Possible stun-lock on HNMs, TP burn possibilities, etc

[Tricen]

The resist rates on HNM would make head butt iffy :< You also need to keep it stun locked.. Which requires you to hit... For more than 0 >_>;

Head butt stuns even if it hits for zero.

I think he means the DNC hitting for more than 0 to get TP to use Steps.

How reliable is headbutt for stunning on hnm?

[Spekkio]

The resist rates on HNM would make head butt iffy :< You also need to keep it stun locked.. Which requires you to hit... For more than 0 >_>;

Head butt stuns even if it hits for zero.

I think he means the DNC hitting for more than 0 to get TP to use Steps.

How reliable is headbutt for stunning on hnm?

from what i understand, it CAN stun them, (i've heard of it stunning meteor on KB i think) but i wouldn't rely on it to save my balls. remember, you must connect with the spell to even try to stun it. feint should solve the acc issues though, and the cool thing about headbutt is that the stuns from it can overlap w/o fizzling allowing for a theoretical 100% stunlock w/ a few hasted blus spamming the hell out of it. can a real blu and not my lol61blu back up or refute what i said though?

[Not Kuno]

can a real blu and not my lol61blu back up or refute what i said though?

Headbutt will not overlap another stun the mob has.

[ronin sparthos]

from what i understand, it CAN stun them, (i've heard of it stunning meteor on KB i think)

Pretty sure Behemoths are all damn well near immune to all stuns, based on throwing stuns on blu @ normal Behemoth, King Behemoth, Kronzprinz and Kaiser.

You can stun Khimaira though.

[Seditedi]

The resist rates on HNM would make head butt iffy :< You also need to keep it stun locked.. Which requires you to hit... For more than 0 >_>;

Head butt stuns even if it hits for zero.

I think he means the DNC hitting for more than 0 to get TP to use Steps.

How reliable is headbutt for stunning on hnm?

from what i understand, it CAN stun them, (i've heard of it stunning meteor on KB i think) but i wouldn't rely on it to save my balls. remember, you must connect with the spell to even try to stun it. feint should solve the acc issues though, and the cool thing about headbutt is that the stuns from it can overlap w/o fizzling allowing for a theoretical 100% stunlock w/ a few hasted blus spamming the hell out of it. can a real blu and not my lol61blu back up or refute what i said though?

No, it doesn't stun KB or another HNM immune to stun.
Headbutt has a knockback effect though, which WILL stop spells from going off.
Jailer of Faith isn't really classified as HNM, but when I fought it awhile ago, we had a BLU running around spamming Headbutt on it, it stopped nearly every cast from going off due to the knockback effect.
I'd assume that is probably what happened to KB when you saw it "stun" meteor.

[Not Kuno]

Headbutt has a knockback effect though, which WILL stop spells from going off.

I don't think it works like that. >_>

[Tythera]

When a mob gets headbutted it's distance via the plugin does not change at all, wouldn't a knockback make that change? I always thought it was a stun :bagel:

[Suiram]

It's not a knockback.

Edit: To qualify, it's not a knockback when it's the BLU spell vs. a mob. I'm guessing there was something else interrupting the cast, like damage done either by the BLU's other spells or by melee. Try Headbutt during Manafont, it should never interrupt (since JoF is unstunnable so the only thing that could interrupt is spell interruption from physical damage or the purported knockback effect, and damage doesn't interrupt spells during Manafont). Can mobs even be knockbacked at all like players? I can't think of anything that does (if you agree that Head Butt doesn't do it).

[Rocl]

Head Butt's "knockback" is purely an animation, if you use distance- the mob doesn't move at all. Head Butt could stun shit like Kirin and Behemoth way back when BLU was first introduced iirc, but was nerfed fairly quickly.

And no, I can't think of any knockback effects players do.

[miokomioko]

Mobs don't need to stand still to cast successfully... You can only interrupt a mob's spellcasting with Silence, Stun, Sleep, or melee strikes.

[liefe]

Mobs don't need to stand still to cast successfully... You can only interrupt a mob's spellcasting with Silence, Stun, Sleep, or melee strikes.

QFT. Hence why you can deploy an automaton to cast Blizzard 4 and run it around and as long as the target is in casting range, the spell will go off.

Head Butt doesn't stun anything "unstunnable" as is, but it has a small chance to stun boss-type monsters that aren't immune to it normally. If it was possible to to make the added stun nearly 100% accurate though in terms of landing at least it could really be effective..

I'm also kind of curious how Stutter Step would work for elegy vs harder monsters if you were low manning.

[Amok]

Now this question:
HNM's that build resistance to magic (Fafnir sleep and Khimaira stun) is that resistence for the status effect itself or only from magical sources. I remember back when they added the general NM resistance buildup it was meant to make multiple BLM's less attractive or something. I'm wondering if Head Butt or other physical sources of stun (weapon skills) attribute to the same resistance buildup.

[ronin sparthos]

Im pretty sure its a built up resistance to being afflicted with the status (stun) a certain amount of times. Head Butt or any other stun (Temporal Shift, Tail Slap) counts towards certain mobs stun resistance just as much as a BLM/DRK Stun spell.

There was a post about some SAM building up Khims resistance to Stun via the Platinum Grip iirc a while ago.

[Alistaire]

can a real blu and not my lol61blu back up or refute what i said though?

