(Dynamis) Triggering Monsters 2HR

[Guitarman]

Typically when we have a ninja in a pull, the PLD picking targets will choose less dangerous mobs, (drk, war etc) to have the ls build tp on, then when we fight the NIN mob everyone unloads their WS to drop it fast as possible, with people able to stun using it after 50%. Often times, being DRK, i stun and don't even have time to attack the ninja, it goes down that quickly. If you have stuns going off, and everyone using WS on ninjas you should have no issues whatsoever. Killing this quickly doesn't give the NIN mobs time to 2HR.

[Garret]

A good way to deal with Mnk 2 hour in Dynamis is to let Pld save up TP to say +200. When you engage it have the Pld just throw out Spirits for solid damage, I have *NEVER* seen a 300tp spirits within fail to trigger hundred fists, then just throw sentinel off right after the animation goes. Sentinel vs. Hundred fists is laughable.

[LordMagnus]

What my LS does when we fight ninja mobs, is no WS till 30%, then everyone WS at once, pretty much 1 shotting from 30.

[Rags]

In an area where we fight allot of Nin in a small space like in Windy we have a couple rules. Group A usually hits Nin number one with their WS when the mobs HP is around 40%. If it doesn't die a drk or 2 will do a stun order. Then group B will be up for next Nin mob. For Mnk type mobs the BLM seem to bounce the mob back and forth with nukes when it 2 hours.

Not to sure if its a good strat but it seems to work most of the times.

[Mojo]

The statement's bullshit. The reason why you see mobs 2hr after WSs is simply because the WS drops their HP in a big chunk, lowering it to the point where it 2hrs. Most mobs* are increasingly likely to use their 2hr as their HP gets low, and spike damage helps them get to that lower HP *faster*. It does not CAUSE the 2hr, because if nobody WSs, the mobs still 2hr at exactly the same percent, it just happens sooner with WSs because the mob is dying faster. I'll give an example to make it a bit clearer.

This is isn't completely true. Spike damage can definitely trigger 2 hour abilities. It's very easy to observe this on Sky gods, Suzaku in particular. Put 3 RNG and a BRD in a PT and have them all open with Sidewinder > Barrage > Sidewinder. Although this isn't likely to take Suzaku below 80%, it will activate Chainspell nearly every single time, often as soon as reaching 90% HP. I think the 'spike damage' trigger, like Wizerd seems to believe, is most likely a check on how fast the mobs HP% is dropping. It would explain why Curse seemingly trigger Hundred Fists.

There are obviously other factors that contribute to when the mob uses the 2 hour ability, time and current HP% being the most obvious ones. To me, it seems like every two hour has its own special set of conditions that determine when they're activated, not all of them being completely unique.

[TacoTaru]

/l TP/Stuns @ 50%

works everytime

[Kimiko]

Mijin Gakure is just too random for any one method to be truly effective. Case on point, the Orc NIN NM @ Beaucedine (at NM lake). Normally we will not even melee the orc NM's due to charmga, however during one of our recent runs the NIN blew unexpectedly @ 85-90% (near full wipe from it), then a 2nd mijin went at around 15-20%.

Shit is situational I guess. However, for most nin's, a good stun order from blm & drks should prevent bout 95% of all mijins.

[Zosi]

The statement's bullshit. The reason why you see mobs 2hr after WSs is simply because the WS drops their HP in a big chunk, lowering it to the point where it 2hrs. Most mobs* are increasingly likely to use their 2hr as their HP gets low, and spike damage helps them get to that lower HP *faster*. It does not CAUSE the 2hr, because if nobody WSs, the mobs still 2hr at exactly the same percent, it just happens sooner with WSs because the mob is dying faster. I'll give an example to make it a bit clearer.

This is isn't completely true. Spike damage can definitely trigger 2 hour abilities. It's very easy to observe this on Sky gods, Suzaku in particular. Put 3 RNG and a BRD in a PT and have them all open with Sidewinder > Barrage > Sidewinder. Although this isn't likely to take Suzaku below 80%, it will activate Chainspell nearly every single time, often as soon as reaching 90% HP. I think the 'spike damage' trigger, like Wizerd seems to believe, is most likely a check on how fast the mobs HP% is dropping. It would explain why Curse seemingly trigger Hundred Fists.

There are obviously other factors that contribute to when the mob uses the 2 hour ability, time and current HP% being the most obvious ones. To me, it seems like every two hour has its own special set of conditions that determine when they're activated, not all of them being completely unique.

