Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Shinta]

In a way, both sides are completely right. /WHM is one of the most powerful subjobs in the game, actually I think it is THE most powerful in the game. No other subjob gives you so much. Blink, Stoneskin, Erase, Every Na but Stona, 3 Teleports, Regen, Cure 1-3, Curaga 1-2, Protectra II/Shellra II, Aquaveil, Sneak and Invisible, Reraise, Raise, Dia II, Paralyze, Slow, Silence, Every Barspell but Barvira and Barpetra, and Banish II. But, it is such a critical subjob for so many jobs that the opposing side has a point aswell, it would alter way too much and the consequences of a /WHM nerf would be far reaching and hard to predict. Either way, WHM and many other jobs need some adjustments.

[Plow]

In a way, both sides are completely right. /WHM is one of the most powerful subjobs in the game, actually I think it is THE most powerful in the game. No other subjob gives you so much. Blink, Stoneskin, Erase, Every Na but Stona, 3 Teleports, Regen, Cure 1-3, Curaga 1-2, Protectra II/Shellra II, Aquaveil, Sneak and Invisible, Reraise, Raise, Dia II, Paralyze, Slow, Silence, Every Barspell but Barvira and Barpetra, and Banish II. But, it is such a critical subjob for so many jobs that the opposing side has a point aswell, it would alter way too much and the consequences of a /WHM nerf would be far reaching and hard to predict. Either way, WHM and many other jobs need some adjustments.

Utsusemi wha?

Nah, it's... gasp situational... but really, whm is great to have around for when you need RR or a port, but at this point in group situations there's really only one job that uses it as like a universal sub, blm's and rdm's have been moving away from /whm for a long time (unless they need -na), brd is going nin for a lot of stuff, and then good ole smn is still making about half the job up out of /whm heh.

[ronin sparthos]

Give WHM a faster divine veil, give them some ways to lower enmity, (Hi2u Pax, its in the game already) direct damage mitigation (kinda like a single target -5% physical damage or something - call it shield or something) a quick JA curaga equivalent (a whm should be able to heal in desperation even w/o mp and without Martyr) and overall give white mage cure potency traits - there is no reason the dominant curing class shouldnt be working on potency over 37-75, none.

So thats:
-3-5min Divine Veil remix, on a seperate timer.
-Pax, a new unique WHM spell that lowers enmity on a target. (Level 40?)
-Shield/Bubble, (idk) a new WHM unique spell that grants 5% damage mitigation on one target. (Level 65-70?)
-2-3 Cure Potency Traits, post 37 so its WHM unique. 20-30% native cure potency is pretty realistic.
-Pray (Straight outta FFIV) - a Unique WHM JA (level 45?) that instantly cures all targets in range for an equivalent of curaga 1.5. 3-4min timer. This is a base HP JA, you cant improve how much it heals.
-Bless (A step up from Pray) - another unique WHM JA (level 65?) that instantly cures all targets for an equivalent of curaga 2.5. 3-4min timer. Again, this has a set amount of HP it heals, you cant improve it.

That seems like a viable way of 'impoving' WHM while not going overboard to me, 2 new JAs, 2 new unique spells, 2 new job traits that are battle-effective and a reworking of something already in the game.

A sidenote, something less realistic would be a spell that Raises Max HP by a set amount like 10% or something like a 'light-based' Dread Spikes (Aurora Spikes?) where targets take light based damage when they hit whoever its casted on and the player gets back a set amount of HP from it. (You take 100 damage, target takes 50 damage, you get back 50hp)

[Plow]

Seem to be a lot of suggestions approaching but not quite the WoW priest's "Power Word: Shield" which basically would be like a stoneskin II which can be cast directly on other people.

[Damane]

the problem with whm is that their A+ skill in healing magic does actually shit for the cureing power of the spells compared to the healing magic skill of RDM and SCH.

You can see a great gap between a C- enfeeb skill and A+ enfeeb skill, but you wont see such a big impact on performance when you compare a C- healing magic skill to a A+ healign magic skill. I think thats the problem why whm doesnt win the race for best healing class in any situation, their no.1 magic skill has just too little impact

there is different ways to adjust that
- give abilitys/traits to whm
- totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users
- do the same as with summoning skill in terms of overcap healing magic skill giving some sort of conserve MP on curativ spells and lowering enmity

[Priran]

totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users

The difference between Light Arts' B+ skill and WHM's A+ skill in healing is 20 points at Lv.75. I'd like to know how you plan on turning that into a significant advantage for WHM without wrecking PLD (C skill).

[BRP]

totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users

The difference between Light Arts' B+ skill and WHM's A+ skill in healing is 20 points at Lv.75. I'd like to know how you plan on turning that into a significant advantage for WHM without wrecking PLD (C skill).

