Superbowl 42 (Pick'em)

[Tyche]

No, I can't for sure. I can, however, be pretty confident they'd be in the same place they are now. In the superbowl, with maybe a loss, two tops. While they don't have a 1500 yard reciever, that doesn't take away from what they've done. Their #4 receiver on this team is better than most all of their #1s from years past. So yeah, obviously they may not have scored 600 points without moss, but you certainly can't say another receiver couldn't have picked up some of those 23TDs. Saying that Moss is "the reason" the pats did what they did is astronomically ignorant.

[Demosthenes11]

I still don't get you people.
The patriots aren't about stats, or streaks, or matchups.
They are about winning. Having said this, there is no reason to pick against them. You wanting them to lose SO badly won't make them lose, it will make you look like a fool for picking against them.

They always make it close, pats by 4

[Viq]

Bitches don't know 'bout Kelly Washington

[Mizango]

Btw: I agree with norelco, but deejay seems to think that moss is the sole reason for the pats success. Completely agree that Brady was looking specifically for him for the last feww games, forcing some terrible passes his way.

You can't say they'd be undefeated without Moss. Their defense isn't good enough, and no other WR is capable of getting 1500 yards and 23 touchdowns on that team.

Man lol, you're still on this Moss thing? Welker is more of an MVP to the team than Moss ever was lol. Moss is the benefactor of teams trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to double Welker coming out of the slot. Moss had one catch, Yesterday and One catch last week. Rice would get doubled and tripled every play and still end the game with over 100+ yards and 10 catches.

I still cant get over the fact you think Moss is better than Rice. Delusional much? But yes, Moss is the sole reason for the Pats success this season. Good thing they have him, because God knows Brady and Bellichick would never ever in a million years win a Superbowl or have a good record without him.

Oh wait....

Edit: For example, Viq's sig is an obvious shop. Everyone knows the Moss less Pats could not possibly be good without his 1 catch per game services these past few weeks.

[Jaffar]

Pats baby

[Deejay]

Btw: I agree with norelco, but deejay seems to think that moss is the sole reason for the pats success. Completely agree that Brady was looking specifically for him for the last feww games, forcing some terrible passes his way.

You can't say they'd be undefeated without Moss. Their defense isn't good enough, and no other WR is capable of getting 1500 yards and 23 touchdowns on that team.

Man lol, you're still on this Moss thing? Welker is more of an MVP to the team than Moss ever was lol. Moss is the benefactor of teams trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to double Welker coming out of the slot. Moss had one catch, Yesterday and One catch last week. Rice would get doubled and tripled every play and still end the game with over 100+ yards and 10 catches.

What the fuck are you talking about with this Wes Welker bullshit. Do you know how defenses work? Do you ever see safeties play aggresive against the patriots? It's easy for Wes Welker to catch 100 balls a season, when you're matched against nickel corners and outside linebackers.

That's right, I said it, it's easy.

Terrell Owens, broke the record for 20 receptions in a game. When did he do it? December 17, 2000. Oh yeah, that's right, with fucking Jerry Rice on his team? How did he do it? I thought Jerry Rice is the best WR ever and always gets open?!? Oh yeah! Because Rice demands double teams.

If a team decided to double cover 1 person, you're leaving someone else in single coverage. So what if Wes Welker is catching balls over LB's and weak conerbacks, he wouldn't be doing that as the focal point of any offense. Sure he might get his 5-7 grabs a game, but he WOULD NOT be getting the 4-6 yard check downs from Tom Brady. Those are gimme's for the Patriots simply because it's hard (and stupid) to play a shallow zone defense against Randy Moss.

Wes Welker isn't doing anything but scoring on 5 yard crosses. Every single one of his catches are like that. The middle of the field wouldn't be so open if teams didn't have to respect the deep ball against Randy Moss. This is a fact, and why the Patriots can still win games without running the ball. You can never clog the center of the field if you don't want to get beat deep.

This is the playoffs, where games are decided by close margins. NFL teams would rather have the Patriots beat them with 4-6 yard checkdowns than easy 90 yard gains. This doesn't make Wes Welker good, it makes him lucky to have a WR like Randy Moss lining up next to him.

[Mizango]

Make Deejay livid by somehow slighted Moss? Check.

Questioning my football IQ because I don't share your skewed view on the "greatest" WR of all time; Randy Moss? Check.

Stop being Moss' cock jockey and get off this whole "The Patriots are this good because of Moss" shit.

But default; you fail.

[Mizango]

Rice never slapped a bitch either.

[Deejay]

Not refute any of my statements because you can't? Check

I'm a Giants fan, and i'm still picking them to win. Just because I know the guy is better than what the stats show doesn't mean I like to suck his cock.

Edit: And if I'm so wrong, than break down my argument and tell me where i'm not making sense.

