New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

[LD]

Odds are Davoi, Beadeaux, and Oztroja will much a lot like B.Markets, S.Sandy, and W.Waters, which are obviously attackable, but I seriously doubt are claimable. That works out fine, frankly, since intel and offensive ops will be more readily available with an area that can never be claimed.

It's highly likely that we wont have to lose anything when they finally add the cities, not to mention the fact that the beastmen would have to be doing incredibly well already for them to even have Siege Turrets.

[ringthree]

Too many players don't give a shit about Campaign (and that number is going to increase over time) to keep all the areas defended at all times. It's not that exciting. The NPCs are there for a reason. They do not need a fix so please, stop bitching about it or SE will "fix" it.

Do a search of Jugner Forest at any time of the day... It's not that they don't care about defending all of the areas, it's that Jugner is pretty unbalanced when it comes to attacks, so everyone stays there. The warp is close and attacks happen all the time. Convenience wins out over all.

People that say "Too many players don't give a shit about X" really mean "I don't give a shit about X." There are definitely adjustments that can be made, but there are people now that exclusively XP in Campaign and do Campaign a whole lot.

[Lordwafik]

I couldn't get a sense of scale for that Seige Machine. It'd be very intimidating if my character barely stood taller than the front wheel. If it's the same size as a simple warmachine, then I would be sorely disappointed (It's basically a re-skin of a warmachine with a few fancy add-ons). It looks neat, but if it's gonna spawn enemies, it better be like a fucking Trojan Horse.

Well by the looks of it ,it looks like a warmachine planted ontop of a cart, so if you can imagine the size of the warmachine that comes along in Jugner campaign, and imagine it on a cart, it's probably not that much bigger, but it's still pretty big.

[Almalexia]

Wing-level AN items for 500,000AN: Siege Tanks for Bastok.

[Gwynplaine]

Sounds interesting. This is moving more towards how I was hoping Campaign would be. Like a FFXI: Real Time Strategy MMO. What we have now seems like the foundation they will add to to make it more complex.

The only part of Campaign I dislike so far is the national policy voting, and I wish they would let us know how access to Ops become available. Right now I just dump all my Ops onto my 17SCH to bypass the dune levels. One last thing I'd hope for is an increase in max temp items a zone can hold or something. Getting to use fanatics, body, and mana boost is cool but they're nearly almost out in outdoor zones. Although maybe it's because players dislike supply delivery to those larger zones.

Edit: I have been wondering for a while what some of the, seemingly pointless, nation stats are for. Such as weapons development/production, so I guess this is it.

[Priran]

I couldn't get a sense of scale for that Seige Machine. It'd be very intimidating if my character barely stood taller than the front wheel. If it's the same size as a simple warmachine, then I would be sorely disappointed (It's basically a re-skin of a warmachine with a few fancy add-ons). It looks neat, but if it's gonna spawn enemies, it better be like a fucking Trojan Horse.

My impression of the scale:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7158/yeabigqr5.jpg

[Max™]

GC Rocks, it's my Jugner. Why? You start near the spot where the mobs spawn. They HAVE to take a couple of paths through the tunnels (at least usually, sometimes I've seen groups appear at the Fortifications behind Gate 2/1 without having seen them go by, weird behaviour sometimes) so you can get them into bottlenecks. There's spots to pull mobs to the side to beat em up by yourself, and yes... soloing a mob gives a lot more exp than hitting 5 or 6 in a group of 40 people before they die instantly. No that doesn't make it cool to be soloing something for 15 minutes when the rest of the wave died already.

NPC's don't need to be nerfed, NPC's with WIDESCAN need to be nerfed.

NPC's linking with players needs to be adjusted, as does the fact that an NPC can do 4k damage in a single shot to a mob, and you can cast Dia and tank til you or the mob dies.

Generals rushing off across the map to decimate everything needs to be fixed. I stopped going to Rolanberry entirely, nothing worse than seeing Striking Bull dash off at superflee speed/teleporting to go destroy everything. I hate that galka, and generally when he shows, I leave.

NPC's should be scaled to the amount of players there. Not sure how hard it would be to implement, but if theres 40 players at a Fort with Tags on, odds are you won't need 6 groups of NPC deathsquads too. Have some of them go to zones with 3 or 4 players with Tags on.

How to fix Besieged? Campaign NPC's would pwn Besieged I bet, and make groups of 50-100 people able to fight back against lvl 8's. Generals are wtfawesome til they get 30 mobs or mobs with oneshot anything attacks on them.

[LD]

My impression of the scale:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7158/yeabigqr5.jpg

Yea, that looks about right. The Elvaan being a bit taller than the back wheel matches my concept of it being around the size of a hume male. I can't be sure, but I doubt it'd be any smaller than that.

