oh State of the Union

[Galaika]

If you justify an attack on Iran based on them supplying weapons to a pre-existing enemy of ours (in this case, people we attacked), then you just also kinda justified... yeah.

We can also justify an attack based on them achieving Nuclear capabilities since they refuse to stop. If they do end up completing a nuclear warhead, it's possible that they could pass it to terrorist groups (that make it clear that they are enemies of the US) that would attack us with that power had they been given the chance.

We are kinda 0-for the century at judging countries WMD capabilities. plus I think you're whooshing Beckwin's point

I know that the Iraq-case has lost US Intelligence credibility on the matters of WMD. But Iran is a different situation entirely, they openly state that they are producing Nuclear Fuel and they have operational reactors. With nuclear-armed countries around Iran (Pakistan, India, Israel). What's stopping them from arming themselves if they have working reactors?

Edit: Also. Whooshing...? Sorry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world ... ref=slogin

According to your intelligence agencies, about 8 years if they started enriching uranium for them now.

[Avinor]

We can also justify an attack based on them achieving Nuclear capabilities since they refuse to stop. If they do end up completing a nuclear warhead, it's possible that they could pass it to terrorist groups (that make it clear that they are enemies of the US) that would attack us with that power had they been given the chance.

Worry more about Pakistan, who already has nukes and is less stable. I don't want Iran to have a bomb either but its not fear of terrorists thats my primary concern. The latest intelligence seems hopefull anyway, and odds are their enrichment amibitions can be squelched if the Russians are monitoring and providing the reactor fuel.

[Faris]

I wish the middle east would just unite and get this over with....this is getting REALLY annoying now.

[Egon]

You guys are missing my point completely. Fact is, we are in Iraq right now, and we're going to be there for a while longer no matter who is elected into office. I simply asked for solutions, but instead i get smart ass come backs. This is why I'm a conservative, we strive on ideas, where as the other side of the fence has no ideas, only complaints.

So, prove me wrong and post some fucking ideas already! Solutions to our terror problems!

[Day]

It's not our job to come up with ideas. We shouldn't even be over there in the first place. How about you justify to me why we should sacrifice more lives in Iran, (Not just American lives), instead of fixing our own fucking problems at home.

Edit: (Taking out link, it was pretty old)

[Plow]

So, you guys don't like the idea of any kind of aggression towards Iran. If I'm wrong, please clarify. Tell me what you think we should do instead of what we shouldn't do.

NOTHING

We are not the fucking world police.

There are weapons from Iran that are killing Americans in Iraq, so we should leave them alone for this?

{Hmm.}

Here's a solution to Americans getting killed in Iraq.





Stay the fuck out of Iraq.

I'll get right on that.

[Boyiee]

Not as much as invading another country is going to hurt your pockets.

I actually make alot more money when we go to war and invade countries.

[Day]

Must be nice.

[riddaraan]

What about the American weapons in our schools that are killing Americans?

I wish the middle east would just unite and get this over with....this is getting REALLY annoying now.

Don't woosh me, but are you saying you want the end of the world? (Revelationists say that peace in the Middle East marks the beginning of the End.)

I don't believe in this, of course, but I just thought your statement was really humorous in a very dark way.

[Conrad]

Tax cut would be a start, next would be reduce spending on the war(s), but neither will happen

Bush did this, and in fact it's a major tenet of the Republican Party. Cut taxes, people get more money and will use it to spend money. This generates revenue, blah blah blah.

Two problems:

A) The money that Americans received from the Bush tax cuts was either used to pay off debt, or just thrown in the bank and saved (at least, this is what many Americans did).

B) What's the last thing that you bought that was made in America? Everything you buy nowadays is from China, India, Indonesia, i.e. not American-made. Revenue doesn't increase in the United States if we're literally hemorrhaging money.

The most direct way that the United States can get money back is to tax the people. It's an unpopular solution, but I don't see a decrease in military spending happening anytime soon either.

p.s. Are there any transcripts of the SotU floating around? I wasn't able to catch it last night, though I wouldn't have wanted to sit through 3 hours of applause either.

[Day]

I'm bored as hell at work, lemme see if I can find a transcript, I'd like to reread it without the obligatory applause as well.

Edit: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcript/

lol at all the applause stops.

[riddaraan]

I saw a link on Wikipedia.

[Conrad]

Posting and editing as I read it:

So, last week, my administration reached agreement with Speaker Pelosi and Republican Leader Boehner on a robust growth package that includes tax relief for individuals and families and incentives for business investment.

Exactly what I said before, I believe this does more harm than good.

Others have said they would personally be happy to pay higher taxes. I welcome their enthusiasm. I am pleased to report that the IRS accepts both checks and money orders.

Bush made a funny!

Members of the Congress should know, if any bill -- raises taxes reach -- reaches my desk, I will veto it.

So, this time, if you send me an appropriations bill that does not cut the number and cost of earmarks in half, I'll send it back to you with my veto.

Good to see that the President isn't trying to abuse his power by attempting to create his own laws and increase the authority of the President. >_> Yes I know he's not the first one to do this

(Although saying that Congress should stop adding earmarks and pork and whatnot to major bills, especially one for a budget that America desperately needs, is a wise comment.)

