Opinions for Job Adjustments

[The Q]

No one, especially here, is going to be for an Utsusemi nerf.

I don't think the issue is Utsusemi itself as much as it is the Defense stat. It's just plain busted and always has been because its effectiveness caps off so low.

Say you take a WAR fighting, who has agro and he's getting hit for say ~50 per, and hitting for ~50. WAR pops Berserk and now is getting hit for ~70, hitting for ~85. Same WAR, same situation, pops Defender. Now he's getting hit for maybe ~45, and hitting for ~30. Numbers pulled straight out of my ass, but just to provide example.

When you gear and use abilities to enhance defense you're going to be hitting for significantly less damage, while at the same time getting hit for an insignificantly less amount. Defense is a stat that without it you're gonna be hurting, but piling it on isn't gonna do much more. When I throw up cocoon on BLU and notice no change whatsoever in damage taken you know something is up.

In before I'm wrong, defense is fine, kill yourself, etc.

[BRP]

I think Utsusemi is fine, but only really broken in the fact it makes all non-aoe magic a joke(some kind like tier = number of shadows taken with ninjetsu skill being able to lower it sounds fair imo. AM being unblockable). The best way to bring back bloodtanking would be to add more worth in Def/VIT(duh) and add new damage mitigation options that do not stack with utsusemi(maybe give them the plus advantage of being able to mitigate magic better).

[Khamsin]

I think Utsusemi is fine, but only really broken in the fact it makes all non-aoe magic a joke(some kind like tier = number of shadows taken with ninjetsu skill being able to lower it sounds fair imo. AM being unblockable). The best way to bring back bloodtanking would be to add more worth in Def/VIT(duh) and add new damage mitigation options that do not stack with utsusemi(maybe give them the plus advantage of being able to mitigate magic better).

Then they'll have to lower the damage caused by AM and tier IV nukes to compensate, because as it is now, they're balanced knowing that you can avoid it with utsusemi.

[Max™]

Make Defense act as Physical Damage -% on some scale, Vit boosts defense, but also affects the monster side of the Str/Vit equation (and work on the calculation some, since so many mobs have retarded base damage), and it's pretty fixed. Hell, just make defense work as -Phys %.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Or just make Utususemi into Blink when subbed.

[The Q]

Or just make Utususemi into Blink when subbed.

Or both.

Seriously, who actually looks at the defense rating when choosing gear anymore?

I was just thinking, this isn't just a problem with the defense stat alone. It's a problem with the ability for players to defend themselves period.

Corsair, Thief, Ninja, and Samurai all have A- parry. Of those jobs Ninja and MAYBE Samurai might see some use out of it, if it procs. For Thief and Corsair the rating is pretty much useless in the fact that they shouldn't have agro, and damn sure won't be tanking.

Thief has A+ in Evasion, Ninja has A-. Once again Thief will see practically no use from such a high skill rating.

I'm not going to pretend to know how often high-skilled parry or evasion works, but from the absolute reliance on Utsusemi I'm guessing it isn't anything to rely on.

Taking no damage will always be better than taking some damage, but as it is right now it's either all or nothing and that's mad screwed up.

[Max™]

Thieves don't tank things?

[The Q]

Thieves don't tank things?

Do they? I've never had one tank... well maybe in the dunes.

[Max™]

[quote=The Q]

Thieves don't tank things?

Do they? I've never had one tank... well maybe in the dunes.[/quote:lo4t19wo]

Hi2u Charybdis, UFO's, KA, lowmanned Gods, blahblahblah.

[Khamsin]

[quote=Max™][quote="The Q":252tdgnc]

Thieves don't tank things?

Do they? I've never had one tank... well maybe in the dunes.[/quote:252tdgnc]

Hi2u Charybdis, UFO's, KA, lowmanned Gods, blahblahblah.[/quote:252tdgnc]
How well do they keep hate off the BLMs and WARs/MNKs/DRKs?

[The Q]

[quote=Max™][quote="The Q":3qhn42to]

Thieves don't tank things?