I really want to know what the other 3 tanks will look like, I read from the Orc article that they fashioned their tanks to look like the floating ones the kindred have.

[rath]

I wonder how the belfry will work. Can someone "hit it" and maybe everyone from that nation will get a campaign message even if they are out of the zone, or will it just call more NPCs to a losing battle. Also, how high our tech will have to be. Bastok is at 8-9 stars atm.

If it just calls NPCs, I expect people to just let them get destroyed. The AoE healing devices will be the new gathering point I suspect as well. Either way, this looks like something they had intended all along, and just couldn't finish it by release date.

[ACEJester]

My impression of the scale:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7158/yeabigqr5.jpg

Yea, that looks about right. The Elvaan being a bit taller than the back wheel matches my concept of it being around the size of a hume male. I can't be sure, but I doubt it'd be any smaller than that.

I really want to know what the other 3 tanks will look like, I read from the Orc article that they fashioned their tanks to look like the floating ones the kindred have.

I agree. I imagine about the size of Dynamis City win-bosses. Large but realistic.

[BRP]

First off, let me just say this update is splendid. I'm also happy about the fact we are already getting update details. I did not expect them for a week or two. I do hope the belfry also raise people. I also hoping this will make people gather around them. Since I'm late to the party, I guess I should join the derail.

The only reason to do Besieged is for IS. At least that's the only reason I do it for.

I'll stick to xp, fuck spending 40 minutes in that clusterfuck only to walk away with 1500IS.

It's easy to solo 1500 exp in 40 minutes. It's IMPOSSIBlE to solo 1500 IS in 40 minutes. 1500 IS is 15,000 exp under normal conditions. This is comparable to exp parties even.

Concerning Besieged: I think there are two types of changes that could be made: Obvious and Unlikely, though I guess SE going back to change something like Besieged makes it all unlikely.

Obvious: Adding drop pools to the Beastmen Leaders(and making their bonus 100% in Besieged while they remain defeated). Nerfing Instant-Death/Doom on NPCs and Nerfing some Beastmen Bosses(and some 2hrs). SE has shown the ability to change the method of Campaign's exp/an gain with ease, they should be able to do the same to Besieged's exp/is gain... increasing the maximum reward for 60+ and lowering for 30-. Change "Besieged:" into "Assault:"(and let them work during Besieged, instanced Campaign Ops, and Campaign Battle). Finally, Auto-booting "Away" or unactive(for 20 minutes?) players to Aht Urhgan Whitegate.

Unlikely: Extend Besieged to Wajaom and Bhaflau. Have Beastmen attack the semi-useless Watchtowers and allow players to slow down Beastmen on their way to the capital(and once they do reach the capital, players are awarded and instant warped into Al Zahbi). Players under Besieged would be unable to attack or be attacked by non-Besieged monsters. When under the effects of "Besieged" 12% movement speed(same type a Sprint, stacking with other gear) and the ability to spend 25-50 IS to be warped to a watchtower. Add quests/tasks which allow powerhouse NPCs to gain in on the fight like the ones we see in quests(Mishhar and his crew[lulz]/Ghatsad) or missions(Raillefal/Karababa/Naji). Give a way to weaken Beastmen so they can be taken down by a party of 6 with not too much effort, probably related to the first thing.



Now, Campaign is pretty well built, but it doesn't really uses all of its stuff.

Personally, I think the only problem with NPCs are that sometimes there are just too many. There should never be more than one group of soldiers deployed at once. Whatever is making them do that, have it instead increase the stats or the number of that one group. One more thing about NPCs, though I don't know if it's much of a problem, is that fact they should be able to grab some hate. Even if it's 1/3 of the rate of players, some jobs perform much better with a (temporary) tank(s). I guess something else needs to be said to: Let them stay around Fortifications. Or if they must charge forward, have the Allied Tag NPC make /says about where the battle is currently located. Another thing they could do is only have inactive General or Freelances(with green names) standing around while the area is not participating in Campaign Battle and have them summon their soldiers only when Campaign Battle begins.

Beastmen who fail to capture an area grow stronger in numbers/general strength/rate of strategy increase in only that area(well, not the strategy increase). The growth is similar to Besieged's(increase exp/an caps?), making an area loss almost inevitable over 2 months without a lot of focus on Strategy.

For variety, it would be nice if some areas(especially in Fort Karugo-Narugo's many rooms) had battles in more than one location. Have the Allied Tag NPC warp players to the location(and a NPC who is always there to warp them back) for free and have Generals/Freelancers instant warp to the location which is being attacked. They could even go one step further and add variety to the objectives, like finding/protecting coffers to gain/lose extra funds or planting a bomb(which could have the same effect as the Sabotage Op).

