Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Maxxthepenguin]

(read: remember what you've seen from Magic Mortar?)

It got nerfed? I don't see your point really.

And as already stated more exp for monsters that are more difficult would be the idea rather than typical colibri or imps.

You don't need to be a pro to set up one or two SCs in one party. Especially with TP Party people tend to know when to SC without being told(or with a minimum "Going in 2 secs" on the first WS macro). It's not difficult and the reason it is not done is because there is no reason to.

Also because it requires effort and makes it so that people can't slap each other in the face with their epeen parses.

[orson]

I always thought it would be neat if they added HNMs that had very low respawn timers and instead of gil/items dropping they gave a large chunk of exp. Even if they were in an instanced event. Think about how nice it'd be if you did Salvage and killing the chariot gave everyone 10k. I think the ENM system was genius but the exp rewards weren't high enough. I think if they did more instance style events that awarded exp 20-75 (heck possibly give them a cap option like assault but actually make it scale mob levels) then it would be easier to promote using jobs like Blms. Give the fight objectives and strategies that aren't really hard but at least it would spice up leveling a bit.

[ronin sparthos]

It'd have to be on like a 1-day timer at the least or people might just do the BCNMs for EXP and say to hell with the 'standard' EXP way. The implications of RMT hacking in the BCNMs to get exp super fast if it didnt have a timer would be an issue too.

I think they should just open up the possibilities to EXP in places where the playerbase has all but abandoned for EXP - with incentives for going to these places. Look at how many zones are in the game teeming with monsters yet they see almost no traffic.

Conquest should be giving a flat EXP bonus depending on who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd and no exp bonus if a place is under beastmen control. Its incentive to keep zones under control and encourages competition between the 3nations (kinda like what its supposed to be like!) to maintain 1st if you want prime EXP bonus.

Dungeon respawns should be 7-10mins, 12-16mins is just too much - and it ruins alot of the EXP potential in zones that are so empty its not funny. Dungeons should be respawning enemies just slightly longer than outdoor - hell 5min respawns in a dungeon wouldnt be too bad, but the potential for alot of old camps would come back 'round with faster respawns.

Sigil should be giving an EXP bonus in territories controlled by the Allied Forces, Campaign is already a draw to many people - so why not encourage EXP in the Shadowreign zones as well? You control this territory - EXP bonus. You fail to keep these territories? No exp bonus.

These fixes would encourage alot more fluidity in picking EXP zones over the usual 'its Aht Urhgan or its not meripo' mentality caused by sanction effects. Why go somewhere crowded when you could go somewhere empty, chain to no end and get exp bonus so long as the community earned it. It'd spread people out: and that'd be a good thing.

[orson]

It'd have to be on like a 1-day timer at the least or people might just do the BCNMs for EXP and say to hell with the 'standard' EXP way. The implications of RMT hacking in the BCNMs to get exp super fast if it didnt have a timer would be an issue too.

Ya there'd definitely would have to be some limits to it but I think giving people stuff like assaults that earned them exp (at the same rate as party exp) + allied notes (earning gear/gil would be nice while leveling, loved when ToAU currency was off the charts) or something along those lines would help with the monotony. The thing is that it'd have to earn about the same exp as a regular party because otherwise what's the point of making a Pld, War, Whm, Blm, Rdm, and Drk group to go do a instance when the War, Drk, and Rdm could ditch the others get a Brd and a couple more /Nin DDs and go slaughter stuff. Ultimately making people do strategy based events through out leveling would also improve the quality of player because honestly in a regular party it's not like you explore many aspects of your character it's total humdrum.

I also like the idea of what some people said about solo quests. Make solo exp about 1/2-3/4 the speed of party exp but make it based on quests that won't necessarily need fighting so jobs like smn could do them as easily as war (or make them some what job specific.)

[ronin sparthos]

Another idea would be some job specific solo dungeons, drawn out solo missions where you travel through a zone killing mobs and completing objectives.

Perhaps it could be another situation where a BCNM is 'job speficic' in the sense it'd be like a group of only Bards or only Dark Knights beating a monster for reward of EXP and possibly treasure.

[Zihn]

add an overkill exp bonus that multiplies the exp the monster gives. should only apply to magic burst kills (maybe have it affect drop rates in a similar way also).

ex. if the monster have 500 hp left when the killing magic burst hits for 1000 dmg the exp will be doubled of cause capped at something like double exp to not get retarded 1hp left 2000+ dmg magic burst kills.

