Item Restoration "Service"??

[ronin sparthos]

So your acknowledging you cant solve the problem so you want someone to 'solve' (more like feed you) it for you?

You can read, correct?

Wasnt talking to you was i?

[Ryko]

So your acknowledging you cant solve the problem so you want someone to 'solve' (more like feed you) it for you?

You can read, correct?

Wasnt talking to you was i?

You didn't have to be, saying he's acknowledging that he can't solve a problem is putting words into his mouth because you're substituting your viewpoint on what he said in the first place.

[Eticket]

lol @ the ex thing. They can't even get a boat to function right yet you expect the GM's to be able to make a random item 'ex' on a whim? good luck. hell, that would suck anyway. I can barely hold all the gear I have now, not being able to mule or even DB any of it would make things better how?

The problem with this argument on both sides is the 'too little too late' effect. SE is making strides to improve and fix the situation. The problem is that it's taken them this long to do it. Argue all you want on both sides. The supporters will continue to support them while the detractors will continue to point out their flaws.

There is no simple solution to all of this. If it was that easy to come up with the 100% right answer on shit like this, then we'd all be making MMOs instead of whining about them.

[S N K]

In all honesty, you should be fucking ecstatic that you even got your account back. The millions and millions of gil in gear I have isn't worth shit compared to the 4 years of time I've played the game.

Lol no fucking way. Your friends (your actual ones) are gonna be there regardless of your toon's name, exp is fucking stupid easy to come across, the item loss is the biggest kick in the balls and the largest loss of progression (see: those 4 years you spent doing shit), it is a perfectly good reason to quit. Tell your friends to get ventrilo or something.

Agreed. I honestly have no idea how Dartalion was able to pick up and start from scratch after having multiple 75s with some of the better end game gear you could get barring a ridill and an adaberk. Lost a Black Blet, Osode, HQ Sniper Rings, ect.

He's tried multiple times to get thru to SE to get his character back but so far he's only getting the run-around.

[neochaos]

If SE would have made bind on equip/pickup items in this game, and made gil a bit easier to get (like the random rare armor, etc dropping off of exp mobs), we'd all live in a better world, not having to worry about system abusal.

SE made FFXI a game that gives you a "community feeling". Friends, etc, all that bullshit. UNFORTUNATELY in the particular world we live in, more often than not, people are total fucking screwball scumbags who will, without hesitation fuck you over or abuse any system any way possible to their own gain. (Of course, thats prob just the general description of NA players). U never hear of JPs getting fucked over by other JPs, lol.

Because of people and their desires to get what they want at whatever cost, if SE opened up any windows of opportunity to have a game get abused, people will. So until SE finds a way to give back more than 1 item/items that are sold without having it become a tool of greed on part of scrubs, you're fucked. The End.






UNLESS OF COURSE YOU CAN PERSUADE EVERYONE ON FFXI NOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEMLOL

[ronin sparthos]

He asked for an idea, so i gave one to him - obviously the whole reason he posted was to get off on someone countering his post.

You didn't have to be, saying he's acknowledging that he can't solve a problem is putting words into his mouth because you're substituting your viewpoint on what he said in the first place.

If he has a problem with it, he can speak for himself. But again, hes only going to post the rhetoric that 'SE isnt responsible for morons' or 'You should be lucky SE did anything at all' all while putting the burden of proof on someone else even when reviewing the situation from the most desirable vantage point (having been not hacked at all) it's pretty easy to acknowledge/see a problem and if the problems arent blatently obvious now its simply people ignoring it or being too self-absorbed to care so long as they are fine. His response is enough for me to come to the conclusion hes one of the two.

[Ryko]

So your answer is no then.

[Charismatic]

So your answer is no then.

He'll say no, but he means yes.

[Nystul]

So your acknowledging you cant solve the problem so you want someone to 'solve' (more like feed you) it for you?

LOL hardly. I'm saying that the current setup works about as well as anyone can reasonably expect it to work, because any other "solution" brings along far more new problems. Ryko agreed with me. My comment was to say that it's the responsibility of those that don't like the system to come up with a solution, not mine or ryko's (in response to someone saying "well fine then whats your solution?").

