BRD in Nyzul

[Aymee]

Rai, what did I ever do to you to earn your scorn?

Depending on your setup, don't ever bring a BRD into Nyzul. Especially on higher floors where more dmg is needed.
After a preposterous 200 or so tags in Nyzul now and a lot of job testing, my group hates it.

My group has been doing a 3 melee (yes, with lolthf) and 3 support setup since we started. There's never been a damage issue, even on higher floors and even when the THF wasn't me (i.e. not doing awesome damage). Unless you have a COR you will regret not bringing a BRD the moment you get to fight Soulflayers.

Apparently you didn't bother reading my post, because there's been a THF in my group most all the time. I never once said THF was lousy there... just that my member gets bored of being a glorified TH slave and add management (bolts/solo) and looks helpless, and thus enjoys playing DRG.

The original statement is probably something I should have clarified--it's my saying that in nyzul, dmg output of 4 melee > 3 melee + a brd. This is my opinion. If you could keep buffs on the melee absolutely 100% of the time and my group consisted of ridaberk people (you're in EDI yes?), it's totally comparable and is fine. What I'm trying to get across is that since people are basically BRD addicts for all activities, you shouldn't need to think of them as 'required' in Nyzul. The OP was posting as though since the topic of songs is this important, it implies a sense of need for the BRD. By comparison, you don't see posts asking what gearsets work best on a melee or what weapon to use. Those things are just as 'necessary' to discuss as songs, so the intent of the OP seems clear to me. Even if it is not what he meant, the discussion is certainly about it.

As for 'regretting' not having a BRD or COR higher up, I really have to disagree with you. It's obvious you're attempting to say we don't know what we're doing and we should have had some revelation by now that we 'need' one of the two, but it just hasn't happened. After 4 disks to 100 and 2/3rds of our drops being junked now, I'd think a need to the point of regret would have appeared by now, as you said in your post. Perhaps you're mistaking me for someone who doesn't know how Nyzul works if you are going to dictate what we should be thinking. It would be similar if, instead of praising how much I liked BLU in nyzul, I told you that you should be regretting it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

no reason to use brd on boss floors, if you have melee buy body boosts, invincible drinks etc.
my static uses somthing like this on boss floors

Dead-on. Body boosts and fanatics' are indispensable. Just having these 2 items for your melee makes losing to a boss next to impossible. In our group, I use at start and wail with TP immediately... by the time it wears, the boss is below 50% and I have such dragged out hate that our THF is giddy she gets to SAWS all the hnms. MNK saves it and uses if there's a death and/or hundred fists is needed (counterstance + fanatics is just free dmg, as well).
Honestly I think fanatics is almost cheating in nyzul, lol... it's kinda unfair to PLDs to have their 2hr made pointless via a 200 token temp item that every PT member can take every run.

[shaddix]

what do you think about brd on lamp floors

[Black]

we use Double march on all

WAR/NIN
WAR/NIN
MNK/NIN
THF/NIN
RDM/WHM
BRD/WHM

sometimes the mnk changes to brd and the brd change to war
that our setup also for lv100 bosses

[shaddix]

very good!

[Alibeemac]

I wouldn't do Nyzul without a BRD. My static recently changed from RDM BRD BLM WAR SAM THF to WHM BRD WAR THF SAM SAM. Not lost a floor since we did this (except yesterday when we accidently hit continue on instead of exit after the Boss but that is our dumbness :D )BRD pulls everything, sleeps the gears so we don't agro and lose time, stays at the portal to go up when it is Leader/Spec Enemy floors and after pulling everything and sleeping it runs back to the portal whilst we kill off the mobs so as to save time. BRD's lullaby and finale I find is also awesome for flayers/undead and Paeon works wonders when you have white magic restricted, like we have had. Our BRD also buys mana boost for the Boss and with their MP setup can hit around 600mp for extra cures. I changed from RDM main heal to WHM and things drastically improved. The bonuses WHM gives with stona etc rock. I personally think RDM is the wasted spot if there is a WHM and not the BRD. Not like RDM can easily enfeeble the bosses anyway on floor 60+ so they are there as a healer/refresh, both of which BRD can do just as well (better even with Storm Fife for Ballad) plus the BRD gives the DDs songs.

I went BRD one week when our BRD was unavailable and I had np really with songs etc. Only problem I had was a gear floor when I got overwhelmed sleeping them all and kept dying lol. Hymnus ftw.

I guess it is totally down to what works for you, but I find a BRD invaluable in Nyzul.

[Aymee]

I wouldn't do Nyzul without a BRD.

Thank you for proving my point that this is an issue of people being entirely addicted to BRDs and demanding to have them present for absolutely anything. That's the core of all the replies here. The OP asked 'what songs?', I'm saying 'none please' and apparently I'm insane for thinking it.

