Opinions for Job Adjustments

[fantasticdan]

Does it increase your counter-rate with seigan/third-eye up, or are they separate checks?

[Priran]

Seriously? Personally I keep wishing SE hadn't added the -movement effect on it and had just made it a job trait. For almost everything its benefits are so marginal that its annoying to have to recast it every 3 minutes.

Since it can only proc when you actually get hit its uses are limited to soloing weak crap or if for some odd reason you're bloodtanking something. In normal situations we're supposed to avoid getting hit, so optimally, it should never get a chance to proc. To me Retaliation is barely ahead of Zanshin, "another" job trait that optimally should never get a chance to proc.

Annoys the hell out of me that after the marginal use of our group 2 merits we get a new Job Ability that's so underwhelming. I'm not asking for something that would increase our damage output, but I did wish we got something that had an actual effect instead of something that I need to be constantly recasting yet only see proc 10 times tops per hour (hell, yesterday in dynamis I think I only saw it proc like 5 times). What's worse is that after getting Retaliation we're probably not seeing anything else but some more awesome Amoods in the next couple of years.

"Wah, my job got something new, but it isn't as useful as I would have liked." Seriously? WAR is one of the most ubiquitously useful jobs in the game. At least you got something and weren't nerfed.

[isladar]

Does it increase your counter-rate with seigan/third-eye up, or are they separate checks?

You have to take damage for the chance of a Retaliation proc, which is why I'm not ovary-clentchingly in love with it. Its really something to throw up if your Utsusemi/Third Eye timers are down.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Does it increase your counter-rate with seigan/third-eye up, or are they separate checks?

You have to take damage for the chance of a Retaliation proc, which is why I'm not ovary-clentchingly in love with it. Its really something to throw up if your Utsusemi/Third Eye timers are down.

I see this as an incentive for blood tanking myself. Maybe somebody can make some awesome WAR tank/dd hybrid that can do insane damage.

Or not.

[Lordender]

I really want to see more status type bolts a thf could use. I like aura steal, it comes in handy when mage mobs have spikes up but 5mins is kinda meh, I really want to see Silence/dispel bolts being the two big ones.

[ronin sparthos]

Simple Suggestion:

-Remove Choco Circuit taxes, promote area as a bazaar area.
Sideffect: People doing races of some sort while skimming through the dozens of bazaars all neatly packed in one laggy area (not Aht Urhgan Whitegate)

[Zilong]

Simple Suggestion:

-Remove Choco Circuit taxes, promote area as a bazaar area.And take out the bullshit limitation of zone entry = zone exit portal only
Sideffect: People doing races of some sort while skimming through the dozens of bazaars all neatly packed in one laggy area (not Aht Urhgan Whitegate)

Fixed

Seriously, that way the coliseum can be a whole junction of all main cities and aht urghan zone with chocobo racing as an afterthought rather than a complete failure of concept implementation and waste of developer's time that could have been better spent on...I don't know, making a certain unkillable mob killable, or god forbid a certain set of job specific endgame gearset that looks eerily familiar to a level 60 set of armor for a certain group of jobs.

[VZX]

I wonder if they can remove the overhead from the after shooting effect on RNG. or at least reduce it as if you're using boomerang/chakram. This delay exactly the same as 1st gold musketeer squad reload rate.

Also, they could make AGI to be the potency increment for velocity shot (i.e. velocity shot potency raised by 1% per 15 AGI)

[miokomioko]

Square-Enix developers said they were discussing introducing Throwing weaponskills... like 3 years ago. What is so difficult about making that joke of a combat skill actually worthwhile? Perhaps, in the process, they could add some boomerang/chakram/other-returnable-throwing-weapons that have some useful additional effects and could finally put use to a Ranged slot for a non-ranged melee for anything other than miniscule stat boosts and "pulling" duties.

[Gilthas]

Seriously? Personally I keep wishing SE hadn't added the -movement effect on it and had just made it a job trait. For almost everything its benefits are so marginal that its annoying to have to recast it every 3 minutes.

Since it can only proc when you actually get hit its uses are limited to soloing weak crap or if for some odd reason you're bloodtanking something. In normal situations we're supposed to avoid getting hit, so optimally, it should never get a chance to proc. To me Retaliation is barely ahead of Zanshin, "another" job trait that optimally should never get a chance to proc.

Annoys the hell out of me that after the marginal use of our group 2 merits we get a new Job Ability that's so underwhelming. I'm not asking for something that would increase our damage output, but I did wish we got something that had an actual effect instead of something that I need to be constantly recasting yet only see proc 10 times tops per hour (hell, yesterday in dynamis I think I only saw it proc like 5 times). What's worse is that after getting Retaliation we're probably not seeing anything else but some more awesome Amoods in the next couple of years.

