Item Restoration "Service"??

[ronin sparthos]

Is calling people 'stupid' the new calling every kid wearing black emo?

[Sesshoumaru]

can only encourage others to take advantage of all the legal means available to them.

I'm well aware people sues for way less than fucking pixels but..

Are you really suggesting people to sue for fucking pixels? More so when they got hacked by their own stupidity*?

You (or well, them) could sue Microsoft and Real Networks while you're at it.

*Yeah, yeah not everyone is computer savvy.

Actually not talking about them getting hacked.

I'm talking about how SE can rollback/restore an account to the same if not a close state to as it was before the hacking.
I also don't see how using IE and regular means any other reasonable person might use is stupidity.

the law takes into account reasonable people, the average joe.

Edit: to be more clear in what it is I'm saying.
It does not matter what the minority of computer savvy people will do, its what most people do. The court wouldn't look at only FFXI players when considering the means to which people went to secure their PC either they will look at the 80,000 or more grandmas and the millions of others who have their credit card info stolen because they were not a wizz with computers.

ALL banks who deal with online accounts etc have security backups to combat the very thing which has happened here, this is very much like identity theft. However while there are laws out there which banks and financial institutions must abide by SE takes the "this is not the same approach." However it is the same and thats something which will be shown if people go out and persue the matter in court.
(end edit)

But irregardless of that.

I'm talking about conversion and replevin, not who is at fault for how people got hacked.

[Tajin]

I'm talking about how SE can rollback/restore an account to the same if not a close state to as it was before the hacking.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what the fuck does SE with their backups. In fact I wonder if they do backups of anything. Which takes us to the point someone else made in the previous page, why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts?

Edit:
It sucks for those who got hacked, a very good friend of my got hit by it, I miss him, he plays LoTR now. I'm still having fun here, should I quit as a sign of friendship? maybe. Will it change anything? Only if 40% of playerbase follows me, is it going to happen?

Since none of that is going to happen, I'll keep playing until I get bored/banned/hacked and move on.

[Sesshoumaru]

I'm talking about how SE can rollback/restore an account to the same if not a close state to as it was before the hacking.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what the fuck does SE with their backups. In fact I wonder if they do backups of anything. Which takes us to the point someone else made in the previous page, why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts?

circular argument ftl.

If we went along those lines then there would be no laws in the world.
Sure peopel can move on and just give up.

But it isnt a "Why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts," sort of thing.

Picture this:

You are standing some where minding your business.
Some guy walks up to you puts a gun to your head and takes all your shit.
You go to the cops.
Cops say why do you keep goign there then?
You say its the first time that ever happened to me.
Cops say ok so just don't go there anymore.
You say but what about what happened, IN THE PAST, why won't you do something.
Cops say yeah ok kid just don't go there again and you will be fine.

That is fucking dumb and you know your ass would be in court pressing charges against that cop in a second.

[Shuemue]

Looking forward to the hearing. Good luck.

[Nystul]

It's unfortunate that you're getting academic education but you're not gaining any practical sense of how to apply it.

[Sesshoumaru]

Looking forward to the hearing. Good luck.

I didn't get hacked so i have no course of action.

thus why I encourage others to find legal means of help.

Shuemue your an idiot plain and simple I hope something horrible happens to you in your life that there are no current laws which address the matter. Then at least maybe you would learn not to be such a complete moron.

kthnx



ever think about how the government can do practically w/e they want with this new patriot act?

There are no laws to deal with all the possible shit that can come from that, go go incarceration for being a Quaker!
Hey they wore black and shook a lot we thought they had WMDs so we put there ass in jail till they told us where they are.
They still have not talked yet those bastards!

F* you and every one like your dumb ape shit self.

same goes to Nystul, who probably was home schooled by inbred rednecks who think VCRs are sex boxes. (Family Guy ftw)

[Shuemue]

You're funny. One day you'll be an adult and live in the real world.

[Nystul]

I'm talking about how SE can rollback/restore an account to the same if not a close state to as it was before the hacking.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what the fuck does SE with their backups. In fact I wonder if they do backups of anything. Which takes us to the point someone else made in the previous page, why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts?

circular argument ftl.

If we went along those lines then there would be no laws in the world.
Sure peopel can move on and just give up.

But it isnt a "Why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts," sort of thing.

Picture this:

You are standing some where minding your business.
Some guy walks up to you puts a gun to your head and takes all your shit.
You go to the cops.
Cops say why do you keep goign there then?
You say its the first time that ever happened to me.
Cops say ok so just don't go there anymore.
You say but what about what happened, IN THE PAST, why won't you do something.
Cops say yeah ok kid just don't go there again and you will be fine.

That is fucking dumb and you know your ass would be in court pressing charges against that cop in a second.