My static recently changed from RDM BRD BLM WAR SAM THF to WHM BRD WAR THF SAM SAM. Not lost a floor since we did this

Did you ever consider that dropping the BLM and adding melee dmg is helping you a lot for the majority of floors? Since that change is what's made things so perfect, you can't ignore that adjustment. Nothing personal, but Nyzul was not really designed for BLMs, past custards, flans and a few other things.

BRD's lullaby and finale I find is also awesome for flayers/undead and Paeon works wonders when you have white magic restricted, like we have had.

WHM and RDM can sleep undead just fine in there. Your THF can aura steal spikes from things. If you're even in a situation where you have to lullaby a flayer, you're in trouble regardless. As for using paeon as part of a justification for having a BRD around in the 1/1000 chance that white magic is restricted, that'd be like me saying it'd be good to have our RDM come /drk in the 1/1000 chance that a billion BLU stuns is somehow not enough to stop -gaIIIs off flayers and flans.

I changed from RDM main heal to WHM and things drastically improved.

Did you think that perhaps this is what had the greater impact on curing and not the BRD's backup mp?

I personally think RDM is the wasted spot if there is a WHM and not the BRD.

Ouch! Sorry RDMs, you're not needed in Nyzul! Since this group has not lost a single floor since changing from rdm to whm, CLEARLY that means that RDM is a wasted slot if you want to assure a win. Doesn't matter if they made other PT changes, nonono, that would make too much sense.

I went BRD one week when our BRD was unavailable and I had np really with songs etc. Only problem I had was a gear floor when I got overwhelmed sleeping them all and kept dying lol. Hymnus ftw.

Since if you die and lose all hate they would depop, I have no idea how you died repeatedly. You did pull/sleep them, after all (as you said in your post that a good BRD should be doing). Don't mistake the sloppy work of the rest of your PT as being a reason your brd is apparently so awesome and holds things together. Everyone should be carrying RR anyway, so technically I could say that Hymnus is a wasted song for you and everyone else if you tag them with it.

I guess it is totally down to what works for you, but I find a BRD invaluable in Nyzul.

Apparently so. Just don't forget that you're committing a logical fallacy by crediting the BRDness of your group for all this amazing 100% win performance when you made 2 other PT changes and won't consider their impact.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Do you really need to be so rude about it? She made it clear that she wouldn't do Nyzul without Bard based on the experience of having a Bard present, not because of some deep-seeded addition to the job.

MP is absolutely never a problem for my static, so a RDM would be completely useless to us. Like its been said, there's no time when enfeebles outside of Elegy are required or easy to stick, so I choose WHM for Shellra V, better barspells, Stona, and a third light-based sleep. If we had a RDM instead of a BRD, then what? Said RDM wouldn't be healing any better than I would as BRD. What, they have enfeebles? Great, I have Elegy.

So basically, you're against BRD(And being extremely rude about it, I might add) over Gravity, and a Dispel that doesn't work on the only mob that its ever absolutely imperative on.

[Lordwafik]

WHM and RDM can sleep undead just fine in there. Your THF can aura steal spikes from things. If you're even in a situation where you have to lullaby a flayer, you're in trouble regardless.

Wow this person is dumber than I thought.

First off, Aura steal is 5 mins, and is only a chance at dispelling, and fails quite frequently, so if you're not taking a bard and waiting for a thief to dispel it, good freaking luck. Especially if you get the floor "Destroy <mob type>" and you have 5 flayers. Good luck waiting for aura steal timer to come back for each one.

Lullabying a flayer doesn't mean you're in trouble, it means your bard knows what sleep stun means, obviously you're not that smart.

So basically, you're against BRD(And being extremely rude about it, I might add) over Gravity, and a Dispel that doesn't work on the only mob that its ever absolutely imperative on.

Not to mention the melee songs that make monsters melt

[Aymee]

So basically, you're against BRD(And being extremely rude about it, I might add) over Gravity, and a Dispel that doesn't work on the only mob that its ever absolutely imperative on.

Not to mention the melee songs that make monsters melt

I said it several times... I never said BRDs are bad and shouldn't be used, just that people are addicted to them and seem to think they're required for grand success. Yes, you are correct--BRD songs make things die faster. I also said that the only things that take long enough to die for it to really matter are the bosses, and temp items cover what songs would do there. Furthermore, people are attributing BRDs to their good fortunes instead of looking at other things in their PT or other adjustments they've made. BRDs are not the end-all-be-all of support that magically solve everything ((BLUs are)).

Also, anyone who thinks all a RDM can add is Gravity to make themselves distinguishable is being as ignorant as I am.


