13k accounts banned (1/24)

[Intense]

SE reminds me of those people who say theyve been playing FFXI for 7~ years now.

Do you think they are lying about the number of accounts banned? Just curious.

I think theyre exaggerating (with obviously no solid proof to back my thoughts up). Its like those DA administrations who say theyre tough on crime and fabricate charges on a person to prove it.

So without evidence you admit this is just your hunch? And I am curious what you believe their motivation to exaggerate would be? What do you believe is there incentive to start exaggerating now, instead of at any point prior to this?

Ultimately, I believe statements like these are a kin to the old statements that SE was working with the gilsellers, and other conspiracy theories that were derived because angry players were looking for explanations to issues in the game that they wanted resolved, but were not being addressed.

The developers are not evil, liars or out to get us. Often times they are oblivious to the concerns of the players, and sometimes they want us to play the game their specific way, but I do believe they want the players to be happy playing the game that they create, while understanding that not everything they do will make everyone happy.

Because they want the playerbase to have faith that theyre taking care of the problem. For the record, Ive never thought that SE/GM's are working with gilsellers, in fact Ive silently thought lesser of people who think that.

Oblivious, maybe, but this is another topic for another thread I think.

BTW, fabricating charges against anyone is highly illegal

Im fully aware of whats illegal, but it happens all the time, esp in my county. Everyone loves a DA who claims to be tough on crime and gangs, until theyre hauled in on trumped up charges. I just likened the two. But how can anyone but SE know theyre exaggerating numbers? They can tell us whatever they want and wed really be none the wiser...

[Spira]

If this is the real number of people getting banned, it might explain why people feel the game is thinning out.

It could be that the 13000 is accounted for by those RMTs who simply purchase codes again and again once they get banned. And since they're getting banned faster, they're buying new codes faster. It will probably reach the stage where they feel it isn't even profitable to keep doing this cycle anymore and give up on making money from this game.

If the number is made up, I suppose it might be used as a deterrent for people to use 3rd party tools, engage in RMT or cheats, because quite evidently SE wants to put up the stance that they don't condone anyone who commits offenses and will impose widespread bans even if it means losing a huge chunk of business.

I'm quite certain FFXI is still making profit anyway.. Its probably way ahead of costs now. MMORPGs are crazy income units, kinda like what casinos are to hotels on the LV strip.

[Sekkite]

It's bullshit, their's no way they'd ban so many. ~430 accounts per server when theirs 2-3k accounts online at any given time... no way. They probably mean 13,000 characters, where each RMT account has the max number of characters allowed (16?), and just misworded it to look better.

I think you grossly underestimate how easily RMT can get new accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these bannings are repeat of the same people in such a short time frame.

That in addition to the fact that not everyone is online on a server at the same time, so 430 accounts banned would not mean a reduction of 430 active accounts per server.

[Viena]

How possible is it that the number of banned accounts increased because of the stolen characters being used in a shady way by RMT?

[Lexa]

Another thing to consider is that a lot of the banned players keep coming back, they just buy accounts and keep on doing the same old shit (lolFeiwong anyone?). Even though eBay removes most FFXI account sales rather fast, if you go to eBay and do a search, there will be at least ten or so new accounts popping up each day - and that's only the ones being sold on eBay. I know of people who's sold their accounts, or tried to, through word of mouth, friends, acquaintances, etc. Hell, one of my old ls members tried to sell his account and managed to get a $1000+ offer for it without listing it anywhere at all (though eventually he decided against it and gave the account to a friend of ours instead).

Not to mention how many new accounts RMTs start up every day/week/month. I can guarantee not every account banned is at endgame level. A lot of the RMT-parties I've seen leveling up never make it to 75. A lot of RMTs also hit 75, or get to where they need to get, and then get banned. Valefor doesn't have RMT in sea, and never did - except for the one time a whole alliance+ (all taru BLMs and two galka PLDs) made it to sea. My ls saw them there and went "aw shit." The very next day, they were all banhammered.

[evilpaul]

I do remember them mentioning in one of the STF reports that they would be taking action on gil buyers, too.

God, I hope so.

It sounded like it could be either to me, honestly. We reportedly had some notorious gilbuyers banned on Hades recently, so it seems at least possible.

Some random RMTiness I've noticed on Hades...
- There's a LOT of /anon Tarutaru BLMs all running around on Hades again.
- There was also a /anon Tarutaru who was appearing at the entrance of Kazham and disappearing to somewhere (not at the entrance) in Yuhtunga Jungle.
- I haven't fished on the Ferry lately, but I kind of figure that SE didn't do anything about those RMTs either.

[Khamsin]

There is no twenty-fourth month

"Twenty fourth day of the first month" sounds a lot better than "The first months twenty fourth day"

"January 24th" sounds a lot better than "Twenty fourth day of the first month"

As for whether SE makes money anymore, and 13k accounts, well... you do the math. 13k new FFXI boxes off store shelves x $(price of FFXI) + 1 month x ($13 + $1 per mule on account) = a decent chunk of change for the month. Especially if they had 15 mules on each account. It's not much compared to their overall revenue, I'm sure, but I'm betting the STFU at least pays for itself.

