Berkeley CA protesting Marines?

[Saphirea]

Marines are the last you want to pick a fight with... we all think we're 10 feet tall and bulletproof as it is...

It's not being mindless to join the military btw. Most do it out of a sense of pride or to get a better education, or to open up job opportunities afterwards or for a plethora of other reasons. Or just be able to carry around a big ass machine gun and blow shit up. Who cares what their reasons are they do it, because deep down they do have a sense of caring for their country.

We could be like other countries; Greece and Turkey come to mind... want to goto college? Well guess what you're doing time in the military, if not then no education for you.

[Correction]

the only purpose a recruiter servers is to trick those on the fence into falling into uncle sams lap.

Except the same could be said of Earth First, ALF or PeTA, and I don't see Berkeley banning them from town. They're singling out the Marines because they wish to punish the Marines. It's a retarded move from the getgo and it's only going to result in pain for everybody. Meanwhile the legislators from S.Carolina and the O.C. use the issue to prop up support for their local causes at the expense of those 'haha silly liberals' in norcal, while neither the Martines nor the students/needy people of Berkeley get anything productive done.

This is political grandstanding at its worst and I do hope the council comes to its fucking senses.

[noblemountain]

as a former army ranger who joined before this war started, i can say that people in this country have a very skewed perception of the military. i joined the army to be able to afford to go to college (i was denied grants, loans, and lost my athletic scholorship with a knee injury). the army was the only way i was going to be able to afford to go to school. more than that though, i joined because i wanted to. my family died when i was very young and i was adopted by a family in the US. i'm half-german, half-mongolian. i was born in mongolia...my adopted family moved me here and i am thankful every day for that. i've been back to mongolia quite a few times to visit my grandmother and i really appreciate how amazing this country is. whether or not i disagree with bush is irrelevant. i fought along side some of the most amazing people i've ever met and some of the bravest men in this country. i stood up for MY country because i wanted to give back. i scored high enough on the ASFAB to do any job in the army, i chose infantry. i chose special forces. i loved my job...i never doubted my duty one time while a ranger. now i'm out and pursuing my fight career, i miss it. i miss my brothers and wish i was there to protect them. if you've never been in the military you won't understand what i'm saying, but there is no bigger bond than fighting beside friends. watching mutual friends die on the battlefield. say what you will about this war, i personally am not a fan myself, but the soldiers that are out there risking their lives for your right to disagree with it don't deserve your criticism.

[Nuketwig]

the only purpose a recruiter servers is to trick those on the fence into falling into uncle sams lap.

Except the same could be said of Earth First, ALF or PeTA, and I don't see Berkeley banning them from town. They're singling out the Marines because they wish to punish the Marines. It's a retarded move from the getgo and it's only going to result in pain for everybody. Meanwhile the legislators from S.Carolina and the O.C. use the issue to prop up support for their local causes at the expense of those 'haha silly liberals' in norcal, while neither the Martines nor the students/needy people of Berkeley get anything productive done.

This is political grandstanding at its worst and I do hope the council comes to its fucking senses.

Generally speaking your risk of getting shot or blown up is a lot lower with these groups, which is why high-pressure recruiting by the military bothers me a lot more than people who want to talk to me about the environment or why meat is bad.

[Norelco]

as a former army ranger who joined before this war started, i can say that people in this country have a very skewed perception of the military. i joined the army to be able to afford to go to college (i was denied grants, loans, and lost my athletic scholorship with a knee injury). the army was the only way i was going to be able to afford to go to school. more than that though, i joined because i wanted to. my family died when i was very young and i was adopted by a family in the US. i'm half-german, half-mongolian. i was born in mongolia...my adopted family moved me here and i am thankful every day for that. i've been back to mongolia quite a few times to visit my grandmother and i really appreciate how amazing this country is. whether or not i disagree with bush is irrelevant. i fought along side some of the most amazing people i've ever met and some of the bravest men in this country. i stood up for MY country because i wanted to give back. i scored high enough on the ASFAB to do any job in the army, i chose infantry. i chose special forces. i loved my job...i never doubted my duty one time while a ranger. now i'm out and pursuing my fight career, i miss it. i miss my brothers and wish i was there to protect them. if you've never been in the military you won't understand what i'm saying, but there is no bigger bond than fighting beside friends. watching mutual friends die on the battlefield. say what you will about this war, i personally am not a fan myself, but the soldiers that are out there risking their lives for your right to disagree with it don't deserve your criticism.

You're an amazing person. Thank you.