This is a terrible analogy and does not apply. The *purpose* of police is to pursue such things. The *purpose* of SE is to maintain the game environment and how you screw yourself over isn't their problem.

What you are proposing is that someone sue the owner and maintainer of a business because they were robbed there. In order to do that you'd have to show that the business was negligent. I don't see that they are.

same goes to Nystul, who probably was home schooled by inbred rednecks who think VCRs are sex boxes. (Family Guy ftw)

Graduated with a BS from a prestigious liberal arts university in the Midwest in a biology program that is widely recognized as both excellent and exceedingly difficult (which had a 100% placement rate of students in medical schools). Preparing to defend my masters thesis in Evolution and developmental genetics having worked with one of the top 5 developmental biologists in the world. And I'm published. Eat me, Junior.

[Tajin]

And I'm published. Eat me, Junior.

Nystul!, Nystul! :nikkei:

And the crowd goes wild!

[Sesshoumaru]

I'm talking about how SE can rollback/restore an account to the same if not a close state to as it was before the hacking.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what the fuck does SE with their backups. In fact I wonder if they do backups of anything. Which takes us to the point someone else made in the previous page, why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts?

circular argument ftl.

If we went along those lines then there would be no laws in the world.
Sure peopel can move on and just give up.

But it isnt a "Why do you keep getting kicked in the nuts," sort of thing.

Picture this:

You are standing some where minding your business.
Some guy walks up to you puts a gun to your head and takes all your shit.
You go to the cops.
Cops say why do you keep goign there then?
You say its the first time that ever happened to me.
Cops say ok so just don't go there anymore.
You say but what about what happened, IN THE PAST, why won't you do something.
Cops say yeah ok kid just don't go there again and you will be fine.

That is fucking dumb and you know your ass would be in court pressing charges against that cop in a second.

This is a terrible analogy and does not apply. The *purpose* of police is to pursue such things. The *purpose* of SE is to maintain the game environment and how you screw yourself over isn't their problem.

What you are proposing is that someone sue the owner and maintainer of a business because they were robbed there. In order to do that you'd have to show that the business was negligent. I don't see that they are.

If the owner then caught the robber retrieved you stolen items and refused to hand them back then you would most deffinately be able to take his ass to court, if not put him in jail.

This is not negligence I am arguing, tho I probably could if I felt like it but I wont because this is a stronger issue.

This is an act of conversion on the part of SE they refuse to return somethign that belong to you even though they can.

IF I robbed your stuff irl.
Then I gave all your shit to some one.
Then you went to them and asked them to return your stuff.
However they refuse.
You then go to court and seek replevin.

Does not matter how or who or when they got your shit. That is YOUR shit they have no title to it. The court will forced them to give it back or pay you the value of the items. Even if they payed for those items.

SE has the ability/ are in possession of all the hacked players items.
SE can return all the hacked players items.
SE refuses to do this for their own reasons "ToS."

take them to court even one of the lower courts where you don't have to pay for a lawyer.

If SE does not send a lawyer then you will probably be awarded what you ask for.
IF they do they will have to explain themselves to the judge who may or may not decide in your favor.
If you do lose, SE just spent money on paying a lawyer, thats some minor victory right there.

Worst case is you have to take a day off from work/school, or for those lazy people who don't work or go to school get up off your ass.

[Shuemue]

Bytes on a server in Japan that you pay a monthly fee to play with have no monetary value.

[Nystul]

It doesn't belong to you though. They can terminate your account if they want to, thats proof enough that anything you own doesn't belong to you. You pay them for the ability to rent space. If you break their rules, they can terminate your account and they don't have to reimburse you at all. Thats part of the agreement when you sign up. Other companies may have placed a value on their content but they do not, and as such most certainly no court will.

Items created in the game..are NOT...yours. If they were, every time SE killed an account they'd have to provide some real world financial compensation.

SE creates the items.
SE creates the methodology for you to obtain the items.
SE houses the servers on which the items are stored (note that you personally do not have, in reality or even digitally, any items. All data pertaining to your character is housed on THEIR servers.
SE can remove or alter those items at will, without your consent (change stats, change name, change color, change job usage, remove entirely).

You rent it. Thats it. You don't own shit. You claim no title on the items due to the effort put in because it's a GAME.

[Sesshoumaru]

Graduated with a BS from a prestigious liberal arts university in the Midwest in a biology program that is widely recognized as both excellent and exceedingly difficult (which had a 100% placement rate of students in medical schools). Preparing to defend my masters thesis in Evolution and developmental genetics having worked with one of the top 5 developmental biologists in the world. And I'm published. Eat me, Junior.