[Kenji]

Another thing to consider is that a lot of the banned players keep coming back, they just buy accounts and keep on doing the same old shit (lolFeiwong anyone?). Even though eBay removes most FFXI account sales rather fast, if you go to eBay and do a search, there will be at least ten or so new accounts popping up each day - and that's only the ones being sold on eBay. I know of people who's sold their accounts, or tried to, through word of mouth, friends, acquaintances, etc. Hell, one of my old ls members tried to sell his account and managed to get a $1000+ offer for it without listing it anywhere at all (though eventually he decided against it and gave the account to a friend of ours instead).

Not to mention how many new accounts RMTs start up every day/week/month. I can guarantee not every account banned is at endgame level. A lot of the RMT-parties I've seen leveling up never make it to 75. A lot of RMTs also hit 75, or get to where they need to get, and then get banned. Valefor doesn't have RMT in sea, and never did - except for the one time a whole alliance+ (all taru BLMs and two galka PLDs) made it to sea. My ls saw them there and went "aw shit." The very next day, they were all banhammered.

But they waste a lot of time and money doing so. In one of those specials where they went over to china and interviewed the sweatshop people, they talked about how, even in WoW, some RMT businesses had to shut down after mass bannings. And it takes a whole lot more time and effort to level in FFXI. I think the reason we're seeing mass hackings, is because RMT have found themselves losing money trying to level to 75. Sky/sea are off limits to them now. It's a huge investment to make that no longer pays off. So they try to hack a high level character now, gain it's assets, and then try to use what little time they have on the character to farm gil.

Banned people can come back and play the game again, with a new account. If they try the same stupid crap again that got them banned in the first place, they simply get banned again. Wasted money in my opinion, but it is their money.

[Intense]

I do remember them mentioning in one of the STF reports that they would be taking action on gil buyers, too.

God, I hope so.

It sounded like it could be either to me, honestly. We reportedly had some notorious gilbuyers banned on Hades recently, so it seems at least possible.

Some random RMTiness I've noticed on Hades...
- There's a LOT of /anon Tarutaru BLMs all running around on Hades again.
- There was also a /anon Tarutaru who was appearing at the entrance of Kazham and disappearing to somewhere (not at the entrance) in Yuhtunga Jungle.
- I haven't fished on the Ferry lately, but I kind of figure that SE didn't do anything about those RMTs either.

You know, the other day I was commenting in LS chat about this /anon'd, gearless, ls'less, taru who kept running out from Kazham to Yuhtunga every 1-2 minutes. I was distracted by my incompetant PT (as most in the jungle are) so I didnt really investigate it further. ;o

[Lexa]

But they waste a lot of time and money doing so. In one of those specials where they went over to china and interviewed the sweatshop people, they talked about how, even in WoW, some RMT businesses had to shut down after mass bannings. And it takes a whole lot more time and effort to level in FFXI. I think the reason we're seeing mass hackings, is because RMT have found themselves losing money trying to level to 75. Sky/sea are off limits to them now. It's a huge investment to make that no longer pays off. So they try to hack a high level character now, gain it's assets, and then try to use what little time they have on the character to farm gil.

Banned people can come back and play the game again, with a new account. If they try the same stupid crap again that got them banned in the first place, they simply get banned again. Wasted money in my opinion, but it is their money.

Because nobody ever wastes money in FFXI, amirite? How many gilbuyers have been exposed throughout the years, having bought gil for thousands of dollars? If that's not wasted money, then I don't know what is.

RMTs are clearly losing money with the new mass bannings - just looks at the upswing in hacked accounts recently. That doesn't mean that hacking legit players' accounts are the only way they make their money nowadays, though, it just means starting new POL IDs and leveling them up isn't as profitable as it used to be.

[Gergall]

My question now is just how do they even find it freaking profitable: If all it took was 9.99$ US (or 15.99$, whatever they charge for the IDs, obviously RMT don't need the software) to make a new account

As for whether SE makes money anymore, and 13k accounts, well... you do the math. 13k new FFXI boxes off store shelves x $(price of FFXI) + 1 month x ($13 + $1 per mule on account) = a decent chunk of change for the month. Especially if they had 15 mules on each account. It's not much compared to their overall revenue, I'm sure, but I'm betting the STFU at least pays for itself.

The FFXI Starter Pack is $1.99 and the first 30 days are free. Fishbots and level 1 miners don't need to live any longer than that. Also, I doubt they are making mules on these accounts. Why would they?

Edit: It occurs to me that the price must be even cheaper in other countries, and there is also a possibility that they get a bulk price discount.

[Kyreth]

Some random RMTiness I've noticed on Hades...
- There's a LOT of /anon Tarutaru BLMs all running around on Hades again.
- There was also a /anon Tarutaru who was appearing at the entrance of Kazham and disappearing to somewhere (not at the entrance) in Yuhtunga Jungle.
- I haven't fished on the Ferry lately, but I kind of figure that SE didn't do anything about those RMTs either.