I apologize for annoyance and general bitchiness. Yes, I went a bit far... but some people seem completely unaware of the whole general 'cause and effect' theory when it comes to the rest of their PT--the example of switching from RDM > WHM and BLM > SAM yet still attributing that PT's 100% wins on the BRD is a good example. If you'd care to debate that logical fallacy, I'm all ears. You want to use a BRD though? That's cool. Whatever works. For me, RDM with a BLU is more than covering the slack. That's all.

Actually, I think every nyzul group should switch to 5x BLUs and 1 BRD or RDM. ...Ok, 4 BLUs, a THF and a refresher. That would make even the worst of floors stupidly easy and there would be absolutely no discussion over how you could possibly make things any simpler :D




...And just to clarify

First off, Aura steal is 5 mins, and is only a chance at dispelling, and fails quite frequently, so if you're not taking a bard and waiting for a thief to dispel it, good freaking luck. Especially if you get the floor "Destroy <mob type>" and you have 5 flayers. Good luck waiting for aura steal timer to come back for each one.

Really an issue most on flayer NM leaders, and I'd hope to god you don't see more than one of those every 5 minutes. Or, BLUs can dispel things just fine.

Lullabying a flayer doesn't mean you're in trouble, it means your bard knows what sleep stun means, obviously you're not that smart.

I've got 1 or 2 BLUs in my group, depending on player mood... why am I worried about stuns? If you're going to mock me for ignorance, at least try to catch me on the 'lawlBLU' thing that most people believe yet.

[Lordwafik]

Not everyone takes blus, blus aren't as valuable in nyzul as a BRD (but blu is strong there). I would take a brd over a blu any day for nyzul.


*Cue the brd vs blu part of this discussion*

[Eldelphia]

I’m surprised at how many people go in without WHMs. Not that WHM is needed for everything but we seem to get inundated with flayers.

The point is though, you work to your individual group strengths. If one of our guys can come, we have him bring RDM/BLM, because a) he’s a taru and b) we often take a BRD and c) he’s competant we don’t then take a BLM. He has good gear and can destroy puddings etc as well as enfeeble, fresh, crowd control.

We have avoided taking a NIN or a PLD so far because our WARs can tank just fine. Later on, one of them may switch if we need it. So we take 3 DD, WHM, RDM + BRD by preference. In this setup tho, melee songs and pulling are a priority til the bosses. Our BRD can come BLM if we want to switch it around. He happens to be an incredibly savvy player who always seems to know where he and we are.

We don’t bring a BRD because a BRD is uber (I have BRD levelled too) we bring this BRD because this BRD is a good player and we do better with him on BRD than anything else.

Because we have access to BLU, BRD, RDM, WHM & BLM we reshuffle as needed. Pretty much can cover most aspects with those jobs. A WHM can (and I do) enfeeble and sleep, a BLU can debuff/enfeeble/sleep etc etc

On the whole though, light based sleep goes further than dark based, but grav means you can kite forever.

/shrug, I have no preference other than good players = win, poor players or really bad floors/restriction = fail.

[Alibeemac]

I went BRD one week when our BRD was unavailable and I had np really with songs etc. Only problem I had was a gear floor when I got overwhelmed sleeping them all and kept dying lol. Hymnus ftw.

Since if you die and lose all hate they would depop, I have no idea how you died repeatedly. You did pull/sleep them, after all (as you said in your post that a good BRD should be doing). Don't mistake the sloppy work of the rest of your PT as being a reason your brd is apparently so awesome and holds things together. Everyone should be carrying RR anyway, so technically I could say that Hymnus is a wasted song for you and everyone else if you tag them with it.

Wow nice to see people are so fucking rude when they have someone disagree with their opinion. My post was MY PERSONAL opinion on why I like BRD in Nyzul. Did you even read my last line in my post where I said in the end it is down to what works for YOU but I PERSONALLY would not go without a BRD. This is supposed to be a discussion on why BRD is good or bad in Nyzul and I was only pointing out the reasons why it works for us. As for the post above, if you even read it properly you will see it was my first and only time as BRD in Nyzul and I admitted it was me who kept dying and did I say I used Hymnus on every person on the pt? NO I DID NOT. Of course we all carry RR, don't be a moron to assume we don't because you don't like what I am saying. The situation where I kept dying was where there were 3 TRIPLE gears in a room with agro mobs around the mobs which my group had to kill which I was trying to keep them slept and because my Lullaby was down (even with capped recast merits) and had multiple mobs on me I died. I used my RERAISE the first death but because I was still sleeping other mobs I used Hymnus on myself for SPEED to keep the other mobs off the Party. Oh and BTW I was the ONLY person who died, not a single other member of our group did. I also have said on other posts to do with Nyzul that the change from BLM to SAM and RDM to WHM was an awesome help to the group. I am not in any way saying BRD is the sole reason we win. I am saying it is awesome to have for MY SETUP because of the people we static with and the jobs available and that the things that BRD brings to Nyzul only benefits us.

