Item Restoration "Service"??

[miokomioko]

Account theft is BLUE, not PURPLE.

[neochaos]

I hate to inform you, but that WoT means nothing. Stupid is as stupid does. Your post made a lot of sense, but to the outright blatant igorance some people have shown in this thread, I can easily say someone will come back saying something along the lines of the exact opposite you said.




And by the way, I'm going to change my name to Neochaos™, that way in case I get hacked, I can sue for Identity theft, cause thats what cool kids do.

[Izzy]

steaming pile of feces

I went away for 3 hours and some new dude came in and spit dolphin shit all over the thread. Do you even read the shit you type?

[Nystul]

Ah youth, and it's incessant desire to rage against any authority figure, regardless of just cause. They are in charge? THEN THEY MUST BE WRONG! I also love it when people know just enough to look stupid.

[Valisk]

http://www.wackypackages.org/realpro...trix_small.jpg

Find the hidden Trix and get a free law degree!

/win

[Sesshoumaru]

Law degrees come in Corn Flakes retard not trix, if they came in trix more people would have them. All the joke and laughing you do still does not change the fact that There is no law to support that SE does or Does not have total ownership and title to all the virtual items in their game.

You could go after the RMT, would hack a much stronger case, but good luck finding/ serving them.

If a contract, or ToS (Which is a contract), is found to be invalid/ unenforceable it is not a LEGAL CONTRACT. If you douche bags bothered to read through any of those cases I posted you would see that there are many ways to get around/ void a contract/ToS. Ownership of phones, clauses for arbitration, the list goes on. There is no case law on MMORPG property rights if there was I would simply post that. I'm not arguing that SE is responsible for people getting hacked. SE can be responsible for returning items, which is in their power, to the hacked players.

Do I care if 50 million kclubs, or any item, gets duped in the process? nope not at all.
Should I? maybe.
Do I have to? nope.

I apologize to all those of you out there that feel a sting at the fact that I go to law school. Really my heart goes out to you guys. I'm crying on the inside even though I'm laughing on the outside.

On a side note:
I posted cases concerning how ToS are not always legal contracts, to be a legal contract they would have to be enforceable. However I do not see any one else providing case law to counter my argument. Until some one shows at least as many clear and definitive cases towards the other side of the argument I will simply keep referring you back to those cases. ToS are not law, they are not even legal contracts, at best before it comes before a court ToS are simply agreed upon witting which

may

or may not be binding to the parties involved.

When writing on forums I'll use the sloppiest grammar I can think of and every one else can either skip my posts or deal with it. I don't get a golden star for proper grammar when posting on forms so bite me.

[Raineer]

ban incoming
one can always hope

[Nystul]

You don't really make an argument. You kind of vaguely say something and then babble about skull fucking.

How is the contract not enforcable?


And, oh hell I'll say it again.
In order to successfully sue them, you must show ownership. If someone else creates it, creates the system for which it is obtained, allows you to obtain it only on their specific conditions, houses it, manipulates it at will, etc...they own it!

You don't in reality sell or do anything to items in the game. You may "sell" them but in reality they still sit there, housed on SE's servers.

[TacoTaru]

ToS IS NOT THE LAW

am i doin it rite?

[Nystul]

Unenforceable contract: When neither party can sue to enforce the performance of a contract.

Now, this is typically applied to contracts for which the statute of limitations has expired, or in situations like...gambling. It's a valid contract, but the courts won't hear the case so it's unenforceable.

Your argument is that you can sue for your stuff.

But you say the contract is unenforceable.

That would mean that the courts won't hear the case.

So...is it unenforceable? Can you or can you not get a court to rule on this?

[test123]

btw: don't you have to use your signature on a piece of paper to make a contract binding? Oral agreement just as strong? or in this case a series of ones and zeros as a result of clicking a button?

[Nystul]

no you don't need to sign to validate a contract.

[Sesshoumaru]

no you don't need to sign to validate a contract.

For many things you don't for some you do.

The statue of fraud will clearly explain what needs to be signed in order to be binding.

Real estate sale.
Sale of goods over 500$
Promise which can not be fulfilled within a year.
etc

Unenforceable contract: When neither party can sue to enforce the performance of a contract.

Now, this is typically applied to contracts for which the statute of limitations has expired, or in situations like...gambling. It's a valid contract, but the courts won't hear the case so it's unenforceable.

Your argument is that you can sue for your stuff.

But you say the contract is unenforceable.

That would mean that the courts won't hear the case.

So...is it unenforceable? Can you or can you not get a court to rule on this?

Sorry What ever it is your are saying does not apply to this issue, you are mistaking Illegal with unenforceable.

Contracting to have some one killed.
contracting to repay debt from illegal gambling.
Contract to pay money for sex, in most states lol.

Such things are Illegal and will not be herd at all in a court.

However when the issue goes to the validity (enforceability) of a contract court will hear the case, this is the basis of contract law; disputes over terms in a contract and the laws which effects contracts.

Courts must look at three things in determining whether a contract can or can not be enforced:

Offer: was a valid offer made.
The offeror was not joking, drunk, or mentally impaired when making the offer.

