oh State of the Union

[Demosthenes11]

modern jails are a resort, complete with TV, a gym, basketball, and basically w/e you feel like doing.

That's bullshit

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Its a pointless discussion because the right to bear arms will always be a fact in the US and raising taxes, even if it is to support the people who need help, is a big political no-no.

fixed. Now keep the thread alive until Guartz, Skurlover and Swampdonkey show up!

Which crazy idea would you like me to show up with Charla?!

[riddaraan]

Ok I'll bite. Who is to say that our system of "jails" and "punishment" is the most effective? Who is to say that an alternative system of "punishment" will not work? If we really want to dig to the core of our justice system we need to ask ourselves if the very implied notion of jails = punishment is even right.

Maybe there are alternatives that we have not even considered. Just saying...

That is exactly what I'm getting at. Which brings us back to an earlier thread in which I proposed a return to drawing & quartering.

Of course, I'm not recommending that sort of treatment for smaller offenders, however, I do think that it is time that we find a new way to punish offenders. Perhaps send them to the moon to build colonies. Another problem with jailing is that most of them have nothing to rehabilitate TO. Once they leave jail, they're just returning to their old lives. So perhaps, we can offer a sort of work-for-welfare state of punishment. Perhaps by having them build homes for the homeless, hard labor with supervision, we can offer them the chance to earn one of these homes.

Or pehaps just use time-served as a down payment, based upon a comparisson of the crime (in severity dictated by a jury) versus time worked. I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas to a place where it will serve no purpose.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Just for you Charla!

I remember in High School taking some law class where the teacher read us some article/statistic about how 70% of the people in jail, I could be a bit off by now, were in jail for a drug related offense. Just like prohibition, if someone wants drugs they are going to get them. Instead of treating drugs a criminal problem treat them as medical problem just like we do alcohol. Imagine the money our government would save if we treated drugs as medical problem instead of a criminal problem. I have a cousin in jail for dealing x and his favorite saying is "alcoholics go home and beat their wives, potheads go home and sleep with them." He's obviously in favor legalizing weed.

Also, when the effect of something only affects the user, why does the government care? It's like seat belt laws, if I want to be an idiot and not wear my speed belt I have that right, it doesn't affect anyone else. Nothing made more criminals out of American's than drug laws, and the original reason they were even put into law is completely lost today.

[Day]

I could talk for hours about weed vs alcohol, I wont get into here very much since we are getting extremely off topic, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt which one I'd rather have my loved ones using... and it's not currently legal.

You guys are making a great point here, theres some fundamental flaws with our crime and punishment system, that really need to be addressed. People getting locked up for a damn dime bag, when a bottle of liquor, which you can buy in a store, is so much more dangerous, and in so many ways, then we have to turn around and pay to keep these people locked up that would most likely carry a decent job in the real world.

Also, when the effect of something only affects the user, why does the government care? It's like seat belt laws, if I want to be an idiot and not wear my speed belt I have that right, it doesn't affect anyone else. Nothing made more criminals out of American's than drug laws, and the original reason they were even put into law is completely lost today.

Someone is bound to come in here and follow this up with a statement similar to "Well it doesn't affect just the user when they get behind the wheel, or endanger others" So I'll go ahead and ask, how would it be any different that alcohol?

[Charla]

Just for you Charla!

Aww, I knew you cared.

[Olo401]

This is why I'm a conservative, we strive on ideas, where as the other side of the fence has no ideas, only complaints.

Apparently conservatives like yourself think the insane rantings of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, John Gibson, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Laura Ingraham, Pat Robertson, and Jim Dobson are ideas and not complaints?!

Excuse me waitress, reality check at table 4..

[Olo401]

I wasn't being sarcastic with that question. I know what the statics are. My point is, that you can not prevent violent crime by simply banning the weapon and when you do you just create a underground market for them.

exactly, see: alcohol

The real 'lol' comes from Bush stating No Child Left Behind is a success...riiiight...

I remember when Bush claimed he would be called the "education president." Hilarious. Standardized testing was already thoroughly hated by faculty and students at schools before Bush came along, I can't even imagine how bad it is now.

Teacher's aren't trained and paid to assess if their students are capable of proceeding to the next grade right?