SCH being healers isn't a big deal. I thought you were complaining about /WHM. It would "wreck" /WHM, not so much SCH.

[fantasticdan]

Brd/whm, smn/whm, bst/whm, etc. most definitely do not need curing nerfs.

[Priran]

totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users

The difference between Light Arts' B+ skill and WHM's A+ skill in healing is 20 points at Lv.75. I'd like to know how you plan on turning that into a significant advantage for WHM without wrecking PLD (C skill).

SCH being healers isn't a big deal. I thought you were complaining about /WHM. It would "wreck" /WHM, not so much SCH.

Anyone can sub SCH, use Light Arts, and Cure. Nerf /WHM cures, so what? People just use /SCH to accomplish the same thing.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Give WHM the 'Healer' job trait like in old FF games,allows the WHM to target PC's and hit them but the damage they deal heals the target instead!


































(Im not actually serious...)

[LD]

You can see a great gap between a C- enfeeb skill and A+ enfeeb skill

Again, something you wouldn't believe with the amount of bitching RDM's tend to do.


Seriously, I see a fucking trend.

[BRP]

totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users

The difference between Light Arts' B+ skill and WHM's A+ skill in healing is 20 points at Lv.75. I'd like to know how you plan on turning that into a significant advantage for WHM without wrecking PLD (C skill).

SCH being healers isn't a big deal. I thought you were complaining about /WHM. It would "wreck" /WHM, not so much SCH.

Anyone can sub SCH, use Light Arts, and Cure. Nerf /WHM cures, so what? People just use /SCH to accomplish the same thing.

Adding a penalty to sub job /SCH wouldn't be much a stretch. Simply base their "potency" on their non-Light Arts skill while main job SCH remains at B+. Another solution would be to up PLD's healing skill so that they are up to SCH at least.

[orson]

Nerfing subs is ridiculously that's basically bottle necking many jobs into few choices. I'm not even going to get into the fact the healing from a /Whm is already sub par. We already have it where most subs are marginally useful at best for most jobs. I think SE should be making subs as strong as possible without making stuff broken. It'd push us into tailoring subs for a given event.

Whm is hardly dead apart from maybe some new toys Repose-ga and some new buffs (make Whm Protects actually reduce physical damage like shell maybe?) I doubt that it really even need anything much to improve it. The biggest advantage a Sch has over Whm is the ability to swap to nuker at the drop of a hat. Really I think in endgame situations this really won't affect a good Whm. You're almost always going to want a dedicated healer. I don't know about you but I'd rather not take the chance letting the main heal nuke when fighting something that can drop a tank in a few lucky hits. Whm is totally complimented by /Sch. There's nothing wrong with jobs having the same role last time I checked there's about a billion DD jobs and 3 jobs that really can be considered dedicated healers and tanks. Whm isn't going to disappear it might just not get as many exp invites in the 35-70 range.

Blm is the one to be at more risk of being replaced. Without /Whm or /Rdm it losses a huge amount of versatility and survivability going /Sch. Most small man to large scale events the higher elemental skill and slightly better MAB is not going to have a massive effect. On the other hand who would rather trade 50-100 damage on a nuke for all of what Sch has. I'm simplifying a fair a bit but apart nuking, sleepga II (sorta) and stunning (really Rdm/Drk is more popular for that anyways) Blm really doesn't have a noticeable advantage over Sch at this point. Again though it's not like there's a huge mass of nuke jobs so quite often Blm is one of those jobs people are gonna want. It's just if you really want to make yourself versatile and like nuking you might consider leveling Sch (Heck Blm and Sch share a lot of the same gear.)

[Demosthenes11]

Give WHM the 'Healer' job trait like in old FF games,allows the WHM to target PC's and hit them but the damage they deal heals the target instead!
(Im not actually serious...)

that would actually be pretty cool o.O
10 min cooldown ability: for 1 minute you can target and attack pt members and cure them for the amount you hit for.
WHERE'S YOUR MJOLLNER NOW!?

[BRP]

I'm not even going to get into the fact the healing from a /Whm is already sub par.

In parties "subpar" is more than enough though. And RDM and SCH(jobs that threaten to replace WHM in parties) certainly aren't subpar in curing ability. Saying "WHM might get less invites" is a cop out, this thread is about balancing.

[orson]

I'm not even going to get into the fact the healing from a /Whm is already sub par.

In parties "subpar" is more than enough though. And RDM and SCH(jobs that threaten to replace WHM in parties) certainly aren't subpar in curing ability. Saying "WHM might get less invites" is a cop out, this thread is about balancing.