[Tyche]

Fuck yeah, Dungy is back!

[Mizango]

Not refute any of my statements because you can't? Check

I'm a Giants fan, and i'm still picking them to win. Just because I know the guy is better than what the stats show doesn't mean I like to suck his cock.

Edit: And if I'm so wrong, than break down my argument and tell me where i'm not making sense.

There is nothing to break down. You're retarded and comparing Moss to Rice is even more retarded. All I am saying is the "greatest" of all times don't go for weeks on end with 1 catch per game, or drop wide open bombs from Brady. Not taking anything from him, but you really are doing yourself a disservice with this whole argument. I mean we get it, you have whats called a man crush. Wanted to perform fallacious act on a star as a fan is nothing weird, I mean we get that.

I'm just saying, the record books, HoF and everyone except you can see that there is clearly nothing to even be disputed. You would have better luck proving to us that Harold Minor was/is better than Jordan. Let 'er rip!


"I play when I want to play"

^Quote from the greatest WR ever.

[Deejay]

And you somehow think that Wes Welker is the MVP of that offense.

I give you an example where another decent WR (Owens) caught 20 balls in a game thanks to Mr. Rice taking all of the double teams. I ask you how that is any different than the situation in NE and you still haven't explained why.

There is nothing to break down. You're retarded and comparing Moss to Rice is even more retarded.

Clue: No one brought up Rice in this thread until you did. All I did was say theres no way anyone can think that Wes motherfucking Welker is the MVP of the Patriots offense.

[Plow]

And you somehow think that Wes Welker is the MVP of that offense.

I give you an example where another decent WR (Owens) caught 20 balls in a game thanks to Mr. Rice taking all of the double teams. I ask you how that is any different than the situation in NE and you still haven't explained why.

Because Terrell Owens is terrible and never did anything outside of that game. Definitely never did jack shit without Rice around...

[Deejay]

And you somehow think that Wes Welker is the MVP of that offense.

I give you an example where another decent WR (Owens) caught 20 balls in a game thanks to Mr. Rice taking all of the double teams. I ask you how that is any different than the situation in NE and you still haven't explained why.

Because Terrell Owens is terrible and never did anything outside of that game. Definitely never did jack shit without Rice around...

Thanks for proving my point even more.

Wes Welker was clearly a 100 catch a game receiver before he went to the Pats. Clearly.

[Plow]

And you somehow think that Wes Welker is the MVP of that offense.

I give you an example where another decent WR (Owens) caught 20 balls in a game thanks to Mr. Rice taking all of the double teams. I ask you how that is any different than the situation in NE and you still haven't explained why.

Because Terrell Owens is terrible and never did anything outside of that game. Definitely never did jack shit without Rice around...

Thanks for proving my point even more.

Wes Welker was clearly a 100 catch a game receiver before he went to the Pats. Clearly.

In his whopping 3 years in the league, 1 year he played almost exclusively special teams, the next year he won the 3rd spot behind chambers and booker in an offense that rarely used a 3rd wr. In his 3rd, he hooked up with the world's best WR killer, Joey Harrington, and as the #3 LED THE FREAKING TEAM with 67 receptions and 687 yards. FOR THE DOLPHINS.


But Randy Moss, and Randy Moss alone makes him good.

[Deejay]

What does Wes Welker do in Miami that made him so great? He's a great checkdown receiver on a team that loves to pass, and that's it.

He averages less yards per catch than Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Kellen Winslow, Dallas Clark, Alge Crumpler, Chris Cooley... basically every starting TE in the league. And these are 260 pound Tight Ends that we're talking about. You know, guys that can't get down the field as good as WR's can.

[Plow]

What does Wes Welker do in Miami that made him so great? He's a great checkdown receiver on a team that loves to pass, and that's it.

He averages less yards per catch than Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Kellen Winslow, Dallas Clark, Alge Crumpler, Chris Cooley... basically every starting TE in the league. And these are 260 pound Tight Ends that we're talking about. You know, guys that can't get down the field as good as WR's can.

Because every catch they make is between 15-20 yards down the field either straight down the middle or the corner gaps in a cover 2... not to mention they catch like 1/3 as many balls...

[Deejay]

And every catch Welker makes is between 5-10 yards with a linebacker shadowing him. What is so prolific and MVP about that? The Patriots love to pass, what do you expect teams to try and defend? The long ball or a 5 yard dump off?

[tyven]

giants dont have a shot as long as Kevin Faulk walks god's green earth!

edit: seriously im praying in the off season when the patriots are debating giving Rando a huge contract, that Brady will come out on record and say Faulk is the best weapon on the team. then after a terrible start next year Randy can get interviewed by Michael Irvin and say they would be undefeated if Brett Favre was their quarterback. then BAM we get a boston version of Mcnabb vs. TO

[Plow]

What is so prolific and MVP about that?

3rd down.