Super Tuesday (and the other primaries)

[Correction]

I'm expecting a gigantic ultimate bloody showdown in the coming month.

Or someone from the party could step in (Ted Kennedy would work, but he might not want to) and go "guys, quit it. Can we have a little unity around here?"

Ted Kennedy did step in and Obama didn't even carry his state.

ONLY GORE CAN SAVE US NOW.

There's quite a few party notables that haven't endorsed yet.. Dean, Gore, Edwards..

Personally I'd like to see someone like Noam Chomsky make an endorsement.

Chomsky is much too much a polarizing figure to get any requests for endoresement. Neither Obama nor Clinton want to be seen moving that far left this soon before the general election campaigning begins.

[evilbau]

Clinton hinted this morning about the possibility of Obama on the ticket... as VP. I think this is a really smart move, even though she knows hes not going to take it. I think Gore would make an interesting VP choice for Clinton, if things get too hostile for a Clinton/Obama ticket.

[Xavier]

Who'd want to be VP twice (not twice as in two-terms)? I'd love a Clinton/Obama ticket, with Obama running for President again in 8 years, but I can't imagine either candidate swallowing their pride when both are so close in delegates and neither can single handedly win the nomination.

[Charla]

Who'd want to be VP twice (not twice as in two-terms)?

Does this count?

Two served under two different Presidents

George Clinton under Thomas Jefferson and James Madison
John C. Calhoun under John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson

They were 8 years in a row, but still "twice" as in with different presidents.

[evilbau]

Who'd want to be VP twice (not twice as in two-terms)? I'd love a Clinton/Obama ticket, with Obama running for President again in 8 years, but I can't imagine either candidate swallowing their pride when both are so close in delegates and neither can single handedly win the nomination.

Well, hes never going to be elected president (Gore) and he can promote his environmental agenda more effectively (imo) from VP spot than as a private citizen, but you are right he may not want the restrictions public office holds. I think it would make for a good ticket and he would be a good vice president (again).

[Xavier]

Insert comment about Gore having already been elected President here.

[kyod]

I love how people bash Hillary's ads as negative when they weren't even that negative to begin with, they're tame by 2000 and 2004 standards.

[Correction]

I love how people bash Hillary's ads as negative when they weren't even that negative to begin with, they're tame by 2000 and 2004 standards.

Her speeches are also very negative, like her famous sarcastic 'angelic choir' speech just before the last run of primaries. When you're the first to go negative it's always newsworthy. She won't be surprising anybody when she continues this trend into Pennsylvania. Hillary's campaign will be remembered for her negative tactics and pulling shit like campaigning in Florida/Michigan after promising not to more than it will for any positive influence for change she promised.

[evilbau]

You know what they say about being VP: "Its the job nobody wants, but no one can turn down."

For the Ron Paul supporters, msnbc has an article about his presidency:

Whatever happened to Ron Paul?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23485858/

[kyod]

I love how people bash Hillary's ads as negative when they weren't even that negative to begin with, they're tame by 2000 and 2004 standards.

Her speeches are also very negative, like her famous sarcastic 'angelic choir' speech just before the last run of primaries. When you're the first to go negative it's always newsworthy. She won't be surprising anybody when she continues this trend into Pennsylvania. Hillary's campaign will be remembered for her negative tactics and pulling shit like campaigning in Florida/Michigan after promising not to more than it will for any positive influence for change she promised.

See, based on other political campaigns, her speeches aren't that bad. They're pretty damn tame if you look at political elections of the past. Everyone remembers how bad it was in '04, and in '00 it was exactly play-nice. '92 was pretty bad as well, when Clinton was elected.

She's pointing out how novice Obama is and how he has no actual plan to change. His recent flubs haven't helped him in that regard.

This entire primary season has been way too nice so far. Even the negative attacks that people say are happening aren't even that negative. If Obama can't stand the heat of some really really light ads against him, how will he handle it when the GOP go all out on him like they did with Kerry? Hillary has sustained alot of media scrutiny and hasn't cracked under pressure, whereas Obama is seen as the golden child and rarely gets media scrutiny.

Looking objectively, if you compare the bad press Hillary has with Obama, he's getting off insanely light.

[Dein]

Looking objectively, if you compare the bad press Hillary has with Obama, he's getting off insanely light.

I always find statements like this ironic if you stop and consider that if Hillary didn't have the Clinton name to stand on she'd be under a ton of pressure to drop out from the media. In fact, if Obama had been in the position Hillary was in before March 4th he probably would've been forced to drop out so yeah, Hillary's been getting it pretty easy in that regard. Also considering that her camp was saying she needed huge victories in Ohio and Texas (getting 65% of the delegates or more) last month, the media is really letting her off by not really bringing up the fact that not did she not manage those kind of wins but that she's even looking at gaining less delegates from Texas than Obama.

