13k accounts banned (1/24)

[Khamsin]

I think SE are including deleted characters in that figure.

They didn't include any characters, only individual accounts. 13k unique POL IDs went down the drain.

That impression stems from how SE handled/is handling the issue, when everything first broke out and people were calling SE the reps on the phone didnt take anything people said seriously and told people to go on wild goose chases for their accounts back and even worse cases just hung up the phone on their paying customers while RMT were looting all over the place. Telling someone to go to their states DA for a subpoena for a virtual slab of data? Rediculous. add the fact was that it wasnt just 10,20 or even 100 people but much more and many people see that as SE being their enemy. Yes, policy is something reps have to follow but also common sense and noticing a pattern should be enough to have someone look into it. Every other MMO takes it seriously, SE shouldnt be any different - why it wasnt taken seriously as a possible threat up until december is baffling.

Regardless of how poorly SE handled it, they were not the ones who hacked you, therefore it is not their fault. Again, if somebody commits an act that they claim is in retaliation for a third party's actions, it is not that third party's fault. You are right that SE could have done a better job helping their customers overcome this. Fault them for being unprepared for the situation if you want. But they are not responsible for the hackings.

In many cases in situations like this (the whole A offends B, so B attacks C thing), A is in some way responsible for C. Whether it be a government and its people, or SE and its customers. Otherwise, that particular tactic would be ineffective, especially since their real goal is to get to A by turning C against them. Perhaps in the effort to persuade A to change how they do things. It's ultimately a form of terrorism. Not in a dramatic post-9/11 sense, I'm not worried about chinese suicide bombers. But that's what that form of persuasion amounts to.

[ronin sparthos]

Regardless of how poorly SE handled it, they were not the ones who hacked you, therefore it is not their fault. Again, if somebody commits an act that they claim is in retaliation for a third party's actions, it is not that third party's fault. You are right that SE could have done a better job helping their customers overcome this. Fault them for being unprepared for the situation if you want. But they are not responsible for the hackings.

Im just pointing out the fact that SE handled this very poorly, which will ultimately mean in your terms that B will keep on attacking C and A will keep playing the 'sorry we didnt do it' card. SE is a company, companies want to make money and in order to keep making money you need a playerbase. (FF has had one of the most 'respectable' playerbases so far, in my opinion - hackings go mainstream and all that will be poisoned.) What it boils down to is that ultimately it will be A that dictates what B does and C will always be the helpless letter in the circle. (How helpless depends on the person) Now i have no idea what SE is cooking up (possibly new security measures, a solution to just fixing those affected who knows) but they share as much fault as the customer. (customer for getting infected, SE for not being prepared) SE being responsible for the hackings? I think they are as much a victim as a hacked person is (imagine the managers dismay at all this mess that needs to be cleaned.) but whats to be lost on SEs end versus a hacked person is where the line is drawn, it also affects the non-hacked playerbase as well.

[Kenji]

There are plenty of people who continue to play, just to level new jobs, too. Alt-itis works much better in FFXI, because you have 1 character that can do it all, as opposed to a seperate character per class. Even if they get everything they ever wanted on one class, they'll start leveling another. Some just play for friends.

People play for many different reasons. Making more things rare/ex that are the result of player effort, rather than gil, can only be a good thing. I'd wager that the person that leaves because they have everything, is dwafed by the number of people who continue to play even despite getting everything they wanted on one job.

[BerenTebogo]

Need to ban these 6 RMT BLM out here mana-burning Wivres and being the only source of them into the AH, jacking up the price on me.

Grararar.

[Aymee]

tbh I'm surprised SE hasn't started merging servers together yet.
does anybody know a website that produces sales figures for video games?
I'd love to see how many new players FFXI gets each month/year.

SE is just not going to let XI die. Scold me for not posting source (I'm lazy and tired), but I recall something I read off gamespy or something a few months ago... it gave SE's income and profits for fiscal year ending September 30 2007. Everything was profitable and well in the black, but by percentage the 'online division' (xi and, uh...) had just a sick margin, and was actually like 40-50% of the company's total profits. Investors look at those kinds of numbers and go "wow that's awesome, they must be doing a freaking awesome job in that division"... I mean a Japanese brokerage firm has no clue what's actually going on with us.