I can agree with that, but I'd say that in situations like Dynamis where you have 20+ people beating on something, the other factors (HP, time) will tend to be the dominant ones rather than whether someone WSed or not.

In either case, I think that Situation C as I described above is still the best way to deal with NIN mobs. I'd rather have something die in an orgy of WS damage without 2hring at all than draw out the fight and hope that one of your stuns catches it.

[Kaylia]

Thought it was obvious 2h are triggerd at certain hp%...guess not

WAR - 80~95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
MNK - 80~95%, always when the first damage is dealt (usually waits until 90-95% if the first damage doesn't do enough).
WHM - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill; killing fast will cause it to not Benediction, even without stuns.
RDM - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
BLM - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
THF - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%.
PLD - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%.
DRK - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
BRD - 80~95%, but lolSV.
RNG - 20~50%, almost impossible to avoid unless you instantly kill it during a single stun.
BST - Never really observed, but about halfway?
SAM - 50~80%, I think.
NIN - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill.
DRG - 80-95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
SMN - 0~50%, they are weak so it's very easy to prevent 2hr at all by WSing @ 50%. I noticed they seem to 2hr about 2-3 seconds after reaching 50%

I would argue that mnk is 90%. In dyna, I used to trigger mnk's 2h with a nuke+sleep to waste it while melee were killing something else. It would never use it on resisted nuke above 94%, but will always use it when it drop to 89%.

Might be wrong, but isnt DRG demon always popping wyvern after first hit?

[Wizerd]

Thought it was obvious 2h are triggerd at certain hp%...guess not

WAR - 80~95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
MNK - 80~95%, always when the first damage is dealt (usually waits until 90-95% if the first damage doesn't do enough).
WHM - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill; killing fast will cause it to not Benediction, even without stuns.
RDM - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
BLM - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
THF - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%.
PLD - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%.
DRK - Never really observed, useless 2hr.
BRD - 80~95%, but lolSV.
RNG - 20~50%, almost impossible to avoid unless you instantly kill it during a single stun.
BST - Never really observed, but about halfway?
SAM - 50~80%, I think.
NIN - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill.
DRG - 80-95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
SMN - 0~50%, they are weak so it's very easy to prevent 2hr at all by WSing @ 50%. I noticed they seem to 2hr about 2-3 seconds after reaching 50%

I would argue that mnk is 90%. In dyna, I used to trigger mnk's 2h with a nuke+sleep to waste it while melee were killing something else. It would never use it on resisted nuke above 94%, but will always use it when it drop to 89%.

Might be wrong, but isnt DRG demon always popping wyvern after first hit?

My numbers are approximates of course. From my observation, yes the demons always pop their wyverns from the first sign of damage. However, the demon NM will wait until about 90-95% and DRGs in cities will wait a couple seconds after first damage I think.

MNK @ 90% seems about right.

[Toxictaru]

I've been in 3 different dynamis shells, and all three have treated it differently. One basically just attacked and hoped for the best, one refused to let anyone melee, and instead manaburned them (which usually resulted in dead BLMs because they have lolhp), and my current one (and someone else from that shell already posted here) doesn't do anything to silence the mobs.

So far, from what I've seen, is that there is no real way to control 2hrs. They happen. Some mobs seem to be a lot easier to trigger (I've yet to see a BST mob NOT Familiar), and others seem somewhat harder (NIN mobs, in comparison). Do I buy in to any of it? Not really. I think I've read of every single possible way a linkshell could deal with Mijin, and everyone somehow still manages to get hit by a few. Someone already said something about superstitions in this thread (THF getting the killshot), and thats probably what it is. I think the best way to deal with NIN mobs is the way my current shell handles it, take out the less dangerous mobs and save your TP. Throw 20 melees on a NIN mob that all have TP and you're going to kill it before it even has a chance to realize that it CAN 2hr. Silenced or not.

Most of the time, though, its just a placebo... most people worry so much about NIN mobs that they fire off whatever the hell they can to kill them as fast as possible, which leaves little room for them to 2hr, whereas you're not going to unload everything you have trying to kill, I dunno, a WHM or a RDM, because who the hell cares about Benediction or Chainspell. The thing to remember is that somehow, someway, you're occasionally going to get hit by it.

[Kaludneisucks]

Wow.