[sekaran]

Not to downplay your BRD, but cause you said RDM was useless in Nyzul.. I can sleep/kite a group of triple gears as well as other mobs no problem on RDM, and not die. ;x

[Alibeemac]

Not to downplay your BRD, but cause you said RDM was useless in Nyzul.. I can sleep/kite a group of triple gears as well as other mobs no problem on RDM, and not die. ;x

Never said was useless. Said it was a wasted spot if there was a WHM and BRD in the pt ie replace the RDM with a DD instead. WHM RDM (If no BRD option) or WHM BRD or RDM BRD works fine, I just don't think all 3 should be used and out of the 3, RDM would be the one I would remove for extra DMG. Again this is just my personal opinion based on my personal experience. I went as RDM in my group for the first few months and since changing to WHM, I would never switch back.

[Priphea]

Since if you die and lose all hate they would depop, I have no idea how you died repeatedly. You did pull/sleep them, after all (as you said in your post that a good BRD should be doing). Don't mistake the sloppy work of the rest of your PT as being a reason your brd is apparently so awesome and holds things together.

This isn't really true. If you die (or better, hit a lamp to make you lose all hate kiting). They depop and RESPAWN WHERE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY. So sometimes you have to hold them as BRD or RDM, when there's a room of them.

Anyway, it's tough to plan your party around or for Pathos. We brought BLU BLU THF DRG RDM WHM a few times hoping that would be a solution to Hydra, and guess what we got on a Floor 100 Hydra? No Blue Magic. We had to warp out one of our BLUs, as it was their disc and well, we lost. Sometimes Nyzul just fucks you over. If that Pathos had been no Job Abilities or Weaponskills, maybe we'd even still win. Can't plan for every contingency.

As for the OP, I was the original arguer for 2 Minuets and now I sing a Minuet and a March, but mostly it is best for the Ballad. We find that BRD RDM WHM backlines are insanely efficient --- when you have BLUs with 11 MP a tick, there is little they cannot destroy in a very very short period of time. RDM + WHM (and BLU, if Heat Breath is necessary) does enough magical damage to take Sewer Syrup and Jellies out quickly enough also -- especially with 9 or 10 MP/tick refresh.

[Aymee]

*Cue the brd vs blu part of this discussion*

Nah... I'm just going to be as stubborn about keeping my BLUs around as most people seem to be about their BRDs. This is... not a thread about blu vs brd, it's about brds.

Not to downplay your BRD, but cause you said RDM was useless in Nyzul.. I can sleep/kite a group of triple gears as well as other mobs no problem on RDM, and not die. ;x

If one of our guys can come, we have him bring RDM/BLM, because a) he’s a taru

This = win, because there's nothing more awesome than watching a puny taru get chased by a train of things, and seeing them get thwacked while recasting sleeps.

I am not in any way saying BRD is the sole reason we win.

Thank you for the clarification. Honestly you had me wondering. I'm content now since before turning into a bitch this is what I was trying to get across, and we're in agreement (god forbid).



Let's all slash our wrists over droprates and go out for a drink, hm? Anyone that's ever actually farmed the place knows the pain. For the record, GMs will not grant requests to get your particular weapon to drop or just give it to you. ...I only know this because my MNK actually asked once

[Obev]

Let's all slash our wrists over droprates and go out for a drink, hm?

Yes. QQ F40.

[Kukuk]

Yes, you are correct--BRD songs make things die faster. I also said that the only things that take long enough to die for it to really matter are the bosses, and temp items cover what songs would do there.

b/c when you have a brd you dont have access to those temp items and they don't stack anyways right?


As Thf, on a boss like khim, by the time i Feint SAWS and use flies he is usually at 25%. Often i make the melee turn until i can get out. On a floor 100 Cerb, SV songs turn him into a cute little puppy, and he falls in 3-5mins depending on Ululation/Gates spam, which the brd is always outa range of to paralyna the rdm/melees. There is no better crowd controller/thwarter of o-shit situations in nyzul than brd.

But different setups work better for different groups and different floors, i actually liked haveing blm from 1-40 but i think its quite useless 41+ when just having melees make SCs(lolscs) will destroy any Custard or slime floors. Course relic GA and double light doesn't hurt there. Just my pennies.

Edit: setup is RDM,BRD,THF(me),DRG/WHM(relic),WAR(Great axe),WAR(great axe) usually, March/Min full time

[Eldelphia]

This = win, because there's nothing more awesome than watching a puny taru get chased by a train of things, and seeing them get thwacked while recasting sleeps.

While indeed it is amusing, alas he fails often to provide us with the entertainment of losing all his HP. Damnable taru is efficient at his job and somehow remembers to cast buffs on himself. He also has the audacity to work with the BRD and WHM to sleep things!!

Damn him and his commonsense!