No, teachers are trained and paid to teach, not demonstrate to their students how to fill out a computer-fed bubble form from Kindergarten.

[Ushallbeasgods]

I wasn't being sarcastic with that question. I know what the statics are. My point is, that you can not prevent violent crime by simply banning the weapon and when you do you just create a underground market for them.

exactly, see: alcohol

The real 'lol' comes from Bush stating No Child Left Behind is a success...riiiight...

I remember when Bush claimed he would be called the "education president." Hilarious. Standardized testing was already thoroughly hated by faculty and students at schools before Bush came along, I can't even imagine how bad it is now.

Teacher's aren't trained and paid to assess if their students are capable of proceeding to the next grade right?

No, teachers are trained and paid to teach, not demonstrate to their students how to fill out a computer-fed bubble form from Kindergarten.

Sarcasm my good man. Also to go to the whole crime and justice issue, some of us are so hell bent on an eye for an eye that jail will be seen as the only option.

[archibaldcrane]

modern jails are a resort, complete with TV, a gym, basketball, and rape.
That's bullshit

Fixed.

[Kuya]

modern jails are a resort, complete with TV, a gym, basketball, and rape.
That's bullshit

Fixed.

lol

I actually make alot more money when we go to war and invade countries

.
*Insert liberal douchebag rant here.

Also, how come every thread involving Bush turns into the Olympics of hot button issues? How much longer before we get a religious debate, an abortion debate, and some gays in here?

[Charla]

Well so far we got Swamp here, so... Guartz can bring the religion debate, Skurlover will throw in a few oneliners and keep the momentum going until Devek shows up somehow (too bad he hasn't posted since the shitstorm thread back in August). And you want some gays? Tonko already posted back on page 1!

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Someone is bound to come in here and follow this up with a statement similar to "Well it doesn't affect just the user when they get behind the wheel, or endanger others" So I'll go ahead and ask, how would it be any different that alcohol?

That's why getting behind the wheel drunk is illegal, it affects someone else, thus it would be the same for drugs.

[Day]

Yeah that was the point I was trying to make... sorry if it came out wrong.

[pohibaba]

Sounds like a lot of people in here are Ron Paul fans:

1) He's the only non-interventionist running

2) He's the only candidate running who plans to end the War on Drugs

3) He's the only candidate willing to establish "permanent" tax cuts

4) He's the only candidate running who'll defend the Second Amendment

Glad to see I have you guys on my team.

[Beckwin]

1) I'll take intervention to stop genocide, just don't like intervention to get oil/settle a score.

2) The "War on Drugs" is as much of a farce as the War on Terror. No one running is saying "hey, let's just stop fighting drugs" either.

3) I don't want permanent tax cuts.

4) Fuck the Second Amendment.

Can we talk about candidates who have at least a snowball's chance in hell?

[Conrad]

Paul's done better than Rudy in every Republican primary yet, and Rudy was the initial frontrunner. Though that might be entirely dependent on Rudy's strategy to only campaign in states voting on Super Tuesday. We'll have to wait until next week to see if that paid off, but otherwise he has a little more than a snowball's chance in Hell.

I still wouldn't vote for him, though.

[Kuya]

Fuck Ron Paul, i'm voting for the candidate of 911. Because on that day that 911 was founded, 911 stood tall and declared that no longer will 911 fear the likes of tyrants, for 911 stands for only one thing, 911. And if you believe as proudly as i do, in the Constitution and Government of 911, you'll vote the same as me. For 911.

[Beckwin]

I said this earlier at some point, but possibly the most entertaining part of the primaries is gonna be watching Ron and Rudy duke it out for last.

It's too bad for the Republicans that McCain just doesn't feel relevant anymore after the years of being herded back into the mainstream GOP. I'm kinda sad I don't respect him as much as I used to; in 2000 he was a really strong candidate.

[Day]

The thing I dont understand about Paul, is how come he's getting like no media coverage. I feel like he barely stands a chance b/c you never hear about him really except on the wide wide world of webs. I mean I saw him on Leno or something, but that's about it. All these stations seem to focus on Clinton, Obama, and Romney, at least while I have the news on in the background those are the main candidates I hear about... (keep in mind i live in the fuckin boonies and only get ABC/CBS).