I admit i have never been to dynamis as any of my Melee job options, i am always WHM.

Mijin isn't very frightening is it? Toss up a Barfira, have a SMN SS yer PT's Pull and Zerg. I know for a FACT my ls cannot possibly be organized enough to stun a NIN's 2hr in dynamis intentionally, and weve done several hundred runs together, yet we dont wipe, is it really anything a curaga2 cant fix? We don't draw huge numbers to events either, so its not like i'm saying need to rush with 64 pplz.
Then again i have little to no idea about what goes on in the BLM PT's either, apart from sitting next to one for the last few years too... maybe we have one blm assigned to that sort of thing, but i highly doubt it ^^;

As for MNK mobs, we have a trusted RDM BLM and NIN trigger and sleep one when there are multiples, or have a pally voke and sentinel. Laughter ensues.



For NM mobs sure theres a bit more order, but really ....

[Wizerd]

you're not going to unload everything you have trying to kill, I dunno, a WHM or a RDM, because who the hell cares about Benediction or Chainspell. The thing to remember is that somehow, someway, you're occasionally going to get hit by it.

If you're not unloading on WHMs you're wasting time in Dynamis. It's very easy to kill a WHM before it has a chance to 2hr, and every 15 seconds you save means something unless you clear out the entire area with time to spare. I run with 25-30, so we only manage to fully clear Bastok usually, come pretty close to San d'Oria / Windurst and a little ways from Jeuno but decently close.

[Krye]

You'll have to forgive me for not knowing since my highest job is 57, but do dynamis mobs have different mechanics than regular NM's?

If they don't, I think your question could be easily tested by having a blm(for controlled damage) run out to Delkfutt's Tower and kill Mimas a few times.

I can't recall because it's been a while since I played, but I think I only used melee attacks on Mimas when I fought him because any form of spike damage such as weapon skills or nukes would make him 2 hour early. I would test it myself for you, but I don't have access to the game anymore.

I suggest Mimas because of his low respawn time, so you could test what hp percentage it usually 2 hours and you could test whether weapon skills set off the 2 hour or use different nukes to determine if a set amount of spike damage sets it off.

But of course, if dynamis mobs act differently, then I just wasted your time and mine and I apologize.

[miokomioko]

Never seen a problem with Mijin Gakure as long as whatever DRKs, BLMs, and any RDM/DRKs around just toss a random stun out during the last 30%-ish of a NIN's HP. Any stun will last the duration of that 30%>>0% with a TP burn.

[Xhu]

NIN mobs, save TP then let it lose at 40-50%, and call for stuns. Nothing much to it there.

And for MNK 2hr sentinal works a treat assuming you have a PLD tank in there somewhere.

[Eddard]

hey xhu whats up man? when you guys doing that omega run you asked me to show up for?

but anyways, as its been posted many a time, saving TP until 40-50% then unloading usually kills any nin mob. for xarc. nins maybe wait until 30-40%. xarc. NM nin i dont i've ever seen it 2hr above 30% ever. saving a skillchain for 50% and bursting will help. Also a stun order is pretty nice too. 4-5 blms stunning in 6-8sec intervals can almost stun lock any mob. between those two methods, seeing that 2hr will be reduced imo.

2hr'ing mnks are just plan easy to deal with in normal zones. if you have pld tanks just sentinel them. if not, have a blm grav > nuke > sleep 2hr. then fight something else while you wait for it to wear off. you can nuke down mnks so easily in normal zones too.

i dunno just my take on it from all my experiences. honestly a 2hr'ing nin shouldnt scare any experienced ls.

[Nyuneko]

WAR - 80~95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
MNK - 80~95%, always when the first damage is dealt (usually waits until 90-95% if the first damage doesn't do enough).
WHM - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill; killing fast will cause it to not Benediction, even without stuns.
RDM - 50%-75%; doesn't really matter for most cases, the RDM should be silenced anyway, I believe the Xarcabard NMs are immune to silence, but that can easily be fixed with heavy melee damage and stuns.
BLM - 50%-75%; again, long as it's silenced, this 2h has no threat at all, and for Xarcabard when they are immune to silence, just have the BLM, DRK, BLU and/or RDM/DRK to watch it with Stun.
THF - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%, could use same tactic as NIN, stun and WS spam the last 50%, works pretty well in cities when monsters are weak.
PLD - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%, could use same tactic as NIN, stun and WS spam the last 50%, works pretty well in cities when monsters are weak.
DRK - 50%-75%; it can hurt, but it is absorbed by shadows anyway; until the smart BLM overnuke and feed 200+ HP a drain to the NM *raises hand*.
BRD - 80~95%, but lolSV.
RNG - 20~50%, almost impossible to avoid unless you instantly kill it during a single stun.
BST - 50%-75%; kill pet 1st, and if it uses 2h before resummoning pet, you get to kill your tank.
SAM - 50~80%, I think.
NIN - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill.
DRG - 80-95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
SMN - 0~50%, they are weak so it's very easy to prevent 2hr at all by WSing @ 50%. I noticed they seem to 2hr about 2-3 seconds after reaching 50%

