Heath Ledger dead wtf O_O;

[kuronosan]

I just wanted to add one more comment if anyone thought my earlier remarks were callous: This obsession with celebrity and outpouring of interest for a relative non-event to me is rather sad. Yes it is sad that a young family has lost their father, and fans won't get to see anymore of his movies, but this has almost zero impact on the world. Bhutto gets two pages, which has the effect of changing the political scene in one of the most volatile nuclear powers in the world, and the star of A Knight's Tale gets 6 (and counting). This is like Anna Nicole Smith all over again. Bhutto's three children honestly face the prospect of assassination if they try to follow in their parent's footsteps in any type of activist role. It has the immediate effect of changing the global political scene and our foreign relations in the region. Domestically it affected the Presidential elections.

But who am I stop with a national(/global?) obsession. I just wanted to inject a little perspective.

Like it or not, celebrities are people too, and as such are capable of having an impact on someone's life.

[Kuya]

I just wanted to add one more comment if anyone thought my earlier remarks were callous: This obsession with celebrity and outpouring of interest for a relative non-event to me is rather sad. Yes it is sad that a young family has lost their father, and fans won't get to see anymore of his movies, but this has almost zero impact on the world. Bhutto gets two pages, which has the effect of changing the political scene in one of the most volatile nuclear powers in the world, and the star of A Knight's Tale gets 6 (and counting). This is like Anna Nicole Smith all over again. Bhutto's three children honestly face the prospect of assassination if they try to follow in their parent's footsteps in any type of activist role. It has the immediate effect of changing the global political scene and our foreign relations in the region. Domestically it affected the Presidential elections.

But who am I stop with a national(/global?) obsession. I just wanted to inject a little perspective.

Like it or not, celebrities are people too, and as such are capable of having an impact on someone's life.

That was a terrible counter-argument.

[kuronosan]

No it wasn't. Every day people have an impact on somebody's life at some point. So why is it so much less acceptable when a celebrity who had an impact that may have inspired others is mourned with tons of news, while somebody like Benizar Bhutto (who most people don't even know or weren't directly affected by) should get top billing? In the grand scheme of things of course the world probably needed Bhutto more than Heath Ledger but the main difference maker is that Ledger had his whole life ahead of him and died young. Not only that, I'm willing to bet Ledger indirectly saved lives from his fans connecting with him - which is how he would have impacted people.

It's a shame people like you and evilbaum see things so one-sided. Just because he wasn't as important to the world as some politician was doesn't mean he wasn't important to somebody.

[Demetrius*]

I'm willing to bet Ledger indirectly saved lives from his fans connecting with him - which is how he would have impacted people.

what lol

[evilbau]

No it wasn't. Every day people have an impact on somebody's life at some point. So why is it so much less acceptable when a celebrity who had an impact that may have inspired others is mourned with tons of news, while somebody like Benizar Bhutto (who most people don't even know or weren't directly affected by) should get top billing? In the grand scheme of things of course the world probably needed Bhutto more than Heath Ledger but the main difference maker is that Ledger had his whole life ahead of him and died young. Not only that, I'm willing to bet Ledger indirectly saved lives from his fans connecting with him - which is how he would have impacted people.

It's a shame people like you and evilbau see things so one-sided. Just because he wasn't as important to the world as some politician was doesn't mean he wasn't important to somebody.

If you read carefully I was talking about the obsession with his death, not his life. I'm all for tributes and maybe a nice slideshow of his movies and how he interacts with his fans and maybe the causes he believed in (if he had any). I'm condemning the 'OMG it was Mary Kate Olsen's Apt! Oh look that turned out false, look they are retracting it! LETS COOK UP VARIOUS SUICIDE SCENARIOS'

/sigh ... the things people care about...

[Kuya]

No it wasn't. Every day people have an impact on somebody's life at some point. So why is it so much less acceptable when a celebrity who had an impact that may have inspired others is mourned with tons of news, while somebody like Benizar Bhutto (who most people don't even know or weren't directly affected by) should get top billing?

You missed the point, and apperently, his entire post. He did not say that Heath did not deserve to be mourned, he was criticizing the fact that entertainers get far more attention than any other person who has astronomicaly much more importance. He was, in a sense, taking a shot at the fact that most people are in fact, uninformed and star struck. IE: Ignorant.