Rdm has been preferred over Whms in parties already for how long? Hmmm, I still don't see Whms not getting invites, meripo for sure but /Sch adds a lot of MP conservation so Whm has gotten better for that. Anyways healers are harder to come by for parties in my experiences. So I don't see it as being this huge threat that suddenly no one will be able to level Whm. Once people get over the novelty of Sch and Dnc (or finish leveling it) it'll be back to begging for healers in parties. It's hardly a cop out to disagree with nerfing a lot of subs (directly nerfing the versatility of other jobs) because one job will possibly get less invites. There's always going to be a hierarchy to invites no matter what is because no matter how close to balanced jobs will ever get there's always going to be a tiny factor that puts one above the other (unless every job had the exact capabilities which would suck.)

Whms need to stop worrying so much. There's loads of jobs that'd kill to be in their position on the invite ladder.

[Damane]

totally change the way how cure spells are calculated via healing magic skill and MND etc. this would buff whm while nerfing a bit pld, rdm and sch and all /whm users

The difference between Light Arts' B+ skill and WHM's A+ skill in healing is 20 points at Lv.75. I'd like to know how you plan on turning that into a significant advantage for WHM without wrecking PLD (C skill).

SCH being healers isn't a big deal. I thought you were complaining about /WHM. It would "wreck" /WHM, not so much SCH.

Anyone can sub SCH, use Light Arts, and Cure. Nerf /WHM cures, so what? People just use /SCH to accomplish the same thing.

thats one of many possibilitys how to "fix" it.
I for myself would rather like the "healing magic skill" over cap buff.
276 is healing magic skill cap, every point of skill above that adds to:
-conserve MP for cureativ spells
-enmity
-healing potency

lets say for example:
for each skill over 276 you get 1% conserved MP cost of cureative spells. set the cap to 326. A whm with 326 healing magic skill can get 50% conserved MP only on curative spells.
further every 2 skills add -1enmity on cure spells after 276, cap would be also at 326 healing magic skill, max -enmity in this setup would be 25.
and lastly for every 3 skills above cap you get 1% of cure potency. leading to maximum of 16% cure potency at 326 healing magic skill.

this way you dont hurt pld with their C healing magic skill since they will never go above 276 cap of healing magic skill and give whm a huge advantage on cure power and efficiency over other mages.

EDIT:
and to add to the versitality of a whm I would buff the banish/holy spells to a degree where they can match the nuke power of elemental spells on normal mobs just slightly less, but make them devasting destructiv on undead mobs.
add Banish IV, banishga III and holy II with that update.

[Vail]

thats one of many possibilitys how to "fix" it.
I for myself would rather like the "healing magic skill" over cap buff.
276 is healing magic skill cap, every point of skill above that adds to:
-conserve MP for cureativ spells
-enmity
-healing potency

lets say for example:
for each skill over 276 you get 1% conserved MP cost of cureative spells. set the cap to 326. A whm with 326 healing magic skill can get 50% conserved MP only on curative spells.
further every 2 skills add -1enmity on cure spells after 276, cap would be also at 326 healing magic skill, max -enmity in this setup would be 25.
and lastly for every 3 skills above cap you get 1% of cure potency. leading to maximum of 16% cure potency at 326 healing magic skill.

this way you dont hurt pld with their C healing magic skill since they will never go above 276 cap of healing magic skill and give whm a huge advantage on cure power and efficiency over other mages.

EDIT:
and to add to the versitality of a whm I would buff the banish/holy spells to a degree where they can match the nuke power of elemental spells on normal mobs just slightly less, but make them devasting destructiv on undead mobs.
add Banish IV, banishga III and holy II with that update.

expanding on divine magic is a good idea really, giving whm more tools is a good idea, and something (anything) to help reduce whm's MP expenditure so they can stand up more is also the right direction.

another idea for whm is a "MP stoneskin" spell based on one of whm's skills (enhancing, divine or healing) allowing whm to cast spells and deplete MP off that "stoneskin" but requires the whm to obviously constantly reapply that spell. So a whm in short term fights will still have it's MP to fall back on: but in long term fights/endurace fights, they'd have that MP stoneskin to keep them going.

Make it cap at like 100mp(with an MP cost of like, 10), with a 2minute recast. This is handy because it allows whm to build on this ability with haste gear/effects, so they can use it more frequently. Similiar to how rdm builds on it's convert by packing on more +MP gear. with no recast reduction a whm could make about 400mp out of something like this every 10minutes, but with recast gear they can push that to 500-700mp every 10minutes, giving them some longevity.

[Rocl]

I'll fix this tomfoolery.

Delete every job except SCH, WAR, and RDM. Problem solved, LULZ.

[spooky]

I'll fix this tomfoolery.

Delete every job except SCH, WAR, and RDM. Problem solved, LULZ.

I'd rather have BRD over RDM.