Possible stun-lock on HNMs, TP burn possibilities, etc

[fndragon]

the OP's observation was that the step increased the duration (and frequency i think) of his stun flourish proc and contemplated if it could be used with stun effects like head butt which were on a much shorter recast with a higher accuracy in order to come far closer to a stunlock than a blu or even a cs rdm can do.

Ah. My bad, then. Lern 2 read @ me, I guess.

I suspect, then, that the flourish just decreases the elemental resist rates. Something akin to threnody/elemental ninjutsu/ancient magic's effect? Needs testing, but could be useful under the right circumstances.

[fantasticdan]

That is incorrect. Head Butt, Frypan, Tail Slap will all overwrite another stun. Blitztrahl and Temporal Shift won't.

I've been playing blu since toau release, and I've never seen head butt overlap another stun, as in gotten the stun animation if the mob is currently stunned, will always just get the 'knockback' animation, aka no stun proc.

[Alistaire]

That is incorrect. Head Butt, Frypan, Tail Slap will all overwrite another stun. Blitztrahl and Temporal Shift won't.

I've been playing blu since toau release, and I've never seen head butt overlap another stun, as in gotten the stun animation if the mob is currently stunned, will always just get the 'knockback' animation, aka no stun proc.

You can do this yourself by equipping Head Butt + Frypan + Tail Slap and casting them on a mob in a row. You won't see the "...is no longer stunned" till after the last physical stun. Or get another blu or 2 and alternate Head Butts.

[Alistaire]

Nah, that's just a graphical thing... the mob doesn't "actually" move.
Not sure how to explain it properly, but it's not knockback in the true sense.

It's as I explained. It's a bouncing effect. They get knocked back but then pulled back to their original position pretty quickly. I have interrupted spells when I've timed it right that the mob hasn't bounced back at the time its spell is supposed to go off.

[miokomioko]

Again, mobs can move during spellcasting and still successfully cast. The "knockback" being purely animation or not, will not interrupt a mob's spellcasting. Have you not seen a pulled goblin run to your party while casting the entire time and then still get their spell off?

The only ways mobs can be interrupted are:

Stun: The status effect Stun being applied to a casting mob at any time will interrupt whatever spell they were casting, regardless of it wearing before the spell is completed.

Sleep: Sleep status effect has to be on the mob the instant that the spell is complete. A casting mob can be slept in the middle of a spell and if it is awoken before it is completed, the spell will still go off.

Silence: I'm less certain about this one, but I believe it works the same way as Sleep where a Silenced mob that was casting can get the spell off if they are no longer silenced by the time the spell is completed.

Physical melee hits: Blah blah blah physical hits (and probably physical blu spells) can interrupt a mob's spellcasting. It seems as though the more hits and the more damage increases the chance of interruption as well as critical hits having an even higher chance.

Personally, I don't believe BLU spell knockback is more than a graphic thing whatsoever. The mob does not actually move. Your screen being locked on to a mob that's knocked back will not move whatsoever. Your target will not budge in the same way you can still just stand still and melee where a Ghost mob was when it warps around to use that Ecto Smash move or whatever it's called. Not to mention that the distance plugin records no change between player and mob when it's "knocked back"

Above all, mobs and pets do not need to stand still in order to successfully cast. I'm not sure why, but that's how it is. Interrupting a spell with Head Butt when Stun does not proc, I am willing to bet, is just a lucky physical blue magic spell hit interrupting a mob's spell casting, just like any standard melee punch.

[Seditedi]

Headbutt has a knockback effect though, which WILL stop spells from going off.

I don't think it works like that. >_>

I remember very clearly, a BLU using Headbutt stopped nearly all of Jailer of Faith's casting except when it had Manafont up, it definitely wasn't stunned, but the casts were definitely stopped, I'm sure of it.

[Howard Roark]

from what i understand, it CAN stun them, (i've heard of it stunning meteor on KB i think)

Pretty sure Behemoths are all damn well near immune to all stuns, based on throwing stuns on blu @ normal Behemoth, King Behemoth, Kronzprinz and Kaiser.

You can stun Khimaira though.

i seem to remember sneak attack head butt working/being attempted in ks99 behe pretty sure it worked but 1min timer is meh

also, for stun locking are we talking the dnc being th eonly one to stun it or dnc and heabutt blu alternating stuns

wouldnt you run the risk of Soandso's stun has no effect on the Blahblah? If something is already stunned I thought that's the message it shows if stuns overlap. Just curious if it would work even if headbutt could stick

[Spekkio]

[quote=Howard Roark]

from what i understand, it CAN stun them, (i've heard of it stunning meteor on KB i think)

Pretty sure Behemoths are all damn well near immune to all stuns, based on throwing stuns on blu @ normal Behemoth, King Behemoth, Kronzprinz and Kaiser.

You can stun Khimaira though.

i seem to remember sneak attack head butt working/being attempted in ks99 behe pretty sure it worked but 1min timer is meh

also, for stun locking are we talking the dnc being th eonly one to stun it or dnc and heabutt blu alternating stuns

wouldnt you run the risk of Soandso's stun has no effect on the Blahblah? If something is already stunned I thought that's the message it shows if stuns overlap. Just curious if it would work even if headbutt could stick[/quote:2ky4wxmd]
dnc debuffs, blus do the stunning. the dnc stun was merely used to demonstrate the possible correlation between the stutter step effect and stun accuracy/duration. i've mentioned this before in this thread. as for the knockback effect, it's easy to test. ram charge and uppercut cause the knockback animation too. hit a mob with that while it's casting something long and see if it stops casting. if it does (and reliably enough to rule out it being a simple interruption from hits), knockback works. if it doesn't, knockback has no effect on casting. easy test, settles this in a matter of seconds.

[ronin sparthos]

i seem to remember sneak attack head butt working/being attempted in ks99 behe pretty sure it worked but 1min timer is meh

also, for stun locking are we talking the dnc being th eonly one to stun it or dnc and heabutt blu alternating stuns

wouldnt you run the risk of Soandso's stun has no effect on the Blahblah? If something is already stunned I thought that's the message it shows if stuns overlap. Just curious if it would work even if headbutt could stick

Hmm... i never could land a Head Butt (Stun Proc) on Chevnik when i tried BLU @ that arena... maybe it got ninja fixed or i was dillusional but i know that it doesnt proc on Kaiser and King/NQ for sure. Not enough to matter even if it *could* in theory land.