Graduated with a BS from one of the top ranked school in NYC which have, many many accolades.
Currently in Law School in one of the top Law schools in NYC which had a 96% passage rate on the bar last year.
Preparing to take the bar soon.
My current property proffessor was one of if not the leading attorney when it came to energy/environmental law. He has was teaching at Hoffstra before coming to my school, and has taught all around the world on the issues of property law.

I was published in my college newspaper do a get a cookie? so minor medical journal or school review is BS any one can get published there.

Listen stick to fuckign your lab pets and stay out of the big kid pool.

You know shit about law. Stop pretending you do. Masters in genetics does not equal a law degree.

[Tajin]

From Playonline:

Article 2: Data Collection and Privacy
In the course of your playing the Game and using the PlayOnline Service, you may accumulate certain usage statistics, score information, character traits, performance records and other Game-related data that are stored for you in the Game and on PlayOnline servers (collectively, your "Player Data"). SEI makes no assurances, representations or warranties whatsoever about the accuracy, currency or continuing availability of this Player Data at any time and reserves its right, at any time and from time to time, without notice to you, to delete all or any part of your Player Data. SEI shall have no liability to you or to any third party for any such deletion, and further shall not be held responsible for any complete or partial deletion done or caused by you, any third party, or other act or occurrence beyond SEI's reasonable control, such as a fire, power outage, natural disaster, terrorist act, equipment failure or any other such act or occurrence, whether or not similar to the foregoing. In addition, your Player Data and other information about you are subject to our PlayOnline Service Privacy Policy, which you should review in its entirety and may be accessed under the "Rules & Policies" section of the PlayOnline Viewer and Website. You agree that you will not store or attempt to store any personal information or player data about other PlayOnline users, except to the extent that such storage is an integral part of the Game and necessary in order for you to play the Game.

[BerenTebogo]

I don't know how it isn't common knowledge this guy is as knowledgeable as a dead cow, but he's in law school like I can suck my own dick.

[Tajin]

That makes no sense. whoosh?

[Nystul]

Graduated with a BS from a prestigious liberal arts university in the Midwest in a biology program that is widely recognized as both excellent and exceedingly difficult (which had a 100% placement rate of students in medical schools). Preparing to defend my masters thesis in Evolution and developmental genetics having worked with one of the top 5 developmental biologists in the world. And I'm published. Eat me, Junior.

Graduated with a BS from one of the top ranked school in NYC which have, many many accolades.
Currently in Law School in one of the top Law schools in NYC which had a 96% passage rate on the bar last year.
Preparing to take the bar soon.
My current property proffessor was one of if not the leading attorney when it came to energy/environmental law. He has was teaching at Hoffstra before coming to my school, and has taught all around the world on the issues of property law.

I was published in my college newspaper do a get a cookie? so minor medical journal or school review is BS any one can get published there.

Listen stick to fuckign your lab pets and stay out of the big kid pool.

You know shit about law. Stop pretending you do. Masters in genetics does not equal a law degree.

You don't have a law degree either.

I never called your education into question. You called mine into question. I simply stated that you're unable to apply your book knowledge to the real world. Common among young academics. Too focused on the letter of the law to consider it's proper application beyond the technical.

And I was published in a peer reviewed nationally recognized journals. My work and the work of my lab has been published in a number of journals including Science and Nature (the most prestigious journals out there) and my work has been cited numerous times by leaders in the developmental field. You know shit about what I do, don't pretend to.

However I know enough about how the world works and law in general to know that you're reaching pretty fucking far with this.

[Sesshoumaru]

It doesn't belong to you though. They can terminate your account if they want to, thats proof enough that anything you own doesn't belong to you. You pay them for the ability to rent space. If you break their rules, they can terminate your account and they don't have to reimburse you at all. Thats part of the agreement when you sign up. Other companies may have placed a value on their content but they do not, and as such most certainly no court will.

Items created in the game..are NOT...yours. If they were, every time SE killed an account they'd have to provide some real world financial compensation.

everything you said is invalid.

TOS does not equal law.

If I came to your house a stapled a sticky to your head saying this would you get it then?

Until people take SE to court don't try and pass off the ToS of SE as law, also once they change their ToS any ruling rendered on the original ToS decided upon may become invalid.

I have seen some really funny shit in contracts, as I read over the toS of SE the simple fact that "They can cancel your service at anytime with out cause" borderd, may, make their entire ToS illusory.

Illusory for those of you who are trying to play lawyer mean invalid, fake, no good.

There has to be three things to form a contract.

Offer
Consideration
Acceptance

If any of those do not exist a contract (ToS) is invalid and never existed.

Illusory promises do not form consideration.

I can do this all day guys.
Until some one with some legal knowledge comes in here and backs you two idiots up I'm going to just leave it at you and Shuemue are morons.

[Shuemue]

Here's the reality.

The burden of proof is on you.

Sue them. Represent someone who was hacked.

Return with a judgement.