Do they? I've never had one tank... well maybe in the dunes.[/quote:3qhn42to]

Hi2u Charybdis, UFO's, KA, lowmanned Gods, blahblahblah.[/quote:3qhn42to]

Well if I'm wrong on that account I'm wrong. No need for an attitude.

But do they tank using Utsusemi, or rely on native evasion?

[SeraphusRagnarok]

They steal hate themselves from 5 minutes in the future where they already have hate then their future selves trick attack hate onto themselves in the past.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060121
lol8bittheaterthief

[spooky]

I think Utsusemi is fine, but only really broken in the fact it makes all non-aoe magic a joke(some kind like tier = number of shadows taken with ninjetsu skill being able to lower it sounds fair imo. AM being unblockable). The best way to bring back bloodtanking would be to add more worth in Def/VIT(duh) and add new damage mitigation options that do not stack with utsusemi(maybe give them the plus advantage of being able to mitigate magic better).

I hope SE never reads any more of your posts like this.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Utsusemi on NIN is fine but on /NIN is stupidly broken. Even if Ni is only 3 shadows, thats still 6 direct hits guaranteed to be mitigated in a row. At least make it like blink where you have a chance to be hit in between.

Man its pretty silly that NIN in FFXI is a tank. The whole premise was to make a ranger/enfeebler class that had high surviviablity and hides in the shadows throwing shurikens and enfeebling yet they purposely grab the attention of giant dragons and beasts and blink tank. SE should have crushed NIN tanking instantly. I wonder if they created mobs like Khimera and Wyrms knowing that the only real jobs that could tank it are NIN/DRK and PLD/NIN...

[Sagacious Sundi]

Man its pretty silly that NIN in FFXI is a tank.

They're inherently disposable.

[Lucavi]

Hell, just make defense work as -Phys %.

Then they'd be ripping off WoW, which most people here seem to abhor the thought of. Heaven forbid games take things from other games that actually work well (instanced events).

[Khamsin]

Utsusemi on NIN is fine but on /NIN is stupidly broken.

You do realize it works no better as /NIN than on NIN? If it's broken on /NIN, it'd have to be equally as broken on NIN.

[Lucavi]

You do realize it works no better as /NIN than on NIN? If it's broken on /NIN, it'd have to be equally as broken on NIN.

Its the fact that only one job would be able to use (read: exploit) it, instead of every job in the game. DDs using /sam only get 60% tp, while sam mains get 100%. Do the same for utsu when used by a main vs. a subjob. Taking a single shadow away from ni from subbing it isn't a very large penalty for subbing it.

[Siatdiat]

The only thing I see happening if nin as sub was nerfed is even MORE people leveling ninja. 75% of the people I know have ninja leveled to 75, I guess everyone playing ninja would be cool. (This might be a sign players like to solo a bit and not rely on others for everything, just maybe)

[ronin sparthos]

The only thing I see happening if nin as sub was nerfed is even MORE people leveling ninja. 75% of the people I know have ninja leveled to 75, I guess everyone playing ninja would be cool. (This might be a sign players like to solo a bit and not rely on others for everything, just maybe)

Bam, lack of tank issue solved?

Defense has been busted forever now, SE just capitalized on the fact that playerbase solved the problem of broken defense/vit by using Utsusemi instead. To them its not an issue because everyone blink tanks everything now, PLDs solved the problem by subbing nin and cutting down most of the damage @ HNMs which patchworked the problem of defense.

Defense becoming a damage-% would encourage bloodtanking again, but it'll be a hard sell trying to convert people from no damage to *some damage*. It'd surely make certain items desirable again but i think the issue is making more HNMs that have a way around blinks and pushing the idea of a reworked defense formula to change anything. Taking a page out of FF12, i find it hard SE cant take a page from their own franchise and make some more current HNMs that react violently to certain spells or buffs which would adjust strategies.

Nerfing Utsusemi would be like sending the game back into the Dark Ages, the fallout would be on an epic scale. The best they can do is try to fix defense (the damage-% isnt a bad idea, who gives a fuck if they gank ideas from WoW so long as its good.) and design smarter monsters/HNMs that react to being annoying with blinks.