It's been a difficult time for many American families and, by taking these steps, we can help more of them keep their homes.

To build a future of quality health care, we must trust patients and doctors to make medical decisions and empower them with better information and better options.

We share a common goal: making health care more affordable and accessible for all Americans.

The best way to achieve that goal is by expanding consumer choice, not government control.

IF YOU LIKE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE YOU ARE A COMMUNIST

I thank the Congress for approving a good agreement with Peru. And now I ask you to approve agreements with Colombia and Panama and South Korea.

Many products from these nations now enter America duty-free.

Yet many of our products face steep tariffs in their markets. These agreements will level the playing field. They will give us better access to nearly 100 million customers.

They will support good jobs for the finest workers in the world, those whose products say, "Made in the USA."

Nothing made in the USA is really that great anymore, and doesn't it tend to have a higher cost of production than when it's made in other countries?

To build a future of energy security, we must trust in the creative genius of American researchers and entrepreneurs and empower them to pioneer a new generation of clean energy technology.
--Continues with greenness

Nice to see that Bush acknowledges global warming as a problem. America still rejected the Kyoto Protocol, though, and we're not doing much to be a "global leader" towards finding a solution.

Every member in this chamber knows that spending on entitlement programs -- like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- is growing faster than we can afford.

We all know the painful choices ahead if American stays on this path: massive tax increases, sudden and drastic cuts in benefits, and crippling deficits.

I've laid out proposals to reform these programs. Now I ask members of Congress to offer your proposals and come up with a bipartisan solution to save these vital programs for our children and our grandchildren

Everyone my age that I've talked to has accepted as an inevitability that Social Security will no longer exist by the time we're 65. (I'm 20.)

The majority of the rest of it is Iraq stuff, which I won't get into since it's a raw issue for everyone.

[Delta_9]

A) The money that Americans received from the Bush tax cuts was either used to pay off debt, or just thrown in the bank and saved (at least, this is what many Americans did).

Whut? Have you not looked at the tax cut thread on this board? Even though some may have paid down the debt, Americans in general have a horrible reputation for not saving. All we do is spend, which is in part holding up the global economy.

The most direct way that the United States can get money back is to tax the people. It's an unpopular solution, but I don't see a decrease in military spending happening anytime soon either.

Not sure where to even start on this. If anything the tax on small buisness needs to be lowered. Even though I know every hates that giant corporate machine it doesn't account for all of the national GDP. The more you can help those small businesses the better. And on the subject of the National GDP (think that was the other bush thread, not this one but meh), the Fed took into account a tiny amount of inflation for the growth of the last two years. There is no way we are sitting at 3% growth. I'll find the articles and video later.

Not like any of that matters, in 2012 (I think), the tax cuts will be rolled back anyway.

[Olo401]

State of the Union causes mass epidemic of alcohol poisoning (satire)

[Conrad]

A) The money that Americans received from the Bush tax cuts was either used to pay off debt, or just thrown in the bank and saved (at least, this is what many Americans did).

Whut? Have you not looked at the tax cut thread on this board? Even though some may have paid down the debt, Americans in general have a horrible reputation for not saving. All we do is spend, which is in part holding up the global economy.

I'll give you that. Americans spend more than they save, something like -2%. However my figure up there was from one of the 24-hour news channels, though I can't remember which one right now. My point was, the projected revenue that was supposed to be generated from the Bush tax cuts didn't really go .

[Day]

Yeah but do you factor in that we've always had the money to spend? Idk about you guys but I used to just buy, buy, buy, whatever I wanted, but with gas the way it is now, and stupid shit like milk being 5 dollars a gallon, I just can't afford to buy whatever I want anymore. I know that in the last year or so, I've started putting more and more money away instead of wasting it on stupid things.

[Delta_9]

Yeah but do you factor in that we've always had the money to spend? Idk about you guys but I used to just buy, buy, buy, whatever I wanted, but with gas the way it is now, and stupid shit like milk being 5 dollars a gallon, I just can't afford to buy whatever I want anymore. I know that in the last year or so, I've started putting more and more money away instead of wasting it on stupid things.

The average credit card debt of 5-20k begs to differ, doesn't it? Too many people try to live above what they really can afford.

[Silverbane]

So, you guys don't like the idea of any kind of aggression towards Iran. If I'm wrong, please clarify. Tell me what you think we should do instead of what we shouldn't do.

NOTHING

We are not the fucking world police.

There are weapons from Iran that are killing Americans in Iraq, so we should leave them alone for this?

{Hmm.}

There are weapons from America that are killing Americans in Iraq.

What now?

They are weapons made in the U.S that are killing young Americans in the hood, should'nt we invade the hood too?

[Day]

Right but that's an average taken from when? Starting and ending when?

I don't know the numbers which is why I am asking. Is America spending more or less now that gas has skyrocketed and simple things like groceries are costing more and more.

What I mean is that, I think in the past people felt more secure with racking up debts, and now that there seems to be a "sky is falling" mentality in the economy, people are probably less likely to do so.