[Xno Kappa]

Some of these new elements better be epic or else its just gonna turn into the same mindless repetitive shit in 2-3 weeks after its implemented.

[Lucavi]

Some of these new elements better be epic or else its just gonna turn into the same mindless repetitive shit in 2-3 weeks after its implemented.

When has the opposite ever rang true with SE? I think limbus is just about the only thing that at least took a few months to get boring, and that's probably due to a combination of Omega having guided missles and frikkin laserbeams (never get tired of those), and of the pathetic droprate of Homam body keeping you interested just long enough to obtain it.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Yes we know it has no drops, why did we do it? Fun. Sure its great to get that claim, and get that uber piece of gear, but sometimes its just fun to fight mobs for the hell of it. I wish we could fight stuff like cerb, khim, tiamat etc when we wanted (even for no drops) just for the fight.

1) The "fun" factor wears off after killing it 1-2 times with no reward.
2) You want to fight those mobs when you want go do Nyzul Isle or Assaults.

1) you mean like the fun factor wearing off after you see niddy claimed to a ls other then yourself 38 out of the last 39 times? I still want shit from hnms but Ill take a fun fight against hydra over camping the aery to see another claimed niddy anyday...
2) Been there, done that, 2 discs to 100. You kill the "real" khimara in 45 seconds with 6 people then ill agree with you. thats like saying go practice for absolute virtue by fighting an aern.

[spooky]

This thread needs renaming to how big is your Seige Machine.

[Kaylia]

Available to both the Allied Forces of Altana as well as the Beastman Confederate, the belfry will become available to armies attacking regions not under their influence once their technological means have reached a predetermined level.
Since they house a "war bell" capable of calling forth reinforcements, it is imperative that players not only protect the belfries of the Allied Forces tooth and nail, but also demolish those of the Beastman Confederate as quickly as possible.

So, leave beastman bell alone to get more point, but make sure your is destroyed to stop those annoying npc?

[Kayos]

Yes we know it has no drops, why did we do it? Fun. Sure its great to get that claim, and get that uber piece of gear, but sometimes its just fun to fight mobs for the hell of it. I wish we could fight stuff like cerb, khim, tiamat etc when we wanted (even for no drops) just for the fight.

1) The "fun" factor wears off after killing it 1-2 times with no reward.
2) You want to fight those mobs when you want go do Nyzul Isle or Assaults.

1) you mean like the fun factor wearing off after you see niddy claimed to a ls other then yourself 38 out of the last 39 times? I still want shit from hnms but Ill take a fun fight against hydra over camping the aery to see another claimed niddy anyday...
2) Been there, done that, 2 discs to 100. You kill the "real" khimara in 45 seconds with 6 people then ill agree with you. thats like saying go practice for absolute virtue by fighting an aern.

At least Nidhogg drops something worthwhile. And you missing claim 38 out of 39 times sounds like a you issue. Saying we want more useless HNM because you either can't claim or don't try to claim is pretty stupid imo. As far as your second point. The "real" Khimaira is a fucking joke anyway. A mob that can be held indefinitely with 2-5 people doesnt constitute any sort of challenge imo. Once again and let me stresss this: The only people who box themselves in as far as HNM design and implementation is Square Enix. You could easily create an HNM that not only was fun, challenging, but also didnt have retarded pop conditions and everyone could enjoy a good fight. But you keep hoping for shit and I guess you won't be dissapointed when SE doesn't deliver.

[Lordender]

A mob that can be held indefinitely with 2-5 people doesnt constitute any sort of challenge imo. Once again and let me stresss this: The only people who box themselves in as far as HNM design and implementation is Square Enix. You could easily create an HNM that not only was fun, challenging, but also didnt have retarded pop conditions and everyone could enjoy a good fight. But you keep hoping for shit and I guess you won't be dissapointed when SE doesn't deliver.

This is why SE sucks at creating modern day HNM. I havent any idea why SE makes these mobs so easy you can hold it with 3-4 people for hours. I want to see HNM's pwn people in the fucking face for trying to hold them. SE says the concept of HNM is making "Scary mobs" appear in the game world, yeah very fucking scary when a holding party can pwn it in the face for hours at a time.

[Kaisha]

Hope this means the beastmen will have the strength to actually take over a nation now, rather than sitting at 0 morale all year long.

Btw, is there anything in the dats that show they can't attack our nations as it stands aside from the fact that the playerbase won't let it happen? I recall SE making a subtle update within the first month for bug-fixes. It also mentioned something along the lines of 'the gates to the MH will now stay open during battle'.......

[Rocl]

I don't really understand your last paragraph, but the Beastmen can attack the Allied Nations. On some servers (those who lost Sarutabaruta, Ronfaure or Gustaberg), the Beastmen successfully launched attacks on the cities, however I'm pretty sure they managed to repel them there.