Headbutt will not overlap another stun the mob has.

That is incorrect. Head Butt, Frypan, Tail Slap will all overwrite another stun. Blitztrahl and Temporal Shift won't.

As for the knockback effect, it still does a knockback same as it always has but it's...basically a spring effect. It will bounce the mob from its original spot and only interrupt the casting if it's mid-bounce when the spell should go off. This bounce is pretty quick so it's very hard to time, but the bounce on Ram Charge is a bit bigger/longer than Head Butt or Uppercut.

[Spekkio]

Im pretty sure its a built up resistance to being afflicted with the status (stun) a certain amount of times. Head Butt or any other stun (Temporal Shift, Tail Slap) counts towards certain mobs stun resistance just as much as a BLM/DRK Stun spell.

There was a post about some SAM building up Khims resistance to Stun via the Platinum Grip iirc a while ago.

i thought nobody came to any solid conclusions from that thread, but we conjectured that it was the plat grip and the fact that the grip sucked anyway lead us to just leave it at that. my memory sucks though, so i'll try to dig up the thread later.

thanks for confirming that it did work at some point even if no longer. proves i'm not crazy. stupid, perhaps, as i feel like i'm saying "HAY GUYZ U KAN LOX AV!" and i'm not sure if that's any better, but i'll count it as a win and go on with my life.

i could have sworn i've seen head butt's stun overlap itself before on EP and sub EP mobs resulting in a stunlock. regardless, i don't think there's any debate that an EP mob will stun for a MUCH longer time than a VT or IT mob, both from the stun spell and from head butt. is there a specific stat associated with the increase in duration? magic skill? macc? could stun just have a very high chance of partial resist and on weaker mobs be more capable of rolling an unresisted or near unresisted hit? i suppose we could rule in or out the macc question fast by ESing (Dark Seal could work too?) stun on an IT mob and seeing how long it lasts. if the duration is significantly longer, then some kind of accuracy must play a role in it as that's what ES fundamentally enhances. the alternative is that it does not have an effect on stun duration, indicating it's a pure level difference and nothing more.

[fndragon]

As far as HNMs and Stun goes, the resistance rate is about the same as the Black Mage Stun spell.

I've tried Head-Butting my way through a Proto-Ultima, and while the stun effect does land nearly 90% of the time (I see a message "The Proto-Ultima is no longer stunned" on a successful landing), the duration is much less than the normal 2-3 seconds. Like half of a second on that NM.

Certain HNM's such as Kirin have the same resistance rate to the additional effect as the BLM stun spell, due to their elemental alignment. So you can hit Kirin with Head Butt (and copious amounts of sushi), but rarely if ever will the additional effect land. I've heard that you can SA+Head Butt to make it land in case of an emergency, especially on mobs like the KS99 Behemoth, but that's still not "Stun Locking" a mob.

(However, it can randomly land; I've head-butted a Nyzul Isle Behemoth and had the stun effect land there once in a while).

As for the OP, the DNC stun isn't a 100% stun, I've seen it be ignored by the mob on occasion. (the XP mob, that is). So unless my memory is faulty, it probably won't be a useful tool on HNM's due to the resistance boost those have.

[Charismatic]

As for the OP, the DNC stun isn't a 100% stun, I've seen it be ignored by the mob on occasion. (the XP mob, that is). So unless my memory is faulty, it probably won't be a useful tool on HNM's due to the resistance boost those have.

It's not the DNC stun that he's really concerned about, it's the step(flourish, fuck, I dunno... I don't play DNC) that lowers the mobs elemental resistance... you know, to counter the resistance boost you just talked about.

[Spekkio]

As far as HNMs and Stun goes, the resistance rate is about the same as the Black Mage Stun spell.

I've tried Head-Butting my way through a Proto-Ultima, and while the stun effect does land nearly 90% of the time (I see a message "The Proto-Ultima is no longer stunned" on a successful landing), the duration is much less than the normal 2-3 seconds. Like half of a second on that NM.

Certain HNM's such as Kirin have the same resistance rate to the additional effect as the BLM stun spell, due to their elemental alignment. So you can hit Kirin with Head Butt (and copious amounts of sushi), but rarely if ever will the additional effect land. I've heard that you can SA+Head Butt to make it land in case of an emergency, especially on mobs like the KS99 Behemoth, but that's still not "Stun Locking" a mob.

(However, it can randomly land; I've head-butted a Nyzul Isle Behemoth and had the stun effect land there once in a while).

As for the OP, the DNC stun isn't a 100% stun, I've seen it be ignored by the mob on occasion. (the XP mob, that is). So unless my memory is faulty, it probably won't be a useful tool on HNM's due to the resistance boost those have.

the OP's observation was that the step increased the duration (and frequency i think) of his stun flourish proc and contemplated if it could be used with stun effects like head butt which were on a much shorter recast with a higher accuracy in order to come far closer to a stunlock than a blu or even a cs rdm can do.

[eva00r]

Head Butt's "knockback" is purely an animation, if you use distance- the mob doesn't move at all. Head Butt could stun shit like Kirin and Behemoth way back when BLU was first introduced iirc, but was nerfed fairly quickly.

And no, I can't think of any knockback effects players do.

Uppercut?

[Charismatic]

Nah, that's just a graphical thing... the mob doesn't "actually" move.
Not sure how to explain it properly, but it's not knockback in the true sense.