Decaying or no, they're obviously still making a freaking ton of money off XI. It would take a lot yet for them to combine servers yet, imo. If they did so, they would be publicly admitting weakness in their online services, and investors--or company boards of directors--do not like to hear such things. If the segment of the company that boasts the most profit is weakening, it's a sign of a weaker company in general. When you read 'statistics' like server populations, total number of accounts and characters, etc., a lot of it is to make it look more appealing to the consumer, but some of it has to do with looking strong to investors and so people can report fatter number to their higher-ups. Even when profits start to go down, it's still PROFIT... not like there's a ton of upkeep and development compared to all our monthlies. XI could well be around for god-knows-how-long until they do actually work out their expansions to the south, west, north, and far-east as have all been mentioned before.


...As for bringing in new people, it seems like they're obviously aware of the problem. The $2 starter packs are a decent idea. Honestly I'm surprised they haven't gone to a free trial with a download or mailed disks for price of shipping. Far more people might try to jump in a little if it was completely free and didn't require a credit card number to start. Just lock those characters from trading gil/items and using delivery until they have an actual account (this would be the anti-RMT measure). I know plenty of people that are just generic FF or RPG fans whom would probably give things a shot.
Combine that with a lvlcapping option for us so we can repopulate starter zones to exp and you've got a chance to bring in some kind of progressive newer generation. I can't see what the problem would be with letting us cap ourselves at lower levels so we could exp with friends or for fun in other areas. Not like you can get 20k/hr with chain 500 in the dunes, and it would be an amusing feature. This would also go a long way to solving merit cap overcrowding if you and friends could cap yourselves and goof off elsewhere (but still for exp/merits).

[Khamsin]

tbh I'm surprised SE hasn't started merging servers together yet.

They have to be low on subscribers and have low population servers before they can do that. Can you imagine if they merged, say, Odin and Bahamut?

Generally, you only see that sort of thing with games that have thinning populations and are dying out.

[Zak]

They have to be low on subscribers and have low population servers before they can do that. Can you imagine if they merged, say, Odin and Bahamut?

Why would they merge the two most populated servers? I can see them merging servers like Midgard and Garuda someday though.

[Tdizzle]

Need more bannings of the RMT doing the price manipulation of assault earrings, melody+1's, brown belts, etc across most servers. I'm sure it's probably mules or something because I couldnt find any of them on last night but the STF needs to get on the ball again! Brown belt went from 300kish yesterday morning to 100k in 2 sales.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=1146819
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=1146817
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=1146815

[Soldier]

It's bullshit, their's no way they'd ban so many. ~430 accounts per server when theirs 2-3k accounts online at any given time... no way. They probably mean 13,000 characters, where each RMT account has the max number of characters allowed (16?), and just misworded it to look better.

FTW!!!!

[Soldier]

If they don't disable POS hacking and flee hacking everything that they do is worthless since they can create new level characters who can pop around Mount Zhayolm mining away with no fear or pop around doing other quests like the Southern San d'Oria [S] ones. Destroy their illegal movement and you have instantly increased the time that it takes them to do anything by 10-20 fold.

Knowledge is STRONG with this one.

[blister1]

I wasn't expecting much done when I filed a GM report on a rather blatant tele-bot two weeks ago. Did a search yesterday of the dude and he wasn't on, did one today and the same. Guess he got the banstick, although I'll miss shouting for 500g tele's and not waiting longer than 10 seconds

[Lucavi]

Also, most of the people still playing ffxi are playing it b/c it's hard. It's annoying but when you actually do something there's a real sense of acomplishment.

That's what all the punch-drunk masochists say, but if that were the case, smns wouldn't be complaining about how long it takes to hit 75, thf's wouldn't have ever complained about a lack of a good end-game role pre-feint, no one would have complained that sams were game-breaking initially after their update, no non-rng jobs would have complained about arrowburn, because all that stuff just makes it harder for the other guy, but there's a real sense of accomplishment when you finally struggle and get what you want, amirite?