Solution:

SE calls a date unexpectedly and everyone before it November-that day is eligible for a *full* account restoral, plus or minus a few items lost in transit. Provide your information to SE, they look it over and they forward that to the GM team to release your account. Your account then gets all its items in full back - as if the RMT never took your stuff. This would be a one-time gig for everyone affected over the holiday season, after that you go over to the 'new' system.

Sounds fine from those of us sitting back here. I wonder, though, how many requests (legit or not, simply total requests) would be entered? I wonder how many GM's it would take over how many hours to go through each request, track each item, etc. Is that economically feasible? Is it, to them and their bottom line, worth the trouble? WOuld they lose more money trying to keep a few people from quitting- people who quite frequently come back in a few months anyway?

SE also announces that they are offering new security measures to the public, at your choice - being able to change information concerning billing over the phone only, being able to have an IP 'blacklist' of places/regions not allowed to log your account into POL or FFXI, requiring entering all your previous credit card information to change information, a security question hooked up to an email address in order to change anything, an auto-logout for unfamiliar IP adresses logging into your account (for people with static IPs) and a 'block' on confirmed/suspected malicious proxies, or entering a randomly generated string of characters before going into FFXI. All these are by choice and can be toggled on or off via the PlayOnline Viewer.

SE finally announces people hacked post update sadly are not eligible for complete character restores but are eligible for partial restores of all rare/ex items. They urge to use their new security features coupled with your own, future compromised accounts will be dealt with through the help-center and once your account has been confirmed compromised the account will be given back to you swiftly and the charges for the month will be covered if you did not infact have control of the account for that month, along with reversals of services like World Transfer or deleted mules. Compromised accounts banned by Square-Enix will be returned to their respective 'owners' once investigations pending are completed.

I think the IP autologout is overkill, I think really all you have to do is have some kind of thing where if you want to change info, you click something, they send some kind of randomly generated number to a predetermined email address that is only active for a short time (hours). The only way this fails is that you're hacked during the hour long window, far less likely. And it doesn't involve a huge number of hoops to jump through. And I don't really agree with the notion of portraying the hacked as a victim which SE is responsible for bailing out. If they do put in security features like you suggest, then if you get hacked, you're doing something really stupid. You're giving people your info, and thats against SE's rules so I don't see why they should comp you the month etc.


*edit*
Since you think "se shouldn't be responsible for morons" is lame rhetoric, I'd love to hear why you think SE *should* be responsible for morons that get hacked? Should we all be responsible for morons? If you ran a car dealership, would you take back or fix for free a car that someone buys, then wrecks because they were drunk?

[Araius]

So your acknowledging you cant solve the problem so you want someone to 'solve' (more like feed you) it for you?

LOL hardly. I'm saying that the current setup works about as well as anyone can reasonably expect it to work, because any other "solution" brings along far more new problems. Ryko agreed with me. My comment was to say that it's the responsibility of those that don't like the system to come up with a solution, not mine or ryko's (in response to someone saying "well fine then whats your solution?").

In regards to that, I didn't realize Ryko was in the "the current system works fine" boat with you. I agree that if you think the current system is fine then...while I certainly don't agree with your opinion, you obviously have no reason to think up a better solution. I thought he was just flaming anyone's ideas for the hell of it because, well, people do that :rocl:

And I agree that no matter what they do in FFXI is too little too late now. I'm just hoping they have better policies regarding this stuff when they do their next MMO.

[Nystul]

In regards to that, I didn't realize Ryko was in the "the current system works fine" boat with you. I agree that if you think the current system is fine then...while I certainly don't agree with your opinion, you obviously have no reason to think up a better solution. I thought he was just flaming anyone's ideas for the hell of it because, well, people do that

Oh he WOULD do that, believe me. But yea. It's not like I think the current system is perfect, I just don't think the take back or create new concepts do anything but make things worse, and barring an overhaul of the whole thing entirely, it's really the best possible solution under the given current toolset.

[Ryko]

Yeah I've been of the mindset that it's not exactly SE's fault that people are snooping around KnightsofNihao.com or mightymorphinkungpaowerrangers.cn and getting their shit jacked >_>

[Araius]

I'd also like to note that if I see one person blame what happened in the past few months on the people who got hacked, I'm going to stab Using IE instead of Firefox and using generally regarded to be safe websites does not = got what they had coming to them.

