Berkeley CA protesting Marines?

[Kael]

From: http://www.ktvu.com/news/15240235/detail.html

BERKELEY, Calif. -- Republicans in Congress are playing hardball with Berkeley after the liberal city council issued a declaration urging the U.S. Marines to move its recruitment office out of the East Bay college town last week. Now conservative lawmakers are fighting back with legislation that could eliminate millions of dollars in funding for UC Berkeley and a variety of city programs.

The controversy erupted last week after the City Council passed an item condemning the Marines' downtown recruiting center on Shattuck Avenue. The item told the U.S. Marines that if its recruiters choose to stay in their rented downtown space "they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests."

A small band of GOP lawmakers is fighting back with legislation that could eliminate millions of dollars for UC Berkeley, public safety programs, a new ferry service, and the Alice Waters foundation, an organization that provides lunches to public schools.

It was quiet Wednesday evening in front of the Marine Corps recruiting station on Shattuck in Berkeley, but the battle between city officials and the federal government is escalating.

An anti-war protest vehicle remains parked in front of the recruiting station, and now some republicans are retaliating by trying to slash $2.3 million in federal funds from several Berkeley programs after the city council voted last week to ask the Marines to leave.

Wednesday night, Berkeley's Mayor Tom Bates backed down from those earlier calls for the Marines to hit the road.

"We went too far when we passed [the resolution]. We said things we probably shouldn't have said," explains the mayor.

Pictures of the vocal protests that took place in front of the Marine Corps recruiting office from last week's demonstration infuriated some members of Congress.

Republican South Carolina Senator Jim Demint was among those angered. "Patriotic American taxpayers won't sit quietly while Berkeley insults our brave marines and tries to run them out of town, and the city doesn't deserve a single dime of special pet project handouts," said Senator Demint in a statement.

Senator Demint has joined forces with five other Republican senators and an Orange County representative to introduce companion bills called the Semper Fi Act of 2008.

One cut amounting to almost a quarter million dollars would impact the Chez Paniesse Foundation, which helps provide school meals to thousands of Berkeley public school students. Not surprisingly, Berkeley residents are shocked that the proposed legislation would go to such lengths.

"If you want to give a slap on the hand of a community because of their opinion and viewpoint, that in itself is questionable. But to attack our children to do that is absolutely unconscionable," said Berkeley School District spokesman Mark Coplan.

On the streets of Berkeley Wednesday night, many people said Berkeley city leaders went too far in their anti-war efforts.

"I'm against war, but I think if we didn't have the Marines we'd probably be all be speaking German," said Ralph Kratz of Richmond.

"I think Berkeley has a right to their opinion and I think the Marine Corps does too. I don't think federal funding has anything to do with whether there's recruitment or not," said San Leandro resident Ed Shapiro.

Mayor Tom Bates says he hopes the city can clarify it's position: "I'm not saying we're anti-Marines or anti armed forces. We're just trying to set the record straight that we're against this war. We think it's illegal. We think it's immoral. We think it's wrong and we think we've been lied to. We want this war to be over."

The showdown between Berkeley's city council and its critics comes to a head on Tuesday when the city council will vote again whether or not to urge the Marines to leave. Some council members appear to be softening their positions.

A pro-military group called Move America Forward says it will hold an all-day protest in front of City Hall the try to get Berkeley to back down.

I like how they are 're-thinking' their position when the feds start saying they'll recall federal funds. lol

Seriously, if you hate the war. Protest against the administration and/or the political party. Don't protest our soldiers. You're just being an asshole then.

[Venture]

Rather dumb of some supposedly intelligent people to make it personal on the services as people, instead of on the government that controlled them. Lessons not learned from Vietnam, here. 40 years later, and people in the military are still taught by their peers to distrust if not outright hate civilians after the treatment their predecessors endured back then. Riles up the general public as well, after some newfound love for the military after 9/11, even if the road between civilian and military is still one-way when it comes to tolerance.

[Saphirea]

As a former Marine ... all I can say is I hope these people don't ever get another penny in federal aid.

You guys are spot on though in your descriptions, if you hate the war protest that, not the Marines that are doing their job.

[Saphirea]

Code Pink is also the same group that used to protest outside of Walter Reed medical hospital every Friday in their being against the war and taking it out against the Soldiers and Marines instead of where it needed to be directed at.