"Wah, my job got something new, but it isn't as useful as I would have liked." Seriously? WAR is one of the most ubiquitously useful jobs in the game. At least you got something and weren't nerfed.

Got to love people like you. Someone makes a negative observation about something and you rush in bitching.

Just because SE gave WARs a new ability I'm not going to start jumping in joy and pretend that its awesome when the ability in question has some pretty damn obvious flaws.

[Priran]

Seriously? Personally I keep wishing SE hadn't added the -movement effect on it and had just made it a job trait. For almost everything its benefits are so marginal that its annoying to have to recast it every 3 minutes.

Since it can only proc when you actually get hit its uses are limited to soloing weak crap or if for some odd reason you're bloodtanking something. In normal situations we're supposed to avoid getting hit, so optimally, it should never get a chance to proc. To me Retaliation is barely ahead of Zanshin, "another" job trait that optimally should never get a chance to proc.

Annoys the hell out of me that after the marginal use of our group 2 merits we get a new Job Ability that's so underwhelming. I'm not asking for something that would increase our damage output, but I did wish we got something that had an actual effect instead of something that I need to be constantly recasting yet only see proc 10 times tops per hour (hell, yesterday in dynamis I think I only saw it proc like 5 times). What's worse is that after getting Retaliation we're probably not seeing anything else but some more awesome Amoods in the next couple of years.

"Wah, my job got something new, but it isn't as useful as I would have liked." Seriously? WAR is one of the most ubiquitously useful jobs in the game. At least you got something and weren't nerfed.

Got to love people like you. Someone makes a negative observation about something and you rush in bitching.

Just because SE gave WARs a new ability I'm not going to start jumping in joy and pretend that its awesome when the ability in question has some pretty damn obvious flaws.

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I wouldn't consider telling you to be grateful for what you got "bitching" (in fact, I think the term more closely fits your post), but then again I'm not currently experiencing pain of the anus.

You should be glad you got a damn thing. What can a WAR even expect at this point? The most significant thing SE could do for the job without breaking it would be a SAM nerf.

[Gilthas]

Seriously? Personally I keep wishing SE hadn't added the -movement effect on it and had just made it a job trait. For almost everything its benefits are so marginal that its annoying to have to recast it every 3 minutes.

Since it can only proc when you actually get hit its uses are limited to soloing weak crap or if for some odd reason you're bloodtanking something. In normal situations we're supposed to avoid getting hit, so optimally, it should never get a chance to proc. To me Retaliation is barely ahead of Zanshin, "another" job trait that optimally should never get a chance to proc.

Annoys the hell out of me that after the marginal use of our group 2 merits we get a new Job Ability that's so underwhelming. I'm not asking for something that would increase our damage output, but I did wish we got something that had an actual effect instead of something that I need to be constantly recasting yet only see proc 10 times tops per hour (hell, yesterday in dynamis I think I only saw it proc like 5 times). What's worse is that after getting Retaliation we're probably not seeing anything else but some more awesome Amoods in the next couple of years.

"Wah, my job got something new, but it isn't as useful as I would have liked." Seriously? WAR is one of the most ubiquitously useful jobs in the game. At least you got something and weren't nerfed.

Got to love people like you. Someone makes a negative observation about something and you rush in bitching.

Just because SE gave WARs a new ability I'm not going to start jumping in joy and pretend that its awesome when the ability in question has some pretty damn obvious flaws.

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I wouldn't consider telling you to be grateful for what you got "bitching" (in fact, I think the term more closely fits your post), but then again I'm not currently experiencing pain of the anus.

You should be glad you got a damn thing. What can a WAR even expect at this point? The most significant thing SE could do for the job without breaking it would be a SAM nerf.

Lol, how is you telling me "to be grateful for what I got" not bitching? Looks like you're the one with some serious butt ache if you're crying about WARs getting such an underwhelming ability.

What can a WAR expect at this point? What can so many jobs out there expect at this point? People want new stuff to play with, stuff that actually has a use. Your logic is flawed.

[Max™]

War/Dnc, /Thf, /Mnk, /Drg, /Sam all get better DoT when Retaliation is up, with /Thf it's "oops, forgot TA" or just SA WSing for the hell of it, /Mnk and /Drg you're gonna try to race the mob to death, yay more DoT. /Dnc it seriously rocks "ohay, more TP/DoT, yay!" especially when soloing anything (was farming my 108 knot Quipus for Windy questline, and at times had a semi-hundred fists effect going on from Yags smacking me in between/during Fort axe swings) that will actually hit you from time to time (EP-EM) and makes me happy.