I absolutely detest that line of thinking -- its justifying needless suffering and accepting the fact that things are not the way they should be. Should we all love camping a mob for hours a day for a 3% drop that thousands of people want, because it gives you a real sense of accomplishment once you get it? Should we all fall in love with Ein because slogging through it gives you a real sense of accomplishment? Should we all ride a bike with flat tires up a bumpy mountain road because doing so gives you a real sense of accomplishment?

No task should be too easy at end-game, but no task so should be outright impossible if it is a task that the grand majority wants to experience. If you claim that the majority of people play FFXI play it because its "hard", then why is cheating so rampant among the top? Why does just about every HNMLS bot? Why did people fleehack all day before SE started cracking down on it? Why did so many of the top big name shells on hades lose huge numbers of their flock from POSing here and flee hacking there? Why do so many people buy gil, and why were so many banned, and came right back? If everyone is searching for this magical challenge and hardship, why do they take such steps to make the game easier?

I know the answers to all these -- people want an edge on the other guy. But if there's no need for that edge, because things have the right amount of accessibility, difficulty, and reward to allow for large groups of people to earn their own shit without stepping on everyone else's toes, why is that looked upon as some "easy button"? Why do we equivocate fairness as easiness in FFXI? Its like you relish the thought of fighting not just against the mobs, but also against other people to get the mobs, which you can do in other games (like WoW), but then you get defensive and trash those other games. Its an idiotic cycle.

FFXI players are some of the most thick-headed people I've ever seen. Some have managed to turn pure suffering (somehow I managed to turn 75 levels of social stigma, 3-17 hour LFG times back in 04, loldrg this and loldrg that, and roughly a year and a half of suffering into a warped sense of accomplishment when I finally hit the big 75 -- but then I woke up) into a sense of "pride and accomplishment" once they make it to the end, but does anyone remember the middle? Does everyone forget how badly the struggle was, and how much they may have hated this or that while working their way up?

I don't buy the "people play FFXI because it's hard" logic anymore. Most of my LS bought it because it was Final Fantasy, but online. I bought it because I could be my favorite FF job in a MMO setting. I'm positive that the majority of people here didn't buy FFXI with some expectation that it was the hardest, most frustrating MMO in terms of actual progression (if you're playing the wrong jobs in the wrong era, of course -- compare leveling rng in the arrowburn days to leveling rng pre-snapshot, or leveling blm post-arrowburn to leveling blm post-ToAU). It was to be with friends, or to try something new, or because they didn't like the other MMOs out there, or because they saw the hawt mithra, but I can't fathom that the majority of the population has some hard-on fixation with engaging in the most grueling, mind-numbing repetitiveness and SE-supported frustration for a pittance of a chance of a good item so they can have a twisted sense of "accomplishment".

SE wouldn't have had these RMT problems, mass-hackings, gilbuying woes, POS and MPK issues, and scores of their other "game softening" worries if the game did actually provide the right amount of challenge-vs-reward that some people are claiming it does. Just because you're in a HNMLS that gets you your items does not mean your HNMLS doesn't have dirty hands when it comes (and came) to getting your items, and many people admit to that. So if you've had to either cheat or join a cheating group of friends just to advance yourself past a certain point, how in the blue hell is the game properly balanced?

[ronin sparthos]

Well put, even if it is the truth no one wants to hear >.> (I spoonfed myself, 'this is gonna be worth it!' when CoP beat me to a pulp back before SE pulled the plug on it. SE hosed it and now it feels less of an accomplishment.)

That's what all the punch-drunk masochists say, but if that were the case, smns wouldn't be complaining about how long it takes to hit 75, thf's wouldn't have ever complained about a lack of a good end-game role pre-feint, no one would have complained that sams were game-breaking initially after their update, no non-rng jobs would have complained about arrowburn, because all that stuff just makes it harder for the other guy, but there's a real sense of accomplishment when you finally struggle and get what you want, amirite?

Nothing changes until we the players bitch enough for something of change~

[Day]

Also, most of the people still playing ffxi are playing it b/c it's hard. It's annoying but when you actually do something there's a real sense of acomplishment.

Big Post

That was an excellent post man. One of the best I've seen in a while, I couldn't have said it any better.