In the grand scheme of things of course the world probably needed Bhutto more than Heath Ledger but the main difference maker is that Ledger had his whole life ahead of him and died young. Not only that, I'm willing to bet Ledger indirectly saved lives from his fans connecting with him - which is how he would have impacted people.

Hey there tiger, did you forget how old Bhutto was? And as for the second point, that's just an assumption. In reality, it's probably just a horde of mouth breathing fat chicks who love replacing their own existences for celebrities. But hey, what you mentioned is also possible, although, highly unlikely.

It's a shame people like you and evilbaum see things so one-sided. Just because he wasn't as important to the world as some politician was doesn't mean he wasn't important to somebody.

Read my other posts in this thread, it helps if you plan to run your mouth. And once again, Evilbau never said he was not important to somebody, hell he downright said he was. You, however, decided to plant a whole alot of things where nothing was said.

[archibaldcrane]

Back on topic:

At 2:45 p.m., the massage therapist showed up for Ledger's appointment, knocked on his door and got no answer. She later noticed Ledger was unconscious and called Mary-Kate Olsen, whose number was programmed into Ledger's cell phone, to seek advice.

Olsen said she would send over her private security. In the ensuing moments, the massage therapist realized that Ledger might be dead, and called 911. Paramedics — and Olsen's security people — arrived minutes later.

[Xavier]

I just wanted to add one more comment if anyone thought my earlier remarks were callous: This obsession with celebrity and outpouring of interest for a relative non-event to me is rather sad. Yes it is sad that a young family has lost their father, and fans won't get to see anymore of his movies, but this has almost zero impact on the world. Bhutto gets two pages, which has the effect of changing the political scene in one of the most volatile nuclear powers in the world, and the star of A Knight's Tale gets 6 (and counting). This is like Anna Nicole Smith all over again. Bhutto's three children honestly face the prospect of assassination if they try to follow in their parent's footsteps in any type of activist role. It has the immediate effect of changing the global political scene and our foreign relations in the region. Domestically it affected the Presidential elections.

But who am I stop with a national(/global?) obsession. I just wanted to inject a little perspective.

I take issue with several things you said, because I believe that position is equally guilty of ignorance.

While I recognized the significance of Bhutto's death, and I said as much in her thread, most Americans, most young people, are simply not concerned with international relations. The average person had never heard of Bhutto, and so even while I believe the media accurately and extensively covered her death, our culture's appetite for the next big story meant any interest in her was short lived. Her impact on the lives of the people of Pakistan was no doubt profound and lasting, but her visibility in American culture was nonexistent.

To assume that a group of young adults who have potentially been very moved by Heath Ledger would exhibit the same response to a relatively unknown figure is at the very least wishful thinking. Our culture is one of fast paced entertainment, and as such it places a very heavy emphasis on our athletes and actors. One need look no further than the amount of attention they garner to realize that an actor is every bit as influential in forming public opinion as a politician, and through both public outreach and film roles has just as many opportunities to touch a person's life. Not every actor does, and not every actor or celebrity deserves the attention they generate, that's true. However, comparing Heath Ledger to Anna Nicole Smith is just ridiculous.

I guarantee that Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain touched lives, changed opinions, and helped gay issues gain further traction in mainstream America. To say that his death, or that any actor who uses their celebrity for the public good or takes on roles that challenge the status-quo of our culture is a relative non-event screams of ignorance. You say you're interjecting perspective, but I believe it ignores half the picture.

Movies touch lives. Actors embody those stories, those characters. There are bad actors, and there are good actors. There are actors who choose roles solely for money, and actors who choose roles because of their cultural impact and importance. It should be apparent that Ledger was finally emerging as a very versatile, serious actor, and whatever future cultural impacts he may of had on society as a result of his films will never be known. That is not to say that he should be mourned simply for the loss of his acting ability, but its certainly what hes known for.

Now, I agree that the focus should be on his life and not on the "juicy" details surrounding his death, and that aspect of our culture is definitely very regrettable.