[sunb1ind]

as a former army ranger who joined before this war started, i can say that people in this country have a very skewed perception of the military. i joined the army to be able to afford to go to college (i was denied grants, loans, and lost my athletic scholorship with a knee injury). the army was the only way i was going to be able to afford to go to school. more than that though, i joined because i wanted to. my family died when i was very young and i was adopted by a family in the US. i'm half-german, half-mongolian. i was born in mongolia...my adopted family moved me here and i am thankful every day for that. i've been back to mongolia quite a few times to visit my grandmother and i really appreciate how amazing this country is. whether or not i disagree with bush is irrelevant. i fought along side some of the most amazing people i've ever met and some of the bravest men in this country. i stood up for MY country because i wanted to give back. i scored high enough on the ASFAB to do any job in the army, i chose infantry. i chose special forces. i loved my job...i never doubted my duty one time while a ranger. now i'm out and pursuing my fight career, i miss it. i miss my brothers and wish i was there to protect them. if you've never been in the military you won't understand what i'm saying, but there is no bigger bond than fighting beside friends. watching mutual friends die on the battlefield. say what you will about this war, i personally am not a fan myself, but the soldiers that are out there risking their lives for your right to disagree with it don't deserve your criticism.

Problem is that they're not risking their lives for our rights. I think everyone on here highly respects our soldiers, there's no reason to discuss that. But, not being a fan of the war is just not enough. Our soldiers aren't going over there and "fighting". Its a suicide mission, and the only winners are the war sponsors and big oil. I should be only preaching to the choir at this stage.

Brace yourselves for more brave soldiers fighting for our rights in Iran if people don't wake up. You can depend on Obama or Clinton to keep the fire going after Bush.

P.S. I may come off aggressive, but the reality is harsh on you when you have family serving 3rd terms over this mentality.

[Saphirea]

as a former army ranger who joined before this war started, i can say that people in this country have a very skewed perception of the military. i joined the army to be able to afford to go to college (i was denied grants, loans, and lost my athletic scholorship with a knee injury). the army was the only way i was going to be able to afford to go to school. more than that though, i joined because i wanted to. my family died when i was very young and i was adopted by a family in the US. i'm half-german, half-mongolian. i was born in mongolia...my adopted family moved me here and i am thankful every day for that. i've been back to mongolia quite a few times to visit my grandmother and i really appreciate how amazing this country is. whether or not i disagree with bush is irrelevant. i fought along side some of the most amazing people i've ever met and some of the bravest men in this country. i stood up for MY country because i wanted to give back. i scored high enough on the ASFAB to do any job in the army, i chose infantry. i chose special forces. i loved my job...i never doubted my duty one time while a ranger. now i'm out and pursuing my fight career, i miss it. i miss my brothers and wish i was there to protect them. if you've never been in the military you won't understand what i'm saying, but there is no bigger bond than fighting beside friends. watching mutual friends die on the battlefield. say what you will about this war, i personally am not a fan myself, but the soldiers that are out there risking their lives for your right to disagree with it don't deserve your criticism.

Thanks for sharing this rocking story. And thank you for your service.

[Fhqwghads]

the soldiers that are out there risking their lives for your right to disagree with it don't deserve your criticism.

Just an FYI, I was also in the military, so I have every right to criticise. Now, if things back then were as they are now, would I have joined? Hell no. Bush can find some other sucker to fight his stupid ass war. He's not protecting jack shit here. He's throwing lives away in my opinion. If there was some tangible threat to our country and not the lies this administration cooked up, I would fight without hesitation, but that's not the case.

[Correction]

Generally speaking your risk of getting shot or blown up is a lot lower with these groups, which is why high-pressure recruiting by the military bothers me a lot more than people who want to talk to me about the environment or why meat is bad.

The members of ALF and Earth First firebomb medical research buildings. The odds of getting arrested and tossed into ass-pounding prison are not zero with these 'eco-friendly' fringe groups. I would want my kids further away from PETA than the marines, and yet Berkeley wants the Marines out first? Give me a break.

[Senoska]

I agree with the people protesting but I don't. I think something needs to be done, and I agree this war is bullshit, but I don't agree with their methods they go about it. I think their line of thought goes something like this:

1: Bush and crew won't cave in
2: Recruiters get new members into the military and speak at schools and such to try to get kids to sign the paper
3: Taking away the influx of troops from their town = no deaths from their town on a clearly pointless war.

However, don't you think that taking away the student lunches and other support is only going to raise more outrage at what is going on? You can no longer express yourself with a constitutionally granted right of protest without having laws passed on your city to royally fuck you? That seems wrong to me imho.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm torn here too. Berkeley city officials see the Marines recruiting station as a service which exists to convince it's citizenry to fight and die in an immoral war. It's a legitimate reason to declare them unwelcome guests in the town.