[Siatdiat]

Roanoke, VA huh? I live out near Garden City.

[Day]

(Sorry for derail)

Cool man, I actually live in Ferrum, but work in Roanoke... small world :D

[neochaos]

That guy was prob right when he said a good amount of ppl like end-game shit to be uselessly difficult, etc. That said:

FF subscribers: i imagine somewhere far below 1mil

WoW Subscribers: 10mil+

People like easy, [fact]. If people wanted a challenge, gilbuying would be low, because they want that "sense of accomplishment" from farming beehive chips or tree cuttings for hours, and hours, and leading on to days worth of farming time, to get a mil or so, for that piece of armor which is generally just marginally better than what you have. If people wanted to do things the legit way, iifuzz or w/e wouldn't be banking off of FFXI players by selling an effective bot.

What SE should do is add stuff in the game that is so mind-blowingly difficult, but has badass gear thats 100%. I like difficulty in games, I do NOT like needless time consumption whilst waiting on that luck I'll never have to kick in. I feel NO sense of accomplishment after leaving something I was doing worthwhile to go do a 2hr+ tiamat fight for a fucking fire crystal.

[Lucavi]

Well put, even if it is the truth no one wants to hear >.>

Thank you: I'm glad I'm not alone on this.

That was an excellent post man. One of the best I've seen in a while, I couldn't have said it any better.

Many thanks. I try.

What SE should do is add stuff in the game that is so mind-blowingly difficult, but has badass gear thats 100%. I like difficulty in games, I do NOT like needless time consumption whilst waiting on that luck I'll never have to kick in. I feel NO sense of accomplishment after leaving something I was doing worthwhile to go do a 2hr+ tiamat fight for a fucking fire crystal.

Agreed, and with the current system of FFXI, it seems to be easier to hold out against retarded strong mobs than to beat retarded strong mobs. I'd still like to see a system where your only goal is to survive. It's really, really hard to cheat in this game when it comes to outright damage mitigation and curing, outside of programs that count shadows and have timers (though in the grand scheme of things, I'd call them more of advancements than outright cheats). The game also has a strange system of damage scaling where a mob will gain far more defense than attack as its levels increase, to the point where fafnir didn't hit very hard, yet the majority of the DD had a big problem actually hitting it for solid double digits awhile back. I'd like to see an arena that pits you against mobs so strong that your only objective is survival, and then you get the goods. If you win the fight, hurray, there's your sense of twisted accomplishment, but the real test is just staying alive long enough to reach the goal.

Either this, or have more fights where you need to systematically disable parts of a fight in order to weaken the boss, then strike the final blows. Pretty much every fight is standard -- beat it up until it falls over or beats you up. For a game that people supposedly call "challenging at endgame", there's not a lot of strategy that goes into most fights unless the mob takes flight eventually or switches between physical and magical immunity, and neither of those really involved a lot of developing thought-power on the hands of SE.

I know asking the Japanese to think outside the box (in any area outside of robotics or borderline pedophilia) is a tall order, but for the sake of some of their on-the-fringe customers (I've all but said goodbye to everyone), a little change of pace would be lovely.

eople like easy, [fact]. If people wanted a challenge, gilbuying would be low, because they want that "sense of accomplishment" from farming beehive chips or tree cuttings for hours, and hours, and leading on to days worth of farming time, to get a mil or so, for that piece of armor which is generally just marginally better than what you have.

I agree. Look at the +1 items in this game compared to most MMOs: They're pathetic. maybe an extra 5 defense, another stat, or a single percentage increase on haste - we're supposed to spend tens of thousands of gil and hunt for lavish materials for that? Paladin AF+1 is the biggest joke to +1 I've ever seen, outside of feet, and that's only because of the shield skill. Slightly increased defense does nothing. Slightly increased hp does nothing. An extra enimity is nice, but c'mon. Seriously. None of it is really worth the effort unless you're trying to just have the "best" of everything, and its a shame that the "best" in this game really isn't all that hot in the majority of areas, unless it drops from salvage or RotZ. Many relics have even denigrated to "eh" status; not that some of them were all that hot to begin with.