[Kuya]

I guarantee that Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain touched lives, changed opinions, and helped gay issues gain further traction in mainstream America. To say that his death, or that any actor who uses their celebrity for the public good or takes on roles that challenge the status-quo of our culture is a relative non-event screams of ignorance. You say you're interjecting perspective, but I believe it ignores half the picture.

I have to admit, when i read this i had quite a laugh. Why, you may ask? Because, although Brokeback Mountain was lauded by critics as a very influential film, and it certainly was one, as it provided an outlook i've never seen before in a film, it received very little recognition from the public itself. So in the end, whether it be Bhutto's importance to the Middle East and the world as a whole, or Brokeback Mountain providing a window into the calimity that being a homosexual in a overly heterosexual world provides, the general public still did not give a fuck.

I find the current argument we are having ironic for this reason, and a little sad at the same time, because to many, Heath will just be known as that guy who kissed a guy (barring the Batman movies success) in a movie, instead of a very versatile actor and what you've already said. To think, all because most heterosexual men wounldn't want to be caught watching a gay themed film.

[Xavier]

I guarantee that Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain touched lives, changed opinions, and helped gay issues gain further traction in mainstream America. To say that his death, or that any actor who uses their celebrity for the public good or takes on roles that challenge the status-quo of our culture is a relative non-event screams of ignorance. You say you're interjecting perspective, but I believe it ignores half the picture.

I have to admit, when i read this i had quite a laugh. Why, you may ask? Because, although Brokeback Mountain was lauded by critics as a very influential film, and it certainly was one, as it provided an outlook i've never seen before in a film, it received very little recognition from the public itself. So in the end, whether it be Bhutto's importance to the Middle East and the world as a whole, or Brokeback Mountain providing a window into the calimity that being a homosexual in a overly heterosexual world provides, the general public still did not give a fuck.

You were living in a cave if you missed the absolute shit storm that erupted over the movie, and the non-stop hammering from channels like Fox News over it representing the erosion of American values. The general public, quite frankly, gave a fuck, even without seeing the movie, as people were either prejudicially referring to it as Gayback Mountain, Humpback Mountain, Fudgeback Mountain, etc, or praising it for its message.

It was the fifth highest grossing western and the eighth highest grossing romantic drama of all time, a big accomplishment for a movie that only a generation ago would never have seen the light of day. In a capitalistic society, turning a profit is akin to public recognition, and Brokeback Mountain did just that.

[Akiyama]

I thought Lance Armstrong's joke about Brokeback Mountain at the Espy's was pretty funny though.

[Kuya]

and the non-stop hammering from channels like Fox News over it representing the erosion of American values.

Are you serious lol? They said this?

I supose it did cause a comotion, but where i disagree is if it actually changed anything. Which i don't think it did to be honest.

[Xavier]

O'Reilly down talked the film almost every day around its release and the Oscars, as did a lot of others.

I don't totally disagree with you, but tolerance is a really hard thing to gauge until its put to the test.

[evilbau]

I take issue with several things you said, because I believe that position is equally guilty of ignorance.

While I recognized the significance of Bhutto's death, and I said as much in her thread, most Americans, most young people, are simply not concerned with international relations. The average person had never heard of Bhutto, and so even while I believe the media accurately and extensively covered her death, our culture's appetite for the next big story meant any interest in her was short lived. Her impact on the lives of the people of Pakistan was no doubt profound and lasting, but her visibility in American culture was nonexistent.

I commend you for your insight in that thread, I enjoyed reading what you wrote on that topic. You are talking about the reality of our collective celebrity obsession and I totally agree: that is how it is. I simply remarked I am saddened by it. In my mind, I ask questions like 'What would it take for them begin to care? When India and Pakistan start tossing nukes at each other like cream pies? When Pakistan completely buckles and submits to the interests of radical fundamentalists and it becomes a nation supporting terrorism?' I don't bring up these topics online or in real life because people simply don't know the situation enough or don't want to talk about it. This is the reality and I made a throw-away comment so that maybe some might agree its not important to know how many Ambien Heath took.