1) Yep. I noticed a spike in the sales of BLM quest items (notably in Windurst, it's Test Answers) at the local AH. Sounds like they're trying. Again. It's like watching special children push the "Pull" signed door.

2) Fireblossom vine quest, they're warphacking back and forth to do it.

3) At least on the ferries, something can eat the little botting fuckers regularly. Needs more ferry spawning tentacle rapists (hi2uSea Horror) to get em good, though.

[Khamsin]

Edit: It occurs to me that the price must be even cheaper in other countries, and there is also a possibility that they get a bulk price discount.

Why would SE offer a bulk price discount on FFXI?

[Sekkite]

Some random RMTiness I've noticed on Hades...
- There's a LOT of /anon Tarutaru BLMs all running around on Hades again.
- There was also a /anon Tarutaru who was appearing at the entrance of Kazham and disappearing to somewhere (not at the entrance) in Yuhtunga Jungle.
- I haven't fished on the Ferry lately, but I kind of figure that SE didn't do anything about those RMTs either.

1) Yep. I noticed a spike in the sales of BLM quest items (notably in Windurst, it's Test Answers) at the local AH. Sounds like they're trying. Again. It's like watching special children push the "Pull" signed door.

2) Fireblossom vine quest, they're warphacking back and forth to do it.

3) At least on the ferries, something can eat the little botting fuckers regularly. Needs more ferry spawning tentacle rapists (hi2uSea Horror) to get em good, though.

Sea Serpent Grotto needs a Sahagin Bounty Hunter as well.

[Gergall]

Edit: It occurs to me that the price must be even cheaper in other countries, and there is also a possibility that they get a bulk price discount.

Why would SE offer a bulk price discount on FFXI?

I think we can agree that SE sells copies of its games to resellers for less than the MSRP. Otherwise, nobody would bother carrying games from SE (0 profit).

It's then up to a crooked reseller to decide if they want to sell bulk copies to RMT for a price that falls somewhere between what they paid and the MSRP.

This may not be happening at all, but I have learned to never underestimate what people will do for money.

[Khamsin]

Edit: It occurs to me that the price must be even cheaper in other countries, and there is also a possibility that they get a bulk price discount.

Why would SE offer a bulk price discount on FFXI?

I think we can agree that SE sells copies of its games to resellers for less than the MSRP. Otherwise, nobody would bother carrying games from SE (0 profit).

It's then up to a crooked reseller to decide if they want to sell bulk copies to RMT for a price that falls somewhere between what they paid and the MSRP.

This may not be happening at all, but I have learned to never underestimate what people will do for money.

Could be possible, I wonder if SE can track where the banned accounts were bought. e.g. "All 13k of these accounts had reg codes from that bulk shipment we sent to that reseller in China last month." And then just choose not to sell to that reseller anymore.

Also... a 30 day trial won't cut it for most RMT. It only works for the RMT that repeat quests, manipulate the AH, or do one round of gardening. However, all the RMTs that farm things or synth or perform other actions that take more than what a level 1 character can do are hurt and can not get by with only a 30 day free trial off the starter pack. Every month, I see a new alliance of anon taru BLMs levelling or some new melees whacking goobbues in zitah 24/7, and it takes time to get there. Given that those accounts must now gone, too, they'll have to do it all over again.

[Mizango]

I do remember them mentioning in one of the STF reports that they would be taking action on gil buyers, too.

God, I hope so.

[Septimus]

If they don't disable POS hacking and flee hacking everything that they do is worthless since they can create new level characters who can pop around Mount Zhayolm mining away with no fear or pop around doing other quests like the Southern San d'Oria [S] ones. Destroy their illegal movement and you have instantly increased the time that it takes them to do anything by 10-20 fold.

[aurik]

If they don't disable POS hacking and flee hacking everything that they do is worthless since they can create new level characters who can pop around Mount Zhayolm mining away with no fear or pop around doing other quests like the Southern San d'Oria [S] ones. Destroy their illegal movement and you have instantly increased the time that it takes them to do anything by 10-20 fold.

It really is ludicrous that the FFXI servers allow such blatantly illegal "error-correction" when it comes to movement. I understand why they allow some fudging -- to cover for lag -- but permitting corrections that enable them to move farther than 50 yalms in a second is just lazy server-side programming.

[ringthree]

If they don't disable POS hacking and flee hacking everything that they do is worthless since they can create new level characters who can pop around Mount Zhayolm mining away with no fear or pop around doing other quests like the Southern San d'Oria [S] ones. Destroy their illegal movement and you have instantly increased the time that it takes them to do anything by 10-20 fold.

It really is ludicrous that the FFXI servers allow such blatantly illegal "error-correction" when it comes to movement. I understand why they allow some fudging -- to cover for lag -- but permitting corrections that enable them to move farther than 50 yalms in a second is just lazy server-side programming.

They mentioned they are working on solutions to this at the fan festival, I think that they even mentioned that it would be server-side (but I may have that reversed).