[Lucavi]

Well put, even if it is the truth no one wants to hear >.>

Thank you: I'm glad I'm not alone on this.

That was an excellent post man. One of the best I've seen in a while, I couldn't have said it any better.

Many thanks. I try.

What SE should do is add stuff in the game that is so mind-blowingly difficult, but has badass gear thats 100%. I like difficulty in games, I do NOT like needless time consumption whilst waiting on that luck I'll never have to kick in. I feel NO sense of accomplishment after leaving something I was doing worthwhile to go do a 2hr+ tiamat fight for a fucking fire crystal.

Agreed, and with the current system of FFXI, it seems to be easier to hold out against retarded strong mobs than to beat retarded strong mobs. I'd still like to see a system where your only goal is to survive. It's really, really hard to cheat in this game when it comes to outright damage mitigation and curing, outside of programs that count shadows and have timers (though in the grand scheme of things, I'd call them more of advancements than outright cheats). The game also has a strange system of damage scaling where a mob will gain far more defense than attack as its levels increase, to the point where fafnir didn't hit very hard, yet the majority of the DD had a big problem actually hitting it for solid double digits awhile back. I'd like to see an arena that pits you against mobs so strong that your only objective is survival, and then you get the goods. If you win the fight, hurray, there's your sense of twisted accomplishment, but the real test is just staying alive long enough to reach the goal.

Either this, or have more fights where you need to systematically disable parts of a fight in order to weaken the boss, then strike the final blows. Pretty much every fight is standard -- beat it up until it falls over or beats you up. For a game that people supposedly call "challenging at endgame", there's not a lot of strategy that goes into most fights unless the mob takes flight eventually or switches between physical and magical immunity, and neither of those really involved a lot of developing thought-power on the hands of SE.

I know asking the Japanese to think outside the box (in any area outside of robotics or borderline pedophilia) is a tall order, but for the sake of some of their on-the-fringe customers (I've all but said goodbye to everyone), a little change of pace would be lovely.

eople like easy, [fact]. If people wanted a challenge, gilbuying would be low, because they want that "sense of accomplishment" from farming beehive chips or tree cuttings for hours, and hours, and leading on to days worth of farming time, to get a mil or so, for that piece of armor which is generally just marginally better than what you have.

I agree. Look at the +1 items in this game compared to most MMOs: They're pathetic. maybe an extra 5 defense, another stat, or a single percentage increase on haste - we're supposed to spend tens of thousands of gil and hunt for lavish materials for that? Paladin AF+1 is the biggest joke to +1 I've ever seen, outside of feet, and that's only because of the shield skill. Slightly increased defense does nothing. Slightly increased hp does nothing. An extra enimity is nice, but c'mon. Seriously. None of it is really worth the effort unless you're trying to just have the "best" of everything, and its a shame that the "best" in this game really isn't all that hot in the majority of areas, unless it drops from salvage or RotZ. Many relics have even denigrated to "eh" status; not that some of them were all that hot to begin with.

Nothing changes until we the players bitch enough for something of change~

Its not like that with every game. We pay money for a service -- its not unreasonable to expect sweeping changes to address issues that arise with the game. RMT is one of the only issues that saw anything "close" to a "sweeping change", and even then, RMT combined with the shoddy CoP release was enough to drive a huge chunk of the player base away from this game. The die-hards are here to stay, but just like myself, there are a few people that are taking a step back and realizing that they are no longer as die-hard as they used to be. I loved this game, but the lack of willingness to both change and update content has disillusioned me to no end. I'm sticking around long enough for the next update; if theres a good northlands plot with the hydra corps involved; otherwise theres really nothing tangible enough to keep my interest held, and no, "friendship" isn't enough to keep me here, as friendship isn't restricted within the confines of a game. I don't need FFXI to be a glorified chatroom -- I shouldn't have to pay for one of those.

[Paegan]

So if you've had to either cheat or join a cheating group of friends just to advance yourself past a certain point, how in the blue hell is the game properly balanced?

I couldn't agree with you more, that one sentence alone sums up exactly what I think is wrong with this game.

Probably the most intelligent and well-constructed post that I've seen on this forum for a long while.