To assume that a group of young adults who have potentially been very moved by Heath Ledger would exhibit the same response to a relatively unknown figure is at the very least wishful thinking. Our culture is one of fast paced entertainment, and as such it places a very heavy emphasis on our athletes and actors. One need look no further than the amount of attention they garner to realize that an actor is every bit as influential in forming public opinion as a politician, and through both public outreach and film roles has just as many opportunities to touch a person's life. Not every actor does, and not every actor or celebrity deserves the attention they generate, that's true. However, comparing Heath Ledger to Anna Nicole Smith is just ridiculous.

I have no expectation of (most) young adults acting in that way. It is indicative of American culture, and I'm certainly not going to change that. If that wasn't the case, I would feel no need to 'inject some perspective,' people would already have it. I don't think people care, but perhaps I am trying to guilt anyone who reads my comments to care... maybe a little bit?

"We are in the process of creating what deserves to be called the idiot culture. Not an idiot sub-culture, which every society has bubbling beneath the surface and which can provide harmelss fun; but the culture itself. for the first time, the weird and the stupid and the coarse are becoming our cultural norm, even our cultural ideal."
- Carl Bernstein

I guarantee that Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain touched lives, changed opinions, and helped gay issues gain further traction in mainstream America. To say that his death, or that any actor who uses their celebrity for the public good or takes on roles that challenge the status-quo of our culture is a relative non-event screams of ignorance. You say you're interjecting perspective, but I believe it ignores half the picture.

Movies touch lives. Actors embody those stories, those characters. There are bad actors, and there are good actors. There are actors who choose roles solely for money, and actors who choose roles because of their cultural impact and importance. It should be apparent that Ledger was finally emerging as a very versatile, serious actor, and whatever future cultural impacts he may of had on society as a result of his films will never be known. That is not to say that he should be mourned simply for the loss of his acting ability, but its certainly what hes known for.

Now, I agree that the focus should be on his life and not on the "juicy" details surrounding his death, and that aspect of our culture is definitely very regrettable.

Again, my point is concerning the media circus surrounding his death, and not his life. But I could see how someone could interpret my statements as disparaging him, his being 'merely an actor.' In that, my comparison to Anna Nicole Smith I believe still stands: the details and aftermath surrounding their deaths are not particularly newsworthly, imo. I was not comparing their character in life, but the morbid fascination after death.

[Lordwafik]

The dumbest part about Anna Nicole Smith's death was the Law and Order episode. I mean, I know it's hard to write for such a long running series, but seriously, it hadn't even been 3 months No respect for the dead.

Which is case in point of Evilbau, Media will suck satan's cock in hell for a story. If it's a celebrity, even better, because of that whole "everyone relates to the celebrity"-ism that goes on in the states.

[archibaldcrane]

The dumbest part about Anna Nicole Smith's death was the Law and Order episode. ... No respect for the dead.

Did people have respect for Anna Nicole Smith when she was alive?

[Lordwafik]

The dumbest part about Anna Nicole Smith's death was the Law and Order episode. ... No respect for the dead.

Did people have respect for Anna Nicole Smith when she was alive?

No FREEEEEAKING GEEEEEEEEEEEENIOUSSSSSSSSSSSS


but still, cashing in on the story of someone who just died is kind of pathetic, I lost respect for the writers of that show when they did that. Oh also when they cloned the NASA Diaper psycho lady story, that was the last straw for me watching normal television. Now I only watch select shows that I'm reccomended.

[AzazaelFenrir]

The dumbest part about Anna Nicole Smith's death was the Law and Order episode. ... No respect for the dead.

Did people have respect for Anna Nicole Smith when she was alive?

No FREEEEEAKING GEEEEEEEEEEEENIOUSSSSSSSSSSSS


but still, cashing in on the story of someone who just died is kind of pathetic, I lost respect for the writers of that show when they did that. Oh also when they cloned the NASA Diaper psycho lady story, that was the last straw for me watching normal television. Now I only watch select shows that I'm reccomended.

The writers for Law and Order don't worry about fiction anymore, they just get every national newspaper and pick a month old event to poach. And on the plus side they never have to change the promo for the next episode. "On the next episode of Law an Order and ripped straight from the headlines!"

[Gilanth]

http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/1...247/heath1.jpg

[Xavier]

The worst is when Law and Order decides its going to "right justice" by ripping a case from the headlines and changing the outcome.