Consideration: What rights are being bargained away or for.
examples:
If two people make a contract where A will pay B $1,000 for B mowing A's lawn last week there would be no contract, past consideration is an invalid form of consideration when forming a contract.
If A contracts with B to pay B $1,000 for B to paint A's house but after the work is done a has the option to not pay for any reason that a can think of. In this situation A is not really exchanging any real promise only the illusion of a promise and thus the contract will most likely be unenforceable.

Acceptance: The offeree( person offer was made to) must accept through some means, some contract can accept silence, person does not do anything, as a form of acceptance but then the UCC would apply to determining if it was proper. usually you would have to show acceptance by performing some act writing a letter, making a phone call, sending a fax, signing a contract.

These are all issues which courts must look at in every contract before they can determine whether a contract is enforceable or not. In examining the contract the court is "Hearing" the case.

Also the UCC can modify any case law etc as it is a statute.


However this can all be better explained in law text, I'm only a student after all and not an actuall lawyer.

[Tajin]

I'm... speechless. Icon time!

[Caldor]

I'm still not sure how the hell people get their account hacked- unless you're doing high risk things (such as sharing account PW and downloading untrustworthy 3rd party stuff) in which case you kinda...get what you deserve so I could give a fuck about whether some botting douche gets their items back.

You obviously post here knowing nothing about what was going on the last 2 months. Several community websites got hacked and RMT added IFRAMES to them. All you had to do was visit those websites with an older version of Realplayer and Internet Explorer and you could say /farewell to your account. Those websites were respected community sites like somepage or http://www.FFXI-atlas.com. Seriously get some information before you start blaming 5000 people who lost their accounts to be cheater or stupid enough to give their passwords out.

[Sesshoumaru]

I'm... speechless. Icon time!

:nikkei: :rocl:

and that is so something not to take for

[Nystul]

An unenforceable contract or transaction is one that is valid, but which the court will not enforce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforceable

An otherwise valid contract, which the courts cannot do anything about if it is breached.
A contract for which the courts cannot help the injured party.
http://homepage.gallaudet.edu/Marshall. ... eable.html

As we mentioned earlier, a judge may find a contract unenforceable if its
terms (the specification of what the parties must do) are too vague. What
may appear clearly to express the intentions of the parties at the time
they write a contract may seem totally unclear on later analysis.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/bul02.htm

In all systems of contract law, certain classes of transactions are treated as unenforceable by the judicial process because they are thought to involve unusual hazards for a contracting party or to be of marginal social utility.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-21775/contract

Valid but defective contract which cannot be enforced by the courts.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... tract.html


Your definition of "unenforceable" seems to differ greatly from the rest of the world.

[Ryko]

I'm still not sure how the hell people get their account hacked- unless you're doing high risk things (such as sharing account PW and downloading untrustworthy 3rd party stuff) in which case you kinda...get what you deserve so I could give a fuck about whether some botting douche gets their items back.

You obviously post here knowing nothing about what was going on the last 2 months. Several community websites got hacked and RMT added IFRAMES to them. All you had to do was visit those websites with an older version of Realplayer and Internet Explorer and you could say /farewell to your account. Those websites were respected community sites like somepage or http://www.FFXI-atlas.com. Seriously get some information before you start blaming 5000 people who lost their accounts to be cheater or stupid enough to give their passwords out.

He's fully up to date with that, it still doesn't change jack fucking shit about SE's legal responsibility to fix crap on sites that don't belong to them. In SE's eyes you could have been on Hellokitty.com or hell even the XIwiki and it wouldn't mean anything different if you were on keylogR'US.com.

[Sesshoumaru]

As we mentioned earlier, a judge may find a contract unenforceable if its
terms (the specification of what the parties must do) are too vague. What
may appear clearly to express the intentions of the parties at the time
they write a contract may seem totally unclear on later analysis.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/bul02.htm

In all systems of contract law, certain classes of transactions are treated as unenforceable by the judicial process because they are thought to involve unusual hazards for a contracting party or to be of marginal social utility.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-21775/contract

Valid but defective contract which cannot be enforced by the courts.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... tract.html

In these situations a court actually hears the case, don't see your point.
One word can have variance in its meaning depending on the context.

INVALID synonym unenforceable

invalid (in-val-id), adj. 1. Not legally binding <an invalid contract>. 2. Without basis in fact <invalid allegations>.
Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004), agreement

VALID synonym to enforceable

valid, adj. 1. Legally sufficient; binding <a valid contract>. 2. Meritorious < that is a valid conclusion based on the facts presented in this case>.
Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004), agreement

This I how my reasoning goes I use them interchangeably sorry I don't post with a thesaurus in front of my face. Either way a synonym still does the job, I even used those word in my explanation so w/e. If this has simply come down to knit picking on my language and grammar then this has become boring and a waste of my time. Just because the language is not exactly the way you want it means nothing to me.

[Valisk]

By installing/logging on, you agree to accept SEI's contract.

https://secure.playonline.com/suppor..._ff11user.html

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