New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

[Kaisha]

You pretty much answered it. Didn't know there have been city attacks on some servers, so I was wondering if that was even implemented into the expansion.

Anyways, I'm starting to like the developer's stance towards AoE objects (the mantlet's AoE healing functionality, that SCH's totem things) and indirect combat (or from what I'm perceiving that mamooth of a turret would do) rather than the typical throw mobs at them' approach.

[Septimus]

You know, I can't wait until the next time they adjust beastmen versus allied NPCs and everyone who is bitching about Allied NPCs start whining about them being too weak.

Seriously, if you like Campaign without NPCs, go defend Crawler's Nest a few dozen times. Run on out into the group of mobs and see how great it is!

[Max™]

Thats why I like GC, theres usually NPC's, but they stay waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy down deep in there, and it takes the mobs a while to get to them just from the Arbiter, nevermind intercepting them near the zone.

[Guitarman]

You know, I can't wait until the next time they adjust beastmen versus allied NPCs and everyone who is bitching about Allied NPCs start whining about them being too weak.

Seriously, if you like Campaign without NPCs, go defend Crawler's Nest a few dozen times. Run on out into the group of mobs and see how great it is!

Amen. People run out to meet the mobs, anxious for a fight, but once Softstep comes charging down the line, everyone kind of runs way the hell away. Without these "overpowered" NPC we would have nothing under our control. Sorry but 1k+ ore lob spam is -not- fun.

[Yuri-G]

Not to mention you can spam cheap buffs on the non-casting NPCs for easy points while waiting for the beastmen to arrive

[TeancumMemsochet]

Not to mention you can spam cheap buffs on the non-casting NPCs for easy points while waiting for the beastmen to arrive

I love SCH in Campaign for that very reason. I get so many PTs for Ascension+DS+Cure 4 on a cluster of NPCs killing a NM.

I cure for somewhere around 15k-20k total doing that.

[Kaylia]

You know, I can't wait until the next time they adjust beastmen versus allied NPCs and everyone who is bitching about Allied NPCs start whining about them being too weak.

Seriously, if you like Campaign without NPCs, go defend Crawler's Nest a few dozen times. Run on out into the group of mobs and see how great it is!

As long they make npc retarded, I will complain. Too weak, too strong is the same thing. too week is going to be particularly annoying if they continue waking up adds

[Shassira]

You know, I can't wait until the next time they adjust beastmen versus allied NPCs and everyone who is bitching about Allied NPCs start whining about them being too weak.

Seriously, if you like Campaign without NPCs, go defend Crawler's Nest a few dozen times. Run on out into the group of mobs and see how great it is!

I saw a single bastokan galka from whatever number their division is in Rolanberry solo Softstep. And it was solo, because 4 NPCs (and not Invincible Shield, just normal ones) ran to catch the mobs far from the post. A friend and i ran with them. One soloed Softstep while the other two tanked all the rest of the mobs (i think one died ganged by Soft and comrades). Either way, we were MNK/WHM and NIN/WAR, i cured an NPC once with DS, we pulled one by one till they were all dead. The beastmen had no chance, once Softstep died... and i repeat in case it wasn't cleared, Softstep was soloed by a single normal npc galka with no support whatsoever.

Sure you think the NPCs aren't too strong? I do think they are, but i don't care if they are strong or not my personal problem is that there's almost no way to lose an area at all. Only dungeons get lost now and that's mainly a combination of stupid NPCs and the areas being completely alone for days. And even then, sometimes they aren't even lost at all.

In the current state of things the beastmen have absolutely no chance of taking any area at all, not even close. Invincible Shield takes like 1 minute to kill any Quadav NM, Elivira takes probably less. The Mithra NPCs suck a bit more though >>;

Either way, there's also no reason to actualy wanting to defend the forts. So let's say they improve beastmen (hope not, i like the mobs how they are) or limit the number of NPCs in the area, or lower their HP or better yet, NPCs are just sent to areas where there's less than X players in them participating. Even if they do that and even if there's a chance to lose an area, there's still no point in defending it or recovering. What's the deal, so we can get more stupid Ops? Whatever, if that's the only thing coming from winning or losing a campaign area, there really is no point to it. (Disclaimer: I do have fun with it, i just think it needs a reason to be apart from getting exp)

[Toth]

In the current state of things the beastmen have absolutely no chance of taking any area at all, not even close. Invincible Shield takes like 1 minute to kill any Quadav NM, Elivira takes probably less. The Mithra NPCs suck a bit more though >>;

Either way, there's also no reason to actualy wanting to defend the forts. So let's say they improve beastmen (hope not, i like the mobs how they are) or limit the number of NPCs in the area, or lower their HP or better yet, NPCs are just sent to areas where there's less than X players in them participating. Even if they do that and even if there's a chance to lose an area, there's still no point in defending it or recovering. What's the deal, so we can get more stupid Ops? Whatever, if that's the only thing coming from winning or losing a campaign area, there really is no point to it. (Disclaimer: I do have fun with it, i just think it needs a reason to be apart from getting exp)

Makes me wonder if this is going all according to SE's plan. The early stages of the war (ie now) are going nice and smooth with NPC dominance and able protection for each fortification. Then...BAM! The beastmen suddenly grow stronger and start conquering areas (next update - see introduction of powerful Seige engines). It would make sense in regards to an actual war and give this expansion a real-time feel to it.