Friday's a big bus comes and take them that are well enough to leave for a bit for a dinner that isn't hospital food and a little bit of shopping around the area. Just a little bit of time outside of a hospital.

[Effluo]

Yet another reason I despise those tree-hugging-bunny-fxukers who live in CA.

These Marines are simply trying to do their job, recruit new Marines. Why hate them for doing that, and tell them they are unwelcome? I do love the lawmakers who are putting the town of Berkley to the coals for such idiotic BS...

I can't stand people who have such an ignorant lop-sided view of the military...

[Mizango]

As a former Marine ... all I can say is I hope these people don't ever get another penny in federal aid.

You guys are spot on though in your descriptions, if you hate the war protest that, not the Marines that are doing their job.

People tend to lose sight of that fact. Aiming your frustration at people doing their job as opposed to the reckless administration that is spearheading this "War on Everything" is cowardly. Bush and his heartless Goons wont cave to the pressure, so you turn your angst and discontent towards the people forced into action? That is the epitome of the word failure.

It also funny when you see how fast they are seemingly backtracking and stumbling over themselves now that talk of their funding being nuked is under consideration. I am all for you know, standing up for injustices and the wrongs that a particular group may biased to, but at least have the common sense to aim it in the right direction.

[Fhqwghads]

You know I'm torn on this one. On one hand I agree with them, not just being against the war, but also against people allowing themselves to be part of this stupid war. I was in a heated debate on these forums months ago over a post where I stated this, I suppose I'll get in another one again. I still don't comprehend why people would be willing to put themselves in the line of fire while that moron Bush is in office virtually herding our troops into his fuck-up to die or be horribly maimed.

Then, on the other hand people have the right to do what they want to. If they want to throw their lives away (in my opinion) then that's their business.

Personally I think every person who has recently signed up for military service is basically sending a message to Dubya that his war is justified. Yeah, yeah "support our troops", blah blah. I support the ones who were in the military prior to this disaster Bush created, and maybe sympathetic to those who signed up while it wasn't blatantly obvious Bush was a lying sack of shit. But the ones who signed up recently? Nope. I don't support them. Not one bit. I think they've made an incredibly bad choice in joining the military and supporting Bush by association.

With that in mind, I can see where Berkley is coming from. They had what they believe were good intentions, but it's not up to others to restrict people from making their own decisions with regards to the armed forces. Agree or disagree, it's still up to the individual to decide what they are going to do.

[Saphirea]

My brother just got done with bootcamp. I don't think he's made a bad decision with his life.

Again protesting the war is one thing, sitting outside a hospital... causing even more troubles. Defacing the Vietnam Memorial, protesting a Marine doing his job at the recruiting center... Code Pinko Commies ... it's a bit much...

[Kael]

For a lot of the people that joined the Armed Forces it's not throwing away their lives. They genuinely want to make a difference. Also it's a means for a better future for a lot of people who can't normally afford college.

Hell I bet there are a lot of soldiers that think Bush is a freaking retard, but that doesn't stop them from wanting to make a difference in peoples lives including their own.

[Intense]

Lawmakers are completely out of line with this. Voicing of opinions or protests should NOT be met with legislation like this.

[Venture]

Lawmakers are completely out of line with this. Voicing of opinions or protests should NOT be met with legislation like this.

They won't go through with it, and both sides know it, but it's the proverbial backhanded slap to Berkley to get them to back off the Marines.

[Kael]

Buts its okay for a City Council to issue a declaration to Marines to GTFO?

They have every right to have a recruitment office anywhere they damn well please in the US.

[Correction]

Both sides are picking the wrong targets.

Retarded step #1: City Council passes resolution saying 'We protest the war in the Middle East; Marines GTFO."
Retarded step #2: Lawmakers from Orange County and South Carolina say 'Ha no more medical research funding or funds for student loans and public works projects for the general population of Berkely'

Everybody's a fucking idiot in this story.

[fantasticdan]

For the people posting without reading the article, they aren't protesting marines on the front lines, or the marines in general, they're protesting a recruitment office.

I don't think it's so much as "We hate the marines for doing their job." as it is "We don't want the people of our town recruited to fight/die in a pointless/illegal/immoral war." Not that I agree with the protest, I don't care at all really, but it's really fucked up to construe it as hating on the troops.

