UFC 81 Superbowl Eve

[Fhqwghads]

I love how people keep thinking this is the first time "profesional wrestling" and mma mixed. Remember when Ken Shamrock was in WWE? Dan Svern? Weren't some of the japanese fighters in Pride professional wrestlers?
Stop jumping on that "I hate fake wrestling" bandwagon, Lesner showed that he can do alot better if he trains his sub defense.

Wtf are you talking about. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, I've hated fake wrestling since forever. The fact is Brock thought he could make the transition, and the way WWE's rabid fan-boys mocked up this fight was laughable. I'm merely making some post-fight jabs at them, because I find it incredibly amusing how many of them though Lesnar stood a chance. I will give him some credit though. I thought he'd shoot out with a windmill attack, eyes shut, flailing arms around. He wasn't quite that bad, but he still sucked.

[noblemountain]

a few of the pride guys did some pro-wrestling (barnett, sakuraba, randleman, hell...cro cop even) and yes shamrock and severn did pro-wrestling. thing is...they were MMA fighters before they were pro-wrestlers. they just used pro-wrestling as an extra paycheck.

i'm not saying brock was terrible, but he was outclassed. if he was straight out of college with his background, he'd have trained longer and had much better build up and learning curve fights. he doesn't have that luxury simply because of his name now though. if he truly wants to do this, he's going to fight big name guys because he's making big money. they're not going to pay him 200k to beat up some bum. they're going to get their money's worth every time he steps in that octagon.

[Blarg]

It's pretty stupid to make fun of Brock for losing to a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, that discipline more than any other will punish someone if they only have a little training. And honestly Brock did more to Mir than other fighters have in only a minute. His next fight should be against a striker, unless Brock has a glass chin I think he stands a good chance to take out a pretty decent striker or wrestler.

[Fhqwghads]

It's pretty stupid to make fun of Brock for losing to a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, that discipline more than any other will punish someone if they only have a little training. And honestly Brock did more to Mir than other fighters have in only a minute. His next fight should be against a striker, unless Brock has a glass chin I think he stands a good chance to take out a pretty decent striker or wrestler.

It was pretty stupid of Brock to be fighting a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, so I have no problems laughing at him for his stupidity.

[Chips]

It's pretty stupid to make fun of Brock for losing to a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, that discipline more than any other will punish someone if they only have a little training. And honestly Brock did more to Mir than other fighters have in only a minute. His next fight should be against a striker, unless Brock has a glass chin I think he stands a good chance to take out a pretty decent striker or wrestler.

It was pretty stupid of Brock to be fighting a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, so I have no problems laughing at him for his stupidity.

That was just something I was confused about with Brock. I know he's a wrestler and all, but I don't know why he didn't try to keep it standing instead of sitting in Mir's guard. I suppose he's big enough to ground and pound from that position, but with Mir's BJJ, that would seem to be a pretty dangerous thing to do.

[Remyo]

It's pretty stupid to make fun of Brock for losing to a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, that discipline more than any other will punish someone if they only have a little training. And honestly Brock did more to Mir than other fighters have in only a minute. His next fight should be against a striker, unless Brock has a glass chin I think he stands a good chance to take out a pretty decent striker or wrestler.

It was pretty stupid of Brock to be fighting a fucking highly skilled BJJ fighter, so I have no problems laughing at him for his stupidity.

That was just something I was confused about with Brock. I know he's a wrestler and all, but I don't know why he didn't try to keep it standing instead of sitting in Mir's guard. I suppose he's big enough to ground and pound from that position, but with Mir's BJJ, that would seem to be a pretty dangerous thing to do.

GnP might be all he has...HE trains with sherk so atleast he does better than lnp.

[noblemountain]

that's what i didn't understand about the fight. i've helped train wrestlers that were fighting BJJ black belts and always told them to take a shot...then get back up quickly. keep it standing and don't sit in his guard, the longer you sit there, the better chance he has to find something. brock seemed content to sit in guard and try and g'n'p him. i'm not bashing brock in any way...i respect any person who gets in the ring, but he should've had a better gameplan for this type of fight.

[Blarg]

I think for atleast the first round Brock would be able to power out of any submission to his upper body so sitting in his guard would be hammerfist time for him. Going for a kneebar was really smart for Mir as it wouldn't be so easy to power out of. I wonder how Brock would have done in a striking match with some takedowns and short GnP bursts to get points and then standing up to avoid a submission.

[Remyo]

I think for atleast the first round Brock would be able to power out of any submission to his upper body so sitting in his guard would be hammerfist time for him. Going for a kneebar was really smart for Mir as it wouldn't be so easy to power out of.

that kneebar would've been easy to power out of in the position he was in, Mir said he didn't have it real tight (iirc) and brock had his other leg in a nice position to shove off with.

I wonder how Brock would have done in a striking match with some takedowns and short GnP bursts to get points and then standing up to avoid a submission.

he was standing when he got caught

[Einherjar]

I think part of his strategy might have been to simply take him down and overwhelm him with a barrage of very hard punches non stop. If that's the case, they may want to rework that plan.

[Blarg]

I think for atleast the first round Brock would be able to power out of any submission to his upper body so sitting in his guard would be hammerfist time for him. Going for a kneebar was really smart for Mir as it wouldn't be so easy to power out of.

that kneebar would've been easy to power out of in the position he was in, Mir said he didn't have it real tight (iirc) and brock had his other leg in a nice position to shove off with.