[Tomino]

Makes me wonder if this is going all according to SE's plan. The early stages of the war (ie now) are going nice and smooth with NPC dominance and able protection for each fortification. Then...BAM! The beastmen suddenly grow stronger and start conquering areas

I feel the same : right now the battles spread over Vanadiel but it's clear the 3 nations can handle the beastmen invasions quite well. but we still have no Demons attacking except for Shadowfang.
I hope there will be a "plot" feeling in the next updates, adding the Demons Army to /cmap as they reveal themselves, with their armies from Xarcabard randomly joining the beastmen groups pushing the defenders to their knees. I'd expect Demons to be much more powerful then standard campaign mobs, giving the 3 nations a reason to ally.

[BRP]

I hope we get more details tomorrow. Usually they tend to string these together by 3, with weekends being the exception.

[Toth]

There really is no need atm for the 3 nations to be allied in this war. Each side easily reflects the invasions. Something has to happen to make this a more unified war and I think this update and the next will do just that.

If Campaign battles change to become harder, I wonder if these easier battles we have now will still be accessible later. Maybe the /cmap will change to show 3 types of battles:

Skirmishes (what we have now)
Battles (after the next update)
Invasions (future updates?)

[millionsknives]

One thing to substantially help besieged is to give exp to people who die when it ends, let them get it when theyre raised after. Its insane this happens in campaign where you spend maybe 10-15 mins yet not in besieged where you can have just wasted an hour of your life xD

i like the idea of letting us fight them in the woodlands but i think its too late for such a major change D:

[Thitaubian Seraph]

...i like the idea of letting us fight them in the woodlands but i think its too late for such a major change D:

You are aware that it is already possible to see the campaign mobs in the woodlands/mire before they reach the balrahn defense line?
You can even target them.
I have never tried actually fighting them (intercepting them as the game tells us to), so I wouldn't know if there is any reward for doing so.

[BerenTebogo]

...i like the idea of letting us fight them in the woodlands but i think its too late for such a major change D:

You are aware that it is already possible to see the campaign mobs in the woodlands/mire before they reach the balrahn defense line?
You can even target them.
I have never tried actually fighting them (intercepting them as the game tells us to), so I wouldn't know if there is any reward for doing so.

You don't get any bonus or reward for it, which is why people don't do it

[LD]

You also lose exp when you die to them out there, so that's even more of a turn off.

[Not Kuno]

You also lose exp when you die to them out there, so that's even more of a turn off.

Have you fought them before? They don't really attack back.. like they de-agro fast and just continue walking along. I've attacked on before and it didn't really do a whole lot. I'm just curious if they zone in with the damage already or if it only registered if they are dead.

[LD]

No, I was just saying that you lose exp when you die outside of the city, since you would need the protection of the besieged icon to avoid that.

[Lordwafik]

You also lose exp when you die to them out there, so that's even more of a turn off.

Have you fought them before? They don't really attack back.. like they de-agro fast and just continue walking along. I've attacked on before and it didn't really do a whole lot. I'm just curious if they zone in with the damage already or if it only registered if they are dead.

Before it got patched, they used to walk really slowly to town, and act like they do inside Al Zahbi. Afterwards, when people kept sucessfully stopping them outside Al Zahbi thus preventing a besieged, they patched it to become how it is now.

It was a nice theory, if there were roleplay servers I'm sure many people would have stopped the monsters outside of town to protect their beloved city, but in a game that frowns apon roleplay and thrives on "Kill shit get reward" - it wasn't such a nice idea to have besieged intercepted.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

You also lose exp when you die to them out there, so that's even more of a turn off.

Have you fought them before? They don't really attack back.. like they de-agro fast and just continue walking along. I've attacked on before and it didn't really do a whole lot. I'm just curious if they zone in with the damage already or if it only registered if they are dead.

Before it got patched, they used to walk really slowly to town, and act like they do inside Al Zahbi. Afterwards, when people kept sucessfully stopping them outside Al Zahbi thus preventing a besieged, they patched it to become how it is now.

It was a nice theory, if there were roleplay servers I'm sure many people would have stopped the monsters outside of town to protect their beloved city, but in a game that frowns apon roleplay and thrives on "Kill shit get reward" - it wasn't such a nice idea to have besieged intercepted.

I dont even remember this getting patched, I know the first 2-3 beseiged that happened there were 500+ people standing outside waiting for them and destroyed them before they could get in, but when people realized there is no reward from it I thought they just stopped doing it.