/Sam, well, Seigan WILL go down at times, and while it won't make you take less damage (though I could almost swear it seems to proc like Guard at times, still need to test and see if it affects damage at all) for sure, it WILL help you get in more attack rounds/kill faster when TE does go down... which...


Well, hell, if the mobs going to be hitting me, I'd rather have the chance for more attack rounds kick in.

If it reduced interrupt rate, and gave just a slight damage mitigation effect (doesn't have to be Counter +2) akin to Guard or a shield block or something, it would frankly rock (rawk). As is it's moar DoT/TP gain at the cost of another Dusks worth of slow. I can deal with it.

[Foustian]

Seriously? Personally I keep wishing SE hadn't added the -movement effect on it and had just made it a job trait. For almost everything its benefits are so marginal that its annoying to have to recast it every 3 minutes.

Since it can only proc when you actually get hit its uses are limited to soloing weak crap or if for some odd reason you're bloodtanking something. In normal situations we're supposed to avoid getting hit, so optimally, it should never get a chance to proc. To me Retaliation is barely ahead of Zanshin, "another" job trait that optimally should never get a chance to proc.

Annoys the hell out of me that after the marginal use of our group 2 merits we get a new Job Ability that's so underwhelming. I'm not asking for something that would increase our damage output, but I did wish we got something that had an actual effect instead of something that I need to be constantly recasting yet only see proc 10 times tops per hour (hell, yesterday in dynamis I think I only saw it proc like 5 times). What's worse is that after getting Retaliation we're probably not seeing anything else but some more awesome Amoods in the next couple of years.

"Wah, my job got something new, but it isn't as useful as I would have liked." Seriously? WAR is one of the most ubiquitously useful jobs in the game. At least you got something and weren't nerfed.

Got to love people like you. Someone makes a negative observation about something and you rush in bitching.

Just because SE gave WARs a new ability I'm not going to start jumping in joy and pretend that its awesome when the ability in question has some pretty damn obvious flaws.

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I wouldn't consider telling you to be grateful for what you got "bitching" (in fact, I think the term more closely fits your post), but then again I'm not currently experiencing pain of the anus.

You should be glad you got a damn thing. What can a WAR even expect at this point? The most significant thing SE could do for the job without breaking it would be a SAM nerf.

Lol, how is you telling me "to be grateful for what I got" not bitching? Looks like you're the one with some serious butt ache if you're crying about WARs getting such an underwhelming ability.

What can a WAR expect at this point? What can so many jobs out there expect at this point? People want new stuff to play with, stuff that actually has a use. Your logic is flawed.

Not really. Just cuz multiple jobs are pretty much as good as they can be without being broken doesn't mean his logic is flawed. It just means he singled out WAR in this case since in this case WAR was the job being discussed. People wanting new stuff for their job doesn't mean their job can actually use new stuff. Believing that is flawed logic.

[Plow]

Not really. Just cuz multiple jobs are pretty much as good as they can be without being broken doesn't mean his logic is flawed. It just means he singled out WAR in this case since in this case WAR was the job being discussed. People wanting new stuff for their job doesn't mean their job can actually use new stuff. Believing that is flawed logic.

Yeah, this is a video game, and it's made to be played *together*.


Until players can get it out of their heads that classes need to be held back for the sake of others, rather than just making fun new stuff for everyone, the developers never will either.


(or hell, maybe I've got it backwards and it's really that the players will never believe it until the devs actually stop doing it)

[LD]

First of all, I just wanted to say the funniest thing about Sekkanoki is that it works almost EXACTLY the same way Meikyo Shisui did before it was enhanced more than 4 years ago in the December update of 2003 (the difference, of course, being WSs always acting as 100%, instead of whatever it is at the time).



Anyway, after reading and not reading this bitchfest, I've decided to put this topic nearly back on track and list my job ideas for all of the ones I could think of at the time.

Monk:
It's already getting this kick attacks enhancement, but I'm hoping it'll work like this:
Can only be used with H2H. Replaces punches with a single, powerful kick. Double the base H2H damage given from skill for kicks ((((skill x0.11) +3) x2) +Kung Fu, et al.), and the Kick Attack trait will work like DA while the ability is in effect (actual DA will have no effect). H2H weapons only add attack speed and stats that aren't directly tied to the weapon (e.g. No added effects or Destroyer Crits, just like now). Hundred Fists only decreases delay, in the same way it always has. The new JA will act normally under Hundred Fists. The ability does not affect WSs, they are still based off the normal base and H2H weapon damage. TP gain remains the same as it would if it were a normal kick (~5%, depending on main weapon), so while the TP given to damage ratio is far superior to any other weapon, the TP gain for the MNK is inferior (compared to what it was before, anyway). Since H2H is still considered a 1H weapon, it will still have the pDIF caps that keeps it in check, meaning in low def situations, remaining in double punch/multi-hit mode is best. This Kick stance is made specifically for high defense situations. It will make it unquestionably best in normal auto-attacks, but DRK & SAM will still hold the field in raw WS damage (and in DRK's case, zerg damage.)