100 hp left > 105 dmg magic burst = 5% bonus exp
100 hp left > 121 dmg magic burst = 21% bonus exp
ect
ect

[orson]

add an overkill exp bonus that multiplies the exp the monster gives. should only apply to magic burst kills (maybe have it affect drop rates in a similar way also).

ex. if the monster have 500 hp left when the killing magic burst hits for 1000 dmg the exp will be doubled of cause capped at something like double exp to not get retarded 1hp left 2000+ dmg magic burst kills.

100 hp left > 105 dmg magic burst = 5% bonus exp
100 hp left > 121 dmg magic burst = 21% bonus exp
ect
ect

Overkill would be sweet FFX was great.

[Nirokun!]

I also like the idea of what some people said about solo quests. Make solo exp about 1/2-3/4 the speed of party exp but make it based on quests that won't necessarily need fighting so jobs like smn could do them as easily as war (or make them some what job specific.)

SMN solos circles around WAR

[Plow]

So what are all these people's opinions on Dancer?

So far from what I can see it pretty much makes the tp burn "issue" even more extreme, no need for a real tank with a dancer or 2 in the pt, further promotes not bringing whm's, and obviously isn't exactly adding to the desire for more sc....

5 melee pt with 2 dnc and a rdm is pretty damn powerful, pretty much brings full on tp burning all the way down to level 15.

[orson]

I also like the idea of what some people said about solo quests. Make solo exp about 1/2-3/4 the speed of party exp but make it based on quests that won't necessarily need fighting so jobs like smn could do them as easily as war (or make them some what job specific.)

SMN solos circles around WAR

Using a generalization to get a point across. With /Dnc + Retaliation now I'm not so sure about that anyways but I wasn't really making that the point.

[ronin sparthos]

Dancer was built in mind of the TPburn craze, it suits its purpose as damaging-healer and pales on HNMs due to its nature.

Besides the need for a practical HNM application, dancer is a pretty solid job with a clear purpose in a party - something alot of other jobs do not get the luxury of getting.

Perhaps some defensive natured dances (basically like a pro-shell kinda thing) and more steps would be a good idea.

[Plow]

I also like the idea of what some people said about solo quests. Make solo exp about 1/2-3/4 the speed of party exp but make it based on quests that won't necessarily need fighting so jobs like smn could do them as easily as war (or make them some what job specific.)

SMN solos circles around WAR

Using a generalization to get a point across. With /Dnc + Retaliation now I'm not so sure about that anyways but I wasn't really making that the point.

utsusemi ni giving 8 shadows would still not put war on a level with smn solo capability, he's just pointing it out cuz it was a reeeally bad example heh, anyway the idea has merit, although that's pretty much what campaign and besieged do

[VZX]

Dancer was built in mind of the TPburn craze, it suits its purpose as damaging-healer and pales on HNMs due to its nature.

Besides the need for a practical HNM application, dancer is a pretty solid job with a clear purpose in a party - something alot of other jobs do not get the luxury of getting.

Perhaps some defensive natured dances (basically like a pro-shell kinda thing) and more steps would be a good idea.

Probably it's just me,

When I played DNC, it's hard for me to switch from DD-type to curing type.
After you WS, you'll lose all your TP, making you incapable to do big curing afterward.
Even if you store FM before unleasing your WS, you may spent quite a time juggling around with steps/reverse flourish.

If you do curing in the middle of TP building (for WS), it'll mess with the pace of steps/reverse flourish.

I'm not even sure what to adjust on DNC...
Probably lowering the cost for WS < 100% with diminished power/effect ? I'm pretty certain leaving your TP tank at low percent make you defenseless.

[Amok]

As far as a DNC adjustment: How about a Flourish that does damage to make up for the inability to WS freely. Or jsut ADD damage to Building Flourish (iirc that's the one that makes SC's)

I haven't merited in a long time, so how do DNC's play in merit pt's? Is it really that you do either ONE of two things? DD or Heal? Can a DNC replace a RDM as healer/haster?

[LD]

For dancer, I thought they should lower the cost and recast of waltzes and steps, that would pretty much fix everything.

[orson]

I also like the idea of what some people said about solo quests. Make solo exp about 1/2-3/4 the speed of party exp but make it based on quests that won't necessarily need fighting so jobs like smn could do them as easily as war (or make them some what job specific.)

