MPD is the New MPG

[Syfinosis]

You may read the full article at the following address:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article. ... art=luxury

For decades, miles per gallon — mpg in its familiar shorthand — has been the only way for consumers to understand how much gasoline is going into their tank, and what it really costs. But mpg isn't cutting it any more.

Like leagues, fathoms and pecks, mpg has become a relic, a unit of measure that has lost its meaning. It's a quaint reminder of the days when a gallon of high-test cost a buck or less, and Jimmy Carter donned his fuzzy cardigan and kindly asked everyone to crank down the thermostat and conserve energy.

It's time for new rules, and new math: Miles Per Dollar, or mpd.

The formula is simple. Take the old mpg, but divide it by the price of fuel. Unlike the vague mpg, mpd is a remorseless measuring stick, its pointy end aimed directly at your wallet. When gas was cheaper than the dirt it sprang from, 20 miles per gallon seemed pretty solid. Even when gas reached a dollar a gallon, you were still getting 20 mpd, traveling 20 miles on a buck.

The problem is that, as a whole, the nation's cars and trucks aren't getting any better fuel economy than they were 20 years ago. With the price of a gallon of gas soaring to $3 and beyond, think again about that 20 mile-per-gallon car. Its mpd rating has fallen to less than seven.

This goes to ask when the hell are we gonna actually get alternitive fuel methods and implement them?? and when I say implement i mean b4 the end of 2008....

Will people suddenly realize that "hey wtf i am not spending 10 bucks for 1 gallon of gas!"

Perhaps when it happens i suppose >.>

[archibaldcrane]

This goes to ask when the hell are we gonna actually get alternitive fuel methods and implement them?? and when I say implement i mean b4 the end of 2008....

They are already here in 2008, but they won't save you much money. The most popular alternative fuel, ethanol, is nearly the same price as gasoline, and gets less MPG than standard unleaded.

[Syfinosis]

Oh i am aware of all the crap they TRY and do to make alternative fuel methods I.E. Hybrids, and ethonol. But i wanna see more of stuff they are in r&d w/ like air powered cars, hydrogen, fuel cell, Vegitable oil, trash and waste of all sorts....

Also ethonal in some places is way too limited in availability. I'd convert my car to 100% if it were more available.

I want Oil COMPLETLY out of the picture, we rely wayyy to heavily on that to make it last long enough. But of course we spend too much time killing one another over shit like "oops i pissed in your wheaties!" instead of advancing the betterment of mankind.

call me idiodic or noble, w/e thats just the way i am... a better tommorow

[archibaldcrane]

Hi.

[Kaylia]

Hi.

Biodiesel done from sugar is great, but the one that come from corn is barely better than what we use atm (pollution come from production instead of combustion itself).

If deforestation, and monoculture farming techniques were used to grow biofuel crops, biodiesel is predicted to become a serious threat to the environment. These problems could be exacerbated as biodiesel becomes more popular unless stringent laws are introduced and enforced to control biodiesel production. Non-food energy crops and lipid rich algaes with vastly greater oil yields may also replace low-yield annual food crops such as soybeans, skirting the deforestation risk associated with widespread uptake of biodiesel.

Hydrogen made from water is by far the best alternative for the environment and one of the most accessible. Too bad production is still an issue sorta.

[archibaldcrane]

critique of biodiesel

Wonderful, but the OP asked for a non-oil based alternative energy source that was cheaper and currently available. Voila.

Also, cite your quotes, are they talking about deforestation in america? And the corn vs. sugar debate is generally in regards to ethanol, not biodiesel.

[Blarg]

Flintstone power cars are the wave of the future.

[levish]

Flintstone power cars are the wave of the future.

/nod

plus full electric, only obstacles are battery capacity and fast charging

If EEstor actually has a working product both are taken care of if the us starts implementing gas station style battery "fill up" stations.

1-2 more years to start seeing more efficient cars and probably 10-15 to see mass produced full electrics with new technology regardless of it being EEstor's or the Nanowire thing.

They are comming, between Chinas newfound consumption and the introduction of super affordable new cars to emerging markets like India gas / oil prices are going no-where but up until the world switches to something else and I'm betting on full EV's

[SephYuyX]

They have alternatives for gas/diesel/hybrid/etc cars, but the Gov wont let vehicle/engine manufacturers produce them, because the Gov would lose a huge amout of profit if people stopped buying gas.

[Doofus]

Flintstone power cars are the wave of the future.

/nod

plus full electric, only obstacles are battery capacity and fast charging

If EEstor actually has a working product both are taken care of if the us starts implementing gas station style battery "fill up" stations.