Also, Fucking Earth Slash.

White Mage:
After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that WHM should be given a trait that allows it to heal more with the Cure spells for less hate. Meaning Cure could heal, say 50 for nearly half the normal enmity. Cure 5's enmity would be unaffected, but the healing would also be increased. With all Cure curing upwards of 50% more damage for less enmity, WHM is once again the best healer.

I've also come up with some adjustments for the Regen line of spells. Regen 2 & 3 adjusted to be the same based HP-MP ratio as Regen 1 (250 for 30, 500 for 60) and Regen 4 will be added as SCH-only (1000 for 120). Regen 2 will be given to RDM. Regen 3 & 4 will become available to SCH only under Addendum: White.


Red Mage:
Despite their Uber Mensch nature, I've found there is some validity to their inability to land Enfeebles any better than another mage or at least on mobs that actually 'matter.' Also, their position as a support is somewhat diminished lately, so I thought about some suggestions I'd heard.

RDM only spell, 'Might'.
A targetable reverse Phalanx, it adds a set amount of damage directly to auto attacks. Putting it under the same formula as Phalanx should work, ~20 damage will help it solo and not be as much of a shit melee while also giving it something else to buff with (though RDM probably don't want another spell melees will bitch for. :x)

RDM only spell, 'Virus'.
This fire-based enfeeble is really over-due, a plague effect of sufficient power would be useful on more than just merit mobs.

Magic Accuracy Bonus.
This is really the most simple way I could think of adjusting RDM on the whole withough flat out breaking it. It'll work in 4 stages just like other bonus traits(10,22,36,48), but the 2nd level wont be at sub levels, so RDM will actually have a sizable bonus even if another job is /RDM. This will make RDM's lower nuking power slightly less of a liability, as it will at least be more consistant, and they'll be able to land enfeebles more regularly, as God intended.

Blue Mage:
Bam.

Dragoon:
Allow all levels of Elemental and Healing breaths on any sub job. Breaths can be forced with a JA on the appropriate sub job.

Hyper Jump, mother fucker.


General:
Resistances affect base damage (more).


The only jobs that I omitted that I believe actually need something are BST & DNC, but I can’t think of anything that could really help either of them where they really need it (though a dispel Flourish would be nice).

[Marootsoobutsu]

I really want to see more status type bolts a thf could use. I like aura steal, it comes in handy when mage mobs have spikes up but 5mins is kinda meh, I really want to see Silence/dispel bolts being the two big ones.

Honestly, the only thing I THF really needs is native subtle blow. Collaborator is great fun, though I'd like to see it alliance based rather than just party. I wouldn't cry over more status bolts... but I think that's a luxury much more than a need.

Thf just really needs to be able to do it's DoT goodness without giving the mob lolWipe amounts of TP.

[Plow]

Well here's something I was thinking about making a new thread about, and is probably worthy of a thread, but here seems just as good anyway.


What could be done to make bard better?

I know, I know, everyone's first reaction to that question would be "wtf brd is #1 job in the game no question lol they don't need buffs."

But that's not what I'm getting at.


My point is that despite being the best job in the game, it pretty much just plain sucks to play. Most people that have leveled brd at this point will tell you it's a curse more than a blessing, as you're stuck playing it for way too much shit, simply because nobody else will. You have to "ask nicely" to get people to come on brd, and just nobody wants to do it no matter how good it is. Hell, that's probably part of why it's so damn good, someone at some point probably went "man this job sucks balls, we better make it extremely vital or else nobody is ever going to play it!"

In all honesty, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever could be done, but it really seems to me at this point that something desperately needs to change to make the job fun to play, and not just something people do because someone has to.

[Kkel]

I've always thought BRD should get JA's similar to BLU's Diffusion/Convergence, though on much shorter timers. Concert and Solo, i dunno. Seems like there are instances where being able convert a normally AoE song, like Ballad, into a single target song with increased potency and/or make normally single target songs, like Dirge or Sirvente, AoE may be of benefit (Old school Etude action). This would also open up a potentially more potent Sleep(?) (Solo Horde Lullaby) and Elegy-ga/Finale-ga, if that's worth anything.

Probably would just make more work for the Bard though. >_>

[Nirokun!]

give bard the guitar thing in the dnc picture released by SE (its not a guitar, it has another funny name)

then insert a little guitar hero-esque game to increase some attribute about the song

there you go guitar-hero fans, there you go