SMN solos circles around WAR

Using a generalization to get a point across. With /Dnc + Retaliation now I'm not so sure about that anyways but I wasn't really making that the point.

utsusemi ni giving 8 shadows would still not put war on a level with smn solo capability, he's just pointing it out cuz it was a reeeally bad example heh, anyway the idea has merit, although that's pretty much what campaign and besieged do

Aye I get what you're saying. I was more so thinking of non combat or non farming quests when I gave the example anyways. Smn has a far greater solo potential on really tough mobs but on weaker mobs I'd say war easily takes the cake, it's some what a situational statement without giving specific detail.

[Shinta]

So what are all these people's opinions on Dancer?

So far from what I can see it pretty much makes the tp burn "issue" even more extreme, no need for a real tank with a dancer or 2 in the pt, further promotes not bringing whm's, and obviously isn't exactly adding to the desire for more sc....

5 melee pt with 2 dnc and a rdm is pretty damn powerful, pretty much brings full on tp burning all the way down to level 15.

I finally merited w/ a DNC in the party on my MNK the other day and it really does pretty much eliminate the need for a WHM in any merit party. Honestly, we had a RDM before hand and the DNC ran circles around the RDM in healing.

As a WHM main myself, I couldn't help but feel like it was just adding insult to injury. SE really had to add two healing jobs this expansion, no new tanks. DNC still never made me angry like SCH did. They aren't suited for endgame healing, their ability to cure status effects is far weaker and should remain slow, and the job is creative and original, not stealing a single move from any of the other jobs. I gotta say though, DNC is powerful and I was pretty angry as a WHM seeing them toss out 670 HP cures with ease on top of enfeebles, curagas and doing light DD the entire time with zero downtime from resting. DNC pretty much embodies everything I hated about Chemist suggestions: healing with zero downtime. Only now, it doesn't even cost a ton of money like Chemist would.

WHM needs some stuff. It's hard to believe SE could release an expansion with two new healers and not have a more substantial WHM adjustment to go along with it. Wonder what the new jobs will get for group 2 merits (-_-); If I had to add anything to DNC I'd give them Raise. What does SE really think here? We'll leave WHM the ability to come raise dead people that are out meriting. It's kind of insulting to give a job so much raw curing power, and then think it's balanced to not give them raise. Just give them raise, you already broke everything else.

[lost071]

So what are all these people's opinions on Dancer?

So far from what I can see it pretty much makes the tp burn "issue" even more extreme, no need for a real tank with a dancer or 2 in the pt, further promotes not bringing whm's, and obviously isn't exactly adding to the desire for more sc....

5 melee pt with 2 dnc and a rdm is pretty damn powerful, pretty much brings full on tp burning all the way down to level 15.

I finally merited w/ a DNC in the party on my MNK the other day and it really does pretty much eliminate the need for a WHM in any merit party. Honestly, we had a RDM before hand and the DNC ran circles around the RDM in healing.

As a WHM main myself, I couldn't help but feel like it was just adding insult to injury. SE really had to add two healing jobs this expansion, no new tanks. DNC still never made me angry like SCH did. They aren't suited for endgame healing, their ability to cure status effects is far weaker and should remain slow, and the job is creative and original, not stealing a single move from any of the other jobs. I gotta say though, DNC is powerful and I was pretty angry as a WHM seeing them toss out 670 HP cures with ease on top of enfeebles, curagas and doing light DD the entire time with zero downtime from resting. DNC pretty much embodies everything I hated about Chemist suggestions: healing with zero downtime. Only now, it doesn't even cost a ton of money like Chemist would.

WHM needs some stuff. It's hard to believe SE could release an expansion with two new healers and not have a more substantial WHM adjustment to go along with it. Wonder what the new jobs will get for group 2 merits (-_-); If I had to add anything to DNC I'd give them Raise. What does SE really think here? We'll leave WHM the ability to come raise dead people that are out meriting. It's kind of insulting to give a job so much raw curing power, and then think it's balanced to not give them raise. Just give them raise, you already broke everything else.

Unless a DNC can do this on an HNM so what?

[ronin sparthos]

Why do people constantly forget the game isnt ALL about HNMs and endgame?

Yes, i know DNC doesnt work vs HNMs but that doesnt really matter when it is still in direct competiton for party slots pre-75. That was the point i think the poster was trying to make, DNC 'fits' the TPburn mentality much more effectively than the -average- Whm which means player opinions shift to wanting DNC more for that facet of the game. (exp still -is- a major part of the game)

It all works out in the end i suppose, DNC gets the EXP - WHM gets the events.

Question still is: Wheres the new tank? Har Har Har.

[Spider-Dan]

As has been stated many times, if qutrubs gave enhanced XP (a la Tavnazian Rams), SC merit parties would become viable the same day.

God knows we could use another merit camp.