Just finishing the list for Wizerd, not much else to add really. All from my experience really, and numbers may vary when you stunned it at the right time.

Safest bet is always "TP at 50% with everyone spamming stun on it", and it really surprised me that this thread got to page 2... Well, I do like the idea of triggering MNK's 2h by nuke+sleep, guess I will try it next Dienamis.

[Wizerd]

WAR - 80~95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
MNK - 80~95%, always when the first damage is dealt (usually waits until 90-95% if the first damage doesn't do enough).
WHM - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill; killing fast will cause it to not Benediction, even without stuns.
RDM - 50%-75%; doesn't really matter for most cases, the RDM should be silenced anyway, I believe the Xarcabard NMs are immune to silence, but that can easily be fixed with heavy melee damage and stuns.
BLM - 50%-75%; again, long as it's silenced, this 2h has no threat at all, and for Xarcabard when they are immune to silence, just have the BLM, DRK, BLU and/or RDM/DRK to watch it with Stun.
THF - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%, could use same tactic as NIN, stun and WS spam the last 50%, works pretty well in cities when monsters are weak.
PLD - 20~50%, usually tries to 2hr right around 50%, could use same tactic as NIN, stun and WS spam the last 50%, works pretty well in cities when monsters are weak.
DRK - 50%-75%; it can hurt, but it is absorbed by shadows anyway; until the smart BLM overnuke and feed 200+ HP a drain to the NM *raises hand*.
BRD - 80~95%, but lolSV.
RNG - 20~50%, almost impossible to avoid unless you instantly kill it during a single stun.
BST - 50%-75%; kill pet 1st, and if it uses 2h before resummoning pet, you get to kill your tank.
SAM - 50~80%, I think.
NIN - 0~20%, if taking too long to kill.
DRG - 80-95%, similar to a MNK, almost always right when damage is dealt.
SMN - 0~50%, they are weak so it's very easy to prevent 2hr at all by WSing @ 50%. I noticed they seem to 2hr about 2-3 seconds after reaching 50%

Just finishing the list for Wizerd, not much else to add really. All from my experience really, and numbers may vary when you stunned it at the right time.

Safest bet is always "TP at 50% with everyone spamming stun on it", and it really surprised me that this thread got to page 2... Well, I do like the idea of triggering MNK's 2h by nuke+sleep, guess I will try it next Dienamis.

We don't really silence the RDMs because nothing they can cast with Chainspell will hurt anyone. That's what Utsusemi is for. As for PLD, it won't hurt them enough to matter anyway.

Also, never kill pet before BST; a resummoned mob that drops nothing is a huge waste of time.

Blood Weapon drains back max 150-200 HP per hit, and it might get 2 hits off before it's dead anyway. Oh noes. Haha.

[Nyuneko]

We don't really silence the RDMs because nothing they can cast with Chainspell will hurt anyone. That's what Utsusemi is for. As for PLD, it won't hurt them enough to matter anyway.

Also, never kill pet before BST; a resummoned mob that drops nothing is a huge waste of time.

Blood Weapon drains back max 150-200 HP per hit, and it might get 2 hits off before it's dead anyway. Oh noes. Haha.

Well, the diaga spam is annoying when I am semi-AFKing next to the melee as BLM... I can't /heal after without erasing!

As for BST, I wasn't suggesting to kill pet before, but when a run starts to get boring, getting charmed by BST can be fun! No EXP loss when killed while charmed anyway!

Yeah for Blood Weapon, I didn't say you were wrong that it isn't a threat(was just completing your list for the sake of completion), but it's sorta frustrating that I drain it for 100, and it soul weapon me for 200... Gotta stop overnuking randomly, I guess.