1-2 more years to start seeing more efficient cars and probably 10-15 to see mass produced full electrics with new technology regardless of it being EEstor's or the Nanowire thing.

They are comming, between Chinas newfound consumption and the introduction of super affordable new cars to emerging markets like India gas / oil prices are going no-where but up until the world switches to something else and I'm betting on full EV's

I'm not gonna claim to be an expert... but with electric cars, doesn't that just mean you burn the fossil fuels making the electricity instead of in the car? since a lot of our energy comes from coal and what not, i'm sure its less pollution but don't assume its all perfect and such.

[Feielle]

I'm not gonna claim to be an expert... but with electric cars, doesn't that just mean you burn the fossil fuels making the electricity instead of in the car? since a lot of our energy comes from coal and what not, i'm sure its less pollution but don't assume its all perfect and such.

Correct. In the most recent X-Prize challenge to build a 100mpg production-ready automobile, there are actually conversion tables which relate the environmental cost of every type of alternative fuel vehicle to that of Gasoline. Electric vehicles have about 1/2 the carbon footprint of a standard gasoline car. Unless you can be certain that your power is only coming from the sun, wind, or hydroelectric dams, you're polluting too.

The problem with this nonsense is weight, not fuel. In 1909, the Ford Model T was capable of getting 21 mpg, and could run on ethanol. Do you need heated seats, power windows, seven-inches of sound and weather insulation? Sure, its comfortable, but take any car and strip it to is essentials and you'll have a much more fuel-efficient mode of transport.

[octopus]

I'm not gonna claim to be an expert... but with electric cars, doesn't that just mean you burn the fossil fuels making the electricity instead of in the car? since a lot of our energy comes from coal and what not, i'm sure its less pollution but don't assume its all perfect and such.

If the US doesn't get scared of nuclear power plants this would be less of an issue...

[bebeci]

They have alternatives for gas/diesel/hybrid/etc cars, but the Gov wont let vehicle/engine manufacturers produce them, because the Gov would lose a huge amout of profit if people stopped buying gas.

Quoted for truth.

[Doofus]

I'm not gonna claim to be an expert... but with electric cars, doesn't that just mean you burn the fossil fuels making the electricity instead of in the car? since a lot of our energy comes from coal and what not, i'm sure its less pollution but don't assume its all perfect and such.

Correct. In the most recent X-Prize challenge to build a 100mpg production-ready automobile, there are actually conversion tables which relate the environmental cost of every type of alternative fuel vehicle to that of Gasoline. Electric vehicles have about 1/2 the carbon footprint of a standard gasoline car. Unless you can be certain that your power is only coming from the sun, wind, or hydroelectric dams, you're polluting too.

The problem with this nonsense is weight, not fuel. In 1909, the Ford Model T was capable of getting 21 mpg, and could run on ethanol. Do you need heated seats, power windows, seven-inches of sound and weather insulation? Sure, its comfortable, but take any car and strip it to is essentials and you'll have a much more fuel-efficient mode of transport.

Should we all stop eating beef too >.>? Since cattle is one of the worlds largest producers of methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
If this were a perfect world then people could take your suggestions to heart, but it isn't and i like my heater/ac in my car and a nice ribeye, sorry.

Did you know that in the oil sand fields in canada, there is 5x the amount of oil that is in the entire middle east?(to the guy that said we were running out, we aren't anytime soon)

Canada is now the largest single supplier of oil and refined products to the United States.

We also get a lot from alaska, texas, gulf of mexico, the misconception that we get 99.999999999% of our oil from the middle east makes me laugh sometimes.

I'm not gonna claim to be an expert... but with electric cars, doesn't that just mean you burn the fossil fuels making the electricity instead of in the car? since a lot of our energy comes from coal and what not, i'm sure its less pollution but don't assume its all perfect and such.

If the US doesn't get scared of nuclear power plants this would be less of an issue...

I live between 2 nuclear plants and a hydroelectric dam, i'm good on that front.
Nuclear power is so efficient theres not really even any comparison to other sources.

[sunb1ind]

There's a lot of countries way ahead of us. This is not a debate of how can we get off of gasoline. I think everyone knows in the back of their mind it can be done. Mike Gravel gives the simple answer to the end of fossil fuels, which we probably won't see done in our lifetime.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=TpCC-GrAwWs

I think he starts on the topic at about 3min into the video.

edit: I forgot how bad he schools these poor college students lol The video was supposed to be an alt. debate from Feb 1, but couldn't get the shit recorded on TiVo /sigh