For a lot of the people that joined the Armed Forces it's not throwing away their lives. They genuinely want to make a difference. Also it's a means for a better future for a lot of people who can't normally afford college.

Well maybe we should educate these people to the fact that they can attend community college for free or virtually nothing (and that virtually nothing they don't have to pay until they graduate) if they live in a low income family or are living on their own, rather than recruiting them into the military?

[Saphirea]

They're lucky they don't allow the Marines to retaliate... now THAT would be hilarious... make waterboarding look like a vacation to Hawaii

[Kael]

Well maybe we should educate these people to the fact that they can attend community college for free or virtually nothing (and that virtually nothing they don't have to pay until they graduate) if they live in a low income family or are living on their own, rather than recruiting them into the military?

Because getting a degree from a community college is the same as an established college right? Also a lot of them might not even qualify for the low income benefits to begin with. There are a lot of families that are stuck in the middle. They earn enough to not be low income but not enough to afford a quality education. (I'm not saying community college is bad. But when someone looks at your record and sees. California Community College or CSU which do you think will have more of an impact?)

[Xiona]

Buts its okay for a City Council to issue a declaration to Marines to GTFO?

They have every right to have a recruitment office anywhere they damn well please in the US.

not really, its same thing as Jehovahs witness' walking around recruiting more members. quite a few communities stop that pretty fast.

i dont like how people umbrella innocence under "theyre just doing their job". if you do something thats wrong, regardless of being ordered youre still just as at fault. if a coorporation tells you that you cant hire black people, and you adhere to it in fear of losing a job youre just as big of a bigot as them.

basically patriotism now a days has shifted meanings from, having a ideal thats worth supporting to sheepish ignorance.

cutting funding for a campus of students who are practicing the same techniques which keep the country in a happy medium is just plain stupid. one of the principle reasons our country works is the extremes who fight for power, the coin always ends up falling in the middle.

the only purpose a recruiter servers is to trick those on the fence into falling into uncle sams lap. i cant even begin to count how many people are lured in by the promise of something only to have it removed or never added to final paperwork. if you really need to resort to car salesman tactics to maintain an army then maybe we should look at the underlying reasons noone wants to join instead of all this surface squabbling.

the government has covered its ass quite well though, playing the instigator "ooo you hear that marines??? the american people said your mommas fat" "oooohhhh american people you gonna take that from a bunch of mindless drone???!!!"

FIGHTFIGHTFIGHTFIGHT

[Intense]

Well maybe we should educate these people to the fact that they can attend community college for free or virtually nothing (and that virtually nothing they don't have to pay until they graduate) if they live in a low income family or are living on their own, rather than recruiting them into the military?

Because getting a degree from a community college is the same as an established college right? Also a lot of them might not even qualify for the low income benefits to begin with. There are a lot of families that are stuck in the middle. They earn enough to not be low income but not enough to afford a quality education. (I'm not saying community college is bad. But when someone looks at your record and sees. California Community College or CSU which do you think will have more of an impact?)

What about those who get their AA at at community then transfer to a university? Its still significantly cheaper.

[fantasticdan]

Because getting a degree from a community college is the same as an established college right? Also a lot of them might not even qualify for the low income benefits to begin with. There are a lot of families that are stuck in the middle. They earn enough to not be low income but not enough to afford a quality education. (I'm not saying community college is bad. But when someone looks at your record and sees. California Community College or CSU which do you think will have more of an impact?)

Things aren't so black and white. They can go to a community college for their first two years, work hard and try to get a scholarship. Even if they can't get a scholarship, a state university (not community college) can be incredibly cheap, or even free in some cases. The solution to not qualifying for low income brackets due to your parents, is to move out on your own. But really, if you're living with your parents and not paying rent, you can afford to pay for community/state college yourself by, it's really not that much. And remember, they don't have to start paying this money back until they graduate (or drop out) if they took out a student loan(s), and even than it's in low monthly payments.

[Turambar]

not really, its same thing as Jehovahs witness' walking around recruiting more members. quite a few communities stop that pretty fast.

Actually, it's the exact opposite. If you're too dumb to see why, I feel very sorry for you and your future children who will inherit your mental retardation.