[kyod]

Looking objectively, if you compare the bad press Hillary has with Obama, he's getting off insanely light.

I always find statements like this ironic if you stop and consider that if Hillary didn't have the Clinton name to stand on she'd be under a ton of pressure to drop out from the media. In fact, if Obama had been in the position Hillary was in before March 4th he probably would've been forced to drop out so yeah, Hillary's been getting it pretty easy in that regard. Also considering that her camp was saying she needed huge victories in Ohio and Texas (getting 65% of the delegates or more) last month, the media is really letting her off by not really bringing up the fact that not did she not manage those kind of wins but that she's even looking at gaining less delegates from Texas than Obama.

Conversely, if Obama didn't have the Keynote Address at the 2004 DNC to stand on, 90% of the country would have had no idea who he was and I doubt is if he'd even have gotten this far in his campaign. See, I can speculate too.

The bottom line is that Hillary has taken a beating from the media, whereas Obama is generally celebrated by the media. I haven't found many news outlets that feature pundits making the sharp criticisms of Obama as they had of Hillary. But when Hillary points out flaws in Obama, all of the sudden she's launching vicious ads at him.

The media right now is looking at the fact that Obama outspent Hillary 2-1 in Texas and Ohio and he couldn't pull out victories there. That's pretty impressive.

[Vail]

this whole election thing just reminds me of "american idol"

too much crap being based on youthful popularity, and not enough about accually talent/skill for the job.

Then the other way I look at it is buying a nomination, where Obama is literally throwing multi amounts of money at this election compared to Hilary. Last numbers I saw showed Obama using 30million in febuary vs hilary's 4million. I mean that's just straight fucking crazy to be spending that much money to only be barely beating Hilary. If he didn't have that kinda obsene amount of money to throw at this I don't think he'd have made it this far.

Either way this election is interesting cause it kinda feeds my Demolition Man Theory (where arnold schwarzenegger ends up being president)
with money and popularity being such a driving force this elelction: all that's needed now is for steps to revoke the requirement of being a national born citizen and we'll have the "Governator" in the white house by 2020.

Personal notes : If Obama is the democrat's nominee I'll be voting republican(McCain) for the first time in my life. I've always identified as a democrat, but these primaries for the democrats is really making me see the republican way. If Hilary is the nominee: I'm not sure, It's likely I'll stick to democrats for my vote, but I could be swayed to vote for McCain. Either way the good thing is this election is opening myself up to understanding both parties instead of sticking to one only and ultimately like I did before when I was younger. (We young people in general are stupid, we really should listen to some of our elders better)

[Dein]

Conversely, if Obama didn't have the Keynote Address at the 2004 DNC to stand on, 90% of the country would have had no idea who he was and I doubt is if he'd even have gotten this far in his campaign. See, I can speculate too.

The bottom line is that Hillary has taken a beating from the media, whereas Obama is generally celebrated by the media. I haven't found many news outlets that feature pundits making the sharp criticisms of Obama as they had of Hillary. But when Hillary points out flaws in Obama, all of the sudden she's launching vicious ads at him.

The media right now is looking at the fact that Obama outspent Hillary 2-1 in Texas and Ohio and he couldn't pull out victories there. That's pretty impressive.

While it probably did help Obama to speak at the DNC last year saying that that event alone helped him this much is a terrible attempt to debunk what I said. I brought up the issue about the media not pressuring Hillary into dropping because if you've payed attention to the delegate math then you'd know that as it stands Hillary won't win the nomination unless either all the super delegates decide to ignore the voters and go to Hillary or Obama somehow destroys his campaign. Even with her wins last night Hillary is projected to only win a net of around 10 delegates at best right now and that won't close the gap between her and Obama enough that she'll win. As for the supposed media bias against Hillary she really does bring it on herself when her group starts the attacks ("Shame on you Obama" is a recent example). I can't really say I've seen Obama publicly go after someone unless they've said something to or about him and besides, the media loves conflict.

Then the other way I look at it is buying a nomination, where Obama is literally throwing multi amounts of money at this election compared to Hilary. Last numbers I saw showed Obama using 30million in febuary vs hilary's 4million. I mean that's just straight fucking crazy to be spending that much money to only be barely beating Hilary. If he didn't have that kinda obsene amount of money to throw at this I don't think he'd have made it this far.

Yeah, 30 million spent in the month of February and all it got him was 11 straight wins! Wait...

[Charla]

Dein, the quote in your sig looks interesting, but the video got baleeted. What was it about?

edit: Apparently I need to lrn2google. Still kinda want to see that scene though... masochism and all that you know...

[kyod]

Conversely, if Obama didn't have the Keynote Address at the 2004 DNC to stand on, 90% of the country would have had no idea who he was and I doubt is if he'd even have gotten this far in his campaign. See, I can speculate too.