Yeah I've been of the mindset that it's not exactly SE's fault that people are snooping around KnightsofNihao.com or mightymorphinkungpaowerrangers.cn and getting their shit jacked >_>

[Ryko]

I'd also like to note that if I see one person blame what happened in the past few months on the people who got hacked, I'm going to stab Using IE instead of Firefox and using generally regarded to be safe websites does not = got what they had coming to them.

Yeah I've been of the mindset that it's not exactly SE's fault that people are snooping around KnightsofNihao.com or mightymorphinkungpaowerrangers.cn and getting their shit jacked >_>

That's nice, it's still not their responsibility for the shit that goes down on sites that don't belong to them, I don't care how generally regarded to be safe they are. General consensus has shit to do with liability.

[Toonshady]

it IS their responsibility to take care of their customers tho. and they've been failing at that

[Ryko]

it IS their responsibility to take care of their customers tho. and they've been failing at that

What else is new, but how exactly does potentially assfucking the economy even worse than it is now make it any better.

[setzor]

it IS their responsibility to take care of their customers tho. and they've been failing at that

What else is new, but how exactly does potentially assfucking the economy even worse than it is now make it any better.

explain in detail how it would assfuck the economy. and i mean in detail. not "because a buncha items blah blah blah"

[Eticket]

1) leave sellable items alone, wherever they end up is where they end up.

pros: does not disturb or imbalance the economy by replicating billions of gil worth of items on each server, greatly deflating the economy. does not penalize those that unknowingly bought the stolen items. prevents fraudulent 'I lost my account' claims. no effect on current inventory system.

cons: seriously handicaps and fucks over the ones who get hacked/lose their accounts. does not deter account thieves from continuing to operate.


2) replace items and mark them with an 'ex' tag

pros: reimburses those that lost accounts. prevents fraudulent 'I lost my account' claims. does not penalize those that unknowingly bought the stolen items.

cons: less severe effect on economy but still negative overall as increased 'ex' items would impact players' abilities to recover gil upon changing jobs. less availability of sold items would drive demand up and make places like lolAery that much more fun. would require massive inventory system realignment as gear could not be DBoxed or muled in the current system. limited usage due to length of server logs vs recovery timeframe. does not deter account thieves from continuing to operate.


3) track items and return them to their original owners

pros: puts the initial lost account back the way it was. no effect on current inventory system. detailed item history tracking may result in punishment for those that 'stole' account.

cons: screws the buyer of said item who may not have known item was stolen/lost. much more complex overall ie: more likely for faults in the process. limited usage due to length of server logs vs recovery timeframe.


4) replicate items and give them to original owner

pros: puts the initial lost account back the way it was. no effect on current inventory system. does not penalize those that unknowingly bought the stolen items. no effect on current inventory system. detailed item history tracking may result in punishment for those that 'stole' account.

cons: does nothing to prevent abuse of system through fraudulent 'I lost my account' claims. possibility of great economy imbalance and deflation as billions of gil worth of items are introduced to the server.



There really is no right answer. Every solution has it's own problems.

[Ryko]

it IS their responsibility to take care of their customers tho. and they've been failing at that

What else is new, but how exactly does potentially assfucking the economy even worse than it is now make it any better.

explain in detail how it would assfuck the economy. and i mean in detail. not "because a buncha items blah blah blah"

I should do something, but I am already in my pajamas...

You're unsure of how a system that would allow for the duping of the few items even in high demand anymore, regardless of how long it takes (in a deflating economy something dropping in price from 50 to 45 mill means zilch when billions of gil get banned on a monthly basis) potentially funneling what gil is left towards the people who are going to get banned and can barely sell it anymore wouldn't assfuck an already struggling economy. And you expect me to do the homework for you. S'not 2005 anymore, making something that's worth 20-90 mill (in terms of a load of dynamis currency) appear out of thin air is actually a pretty big deal.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

it IS their responsibility to take care of their customers tho. and they've been failing at that

What else is new, but how exactly does potentially assfucking the economy even worse than it is now make it any better.

explain in detail how it would assfuck the economy. and i mean in detail. not "because a buncha items blah blah blah"

wtf, why don't you ask for a whitepaper detailing the "delicate relationship of chinese gilfarmers to a virtual economy" while your at it.