I wonder how Brock would have done in a striking match with some takedowns and short GnP bursts to get points and then standing up to avoid a submission.

he was standing when he got caught

I think Brock is more confident with his upper body and would know he can power out of a armbar or something. Brock also did try to push his free foot against Mirs ass to get away but he was probably panicking at this point and decided not to risk injury to a guy who puts submissions on pretty tight.

Standing and backing away so it could be a striking match again, like what tim was doing to nog the first 2 rounds, is what I meant. While standing over Mir he was still in GnP mode which is not what you do if you want the fight to go standing again.

[Remyo]

I think Brock is more confident with his upper body and would know he can power out of a armbar or something. .

would be the stupidest thought ever. hips > bicep

[Blarg]

Now I know you have seen people power out of an armbar before. A first round Brock who has 20+ pounds on someone would be able to do it unless he waits until its fully locked in.

[noblemountain]

tapping was the smartest thing brock did. mir is known for locking in subs TIGHT. he makes sure you know he'll break it if you don't tap. while that knee bar wasn't textbook by any stretch...i'm sure it had enough on it to scare brock who's not knowledgable about jiu jitsu. often times people tap out of panic more so than pain or real danger.

[archibaldcrane]

The thing is, Brock's first fight he won using no-leverage short-throw punches to a (less skilled) dude's head in guard. You aren't supposed to be able to attack well while your opponent is in guard, but he had enough strength to do so. He tried and was succeeding in doing the same thing this time, but the "back of the head" hit fucked him over. He just needs to learn how to either approach someone in GnP from standing better, or learn not to ...well, he kinda did everything wrong after they were stood back up.

Anyway, I'm curious how he'll do in future fights - I'd love to see him fight a good striker with great "takedown defense" to see if he could use his wrestling (NCAA, not WWE for the haters) pedigree and overcome the defense, and also to see how he'd do standing up (I don't think he'd fare nearly as well).

I'm a kind of old-school UFC fan, back when it was freakshows (sumo vs. kickboxing?) and you could...punch someone in the back of the head without refs crying foul.

Are blows to the back of the head considered way more dangerous than blows to the face? Call me a brute savage, but I enjoyed when the only rules were "no fish-hooking, no eye gouging, and no biting". Maybe that's just me.

[noblemountain]

i think fighters take advantage of the "no blows to the back of the head" thing a little much. they roll into positions that are prone, but can't be touched. that pisses me off as a fighter. i think knees while grounded should be allowed, that way we wouldn't have the BS north/south position stalemates we get sometimes and side control would be much more dangerous. punches to the back of the head aren't "much" more dangerous than those to the temple or face honestly, it just seems worse to people who don't get hit...and that's who makes the rules.

[Remyo]

i think fighters take advantage of the "no blows to the back of the head" thing a little much. they roll into positions that are prone, but can't be touched. that pisses me off as a fighter. i think knees while grounded should be allowed, that way we wouldn't have the BS north/south position stalemates we get sometimes and side control would be much more dangerous. punches to the back of the head aren't "much" more dangerous than those to the temple or face honestly, it just seems worse to people who don't get hit...and that's who makes the rules.

actually it is more dangerous to strike the back of the head due to the placement of the cervical vertebrae at the base of the skull.

[Tekki]

[quote="noblemountain"]i think fighters take advantage of the "no blows to the back of the head" thing a little much. they roll into positions that are prone, but can't be touched. that pisses me off as a fighter. i think knees while grounded should be allowed, that way we wouldn't have the BS north/south position stalemates we get sometimes and side control would be much more dangerous. punches to the back of the head aren't "much" more dangerous than those to the temple or face honestly, it just seems worse to people who don't get hit...and that's who makes the rules.[/quote]


I though ppl curl up to avoid getting smashed in the face, thats just me... Ive seen video of fighters being permanently paralyzed due to hits from the back of the head. Actually one of the most disgusting videos ive seen was a old pride video of a guy getting slammed in the back of the head and his body instantly going limp and falling to the ground.

[Einherjar]

You perhaps talking about Arona and Rampage?

Anyways, I think something that has been overshadowed by the 2 main events was the display put on by Almeida, I'm glad he's back.

[Blarg]

i think fighters take advantage of the "no blows to the back of the head" thing a little much. they roll into positions that are prone, but can't be touched. that pisses me off as a fighter. i think knees while grounded should be allowed, that way we wouldn't have the BS north/south position stalemates we get sometimes and side control would be much more dangerous. punches to the back of the head aren't "much" more dangerous than those to the temple or face honestly, it just seems worse to people who don't get hit...and that's who makes the rules.[/quote]


I though ppl curl up to avoid getting smashed in the face, thats just me... Ive seen video of fighters being permanently paralyzed due to hits from the back of the head. Actually one of the most disgusting videos ive seen was a old pride video of a guy getting slammed in the back of the head and his body instantly going limp and falling to the ground.

What fighters have been permanently paralyzed from a hit like that, I haven't heard of that so it must have been a small time org.

I still stand by my stance of the point deduction being BS, John Mcarthy commented on it saying he would have just issued a warning, and the rule book seems to state that 'intentional' hits to the back of the head are illegal but turning into the punch so it hits the back of your head aren't.