The bottom line is that Hillary has taken a beating from the media, whereas Obama is generally celebrated by the media. I haven't found many news outlets that feature pundits making the sharp criticisms of Obama as they had of Hillary. But when Hillary points out flaws in Obama, all of the sudden she's launching vicious ads at him.

The media right now is looking at the fact that Obama outspent Hillary 2-1 in Texas and Ohio and he couldn't pull out victories there. That's pretty impressive.

While it probably did help Obama to speak at the DNC last year saying that that event alone helped him this much is a terrible attempt to debunk what I said. I brought up the issue about the media not pressuring Hillary into dropping because if you've payed attention to the delegate math then you'd know that as it stands Hillary won't win the nomination unless either all the super delegates decide to ignore the voters and go to Hillary or Obama somehow destroys his campaign. Even with her wins last night Hillary is projected to only win a net of around 10 delegates at best right now and that won't close the gap between her and Obama enough that she'll win. As for the supposed media bias against Hillary she really does bring it on herself when her group starts the attacks ("Shame on you Obama" is a recent example). I can't really say I've seen Obama publicly go after someone unless they've said something to or about him and besides, the media loves conflict.

Then the other way I look at it is buying a nomination, where Obama is literally throwing multi amounts of money at this election compared to Hilary. Last numbers I saw showed Obama using 30million in febuary vs hilary's 4million. I mean that's just straight fucking crazy to be spending that much money to only be barely beating Hilary. If he didn't have that kinda obsene amount of money to throw at this I don't think he'd have made it this far.

Yeah, 30 million spent in the month of February and all it got him was 11 straight wins! Wait...

I live in Chicago. Before DNC Obama wasn't even that widely known here. If he didn't make that speech I hardly doubt other people would have even considered him as a candidate in Illinois, let alone the entire country.

According to most pundits, Obama and Hillary won't be able to win enough delegates to be nominated. I don't see why she should be pressured into dropping when she can very easily negotiate her way to get Obama to step down behind closed doors during the convention. Her bowing out now would be a incredibly stupid decision since those Superdelegates are what the nomination ends up riding on, and Hillary does best with Superdelegates.

The reason Obama doesn't go after anyone is because of his "new politics" attitude. However Hillary's ads questioning his resolve affected voters opinions. He can't attack back because then he would alienate his entire "new politics" base. If he doesn't attack back, then he is viewed as weak. He backed himself into such a corner he can't win with whatever response he does.

And again, Hillary's shit is so much tamer than primaries of the past.

[Olo401]

The reason Obama doesn't go after anyone is because of his "new politics" attitude. However Hillary's ads questioning his resolve affected voters opinions. He can't attack back because then he would alienate his entire "new politics" base. If he doesn't attack back, then he is viewed as weak. He backed himself into such a corner he can't win with whatever response he does.

The past couple days have been a shitstorm over at DailyKos man.. before Tuesday there were constant double and triple-postings of stuff about Obama that had already been proven to be false.. Now you won't see any of that crap around at all, and in its place everyone's trying to feed Obama stuff so he can attack Hillary. I haven't ever seen a shift like this, and I've been reading & posting on DailyKos for about 5 YEARS.

[Amele]

speaking of canada and nafta. canada public broadcaster (CBC, their version of PBS) recently aired this news piece:

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/vsu/wmv-...memo080303.wmv (windows media)

cliffnotes: basically, the harper government manufactured the whole thing in an attempt to sow discord between the democrats and bolster the republican chances in november. this is big deal news in canada right now and hopefully US' mainstream media will pick up on it too.


but yeah, basically; obama's flat denial was completely justified; not only was the meeting not prompted by his group, it wasn't with the embassy in washington -and- the NAFTA discussion was a handful of minutes in a meeting over an hour and a half long (and the statements actually made by his rep were consistent with his public stance).

I kind of feel bad for OH honestly, the real losers in this whole fiasco are the voters who were misinformed by a fourth estate too gleeful to splash the latest 'scandal' to do their homework first.

[Charla]

What's a fourth estate? Like a fourth player in the game? So that would make the third player Canada/Harper, and the fourth is the American media?

[kyod]

I kind of feel bad for OH honestly, the real losers in this whole fiasco are the voters who were misinformed by a fourth estate too gleeful to splash the latest 'scandal' to do their homework first.

Ohio was never going to be an Obama state. The "scandal" didn't magically cause voters to change their minds. The way a candidate wins Ohio is appealing to the people outside of the major population areas, ie suburban/rural white voters. Obama won 5 counties, the ones he did win were either in major population centers or college towns. Hillary had mass appeal across the state and the support from major players in Ohio. In fact, Obama only won 53% in Cuyahoga County (where Cleveland is and where I grew up).

Obama also went advertisement crazy across the Cleveland area, even going as far to advertise on every news media website in the region and the newspaper's website. He still couldn't pull in a big win there. The voters of OH aren't the losers, I'd call Obama the real loser in this instance.