getting a bard in a merit party and I'm getting march, I can still top the parser at times with rarely ranged attacking and meleeing with my dagger/fran, gear yourself better and eat meat, damnit), try different things, and stop taking the common public opinion as fact.

NUFF SAID

[Redshift]

Just had to add: I am quite enjoying Retaliation, as it's the first direct buff I've gotten in my career as a Warrior, it combined with the 2h update has made me retardedly happy lately. Best part being that it doesn't seem terribly broken, and so won't be nerfed into oblivion.

Join Dates are moot, they're just when people either found their way here to this oasis of facts and information, asshole populated as it may be (hey, we're almost all asses at some time), or when they decided they had something to say and signed up the first time.

What will you bring up next, post counts? Here's a hint from someone schooled in the ways of Post Fu, they don't mean anything either (have over 17,000 posts under my belt on my P&P RPG board) so stick to the information at hand.

I do have one thing to say about comedic value, nearly any job can give it, though I do love my sky shells token Rng Birdei, because he has taken to going Rng/War for Gods lately, since he's up there to have fun/shadowbind during 2hrs just to make things simpler, and it is completely and utterly fucking hilarious to watch him start a fight, dump TP/barrage/TP, wait a second thinking he's safe, drop party, and then 2 seconds later Byakko dashes over, eats him with a triple attack, then runs back to the tanks.

Get a lot of laughs when I forget to TA my opening Warrior's Charged WS too, best part is when I first take damage and a cure gets chucked at me, and all I have time to do is say "just swap someone else in, I'm..." and die.

This may come to you as a shock, but there's a lot more to the game than WAR, Great Axe and lolsky.

[Max™]

Wow, were you just sitting there waiting for that opportunity?

I made a post about goddamn comedic value, contributed a couple personal anecdotes about how any job can contribute the lulz, not just Bst, and you turn it into that.

/golfclap