It's also going to be an extremely unpopular move outside the ultra-liberal bubble that is Berkeley, CA. No matter how you try to get rid of a recruiting station, you are going to be labeled "anti-troops", which isn't the point. Perception becomes reality very quickly though.

The thing is, these recruiting stations can be fucked up. As many of you know my sister was in the Army for 5 years, including a year in Mosul, Iraq. She wasn't a great student in high school - she'd try hard but just really wasn't that smart so it was a struggle. She wanted to be a nurse but there was a 2-year waiting list for the nursing program at the local tech school, so she figured she'd take the path that others in my family have (Grandpa is a WWII vet, uncle was a career Navy officer) and join the military to get a medical education. She wanted to be a medic.

Oh man those recruiters were all about it. She was motivated, in great physical shape, and ready to sign on the dotted line. Medic? Sure! There's lots of medical jobs in the military! She drove to Milwaukee to go through a battery of written tests - took maybe 4-5 hours plus a bunch of paperwork. When she was finally done, they asked her to pick her job, based on her test scores. She was exhausted from the battery of tests and it was the last thing she had to do before she was officially "in the Army".

Truck Driver
Field Mechanic
Something else manual-labor-esque

She picked Field Mechanic - there were no options to do what she wanted. She drove home, crushed, and, well, signed up for 3 years of military service. She'd been duped.

Fortunately for my sister, well, she has my dad. And my dad doesn't take kindly to asshole recruiters telling his daughter what she wants to hear up until they have her alone and exhausted to push her into a decision she doesn't want. He also has a bit of leverage as a public high-school teacher. He marched into the recruiters office and made it extremely simple for the recruiter. Either his daughter, my sister, gets the medic career path that he said would be available for her, or he'd make sure that each of the 200 15-18 year old students he taught every year in his high school heard about how the U.S. Army recruiters will lie to your face to get you to sign on the dotted line. It wasn't a very hard decision for the recruiter, she got what he promised her.

This was all before 9/11/01. I can't imagine how hard they push to deceive current recruits.

Fuck military recruiters.

[Kael]

I agree with the people protesting but I don't. I think something needs to be done, and I agree this war is bullshit, but I don't agree with their methods they go about it. I think their line of thought goes something like this:

1: Bush and crew won't cave in
2: Recruiters get new members into the military and speak at schools and such to try to get kids to sign the paper
3: Taking away the influx of troops from their town = no deaths from their town on a clearly pointless war.

However, don't you think that taking away the student lunches and other support is only going to raise more outrage at what is going on? You can no longer express yourself with a constitutionally granted right of protest without having laws passed on your city to royally fuck you? That seems wrong to me imho.

Technically they are not stopping those programs, they're just threatened to stop further federal aid for those extra projects that the city has.

Basically telling them, "You don't need our help then do you?" The city could very well attempt to fund those programs themselves. But I can bet you that they'd rather have the free money over paying for it themselves.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I've noticed that when people tell horror stories about recruiters it's always Army recruiters. I have never heard a Marine recruiter horror story. I just had a friend join the Marines and his recruiter was a god send. (Not just in this thread but in real life as well.)

[Correction]

I've noticed that when people tell horror stories about recruiters it's always Army recruiters. (Not just in this thread but in real life as well.)

Citing anecdotal sources, I've heard the Army has the longest-standing rep of not recruiting America's best and brightest in general, which is why they send their recruiters to high schools while the Air Force/Navy/Marines hang out at college campuses.

[Intense]

Technically they are not stopping those programs, they're just threatened to stop further federal aid for those extra projects that the city has.

Basically telling them, "You don't need our help then do you?" The city could very well attempt to fund those programs themselves. But I can bet you that they'd rather have the free money over paying for it themselves.

Right.. ok, youre telling people what they already know.. Now what?

[noblemountain]

there's shitty recruiters in every branch. just a TON more people get recruited into the army than the other branches...so you obviously have more stories. my recruiter was awesome...argued with me about going infantry. lol

[Kael]

Technically they are not stopping those programs, they're just threatened to stop further federal aid for those extra projects that the city has.

Basically telling them, "You don't need our help then do you?" The city could very well attempt to fund those programs themselves. But I can bet you that they'd rather have the free money over paying for it themselves.

Right.. ok, youre telling people what they already know.. Now what?

It was a response to Senoskas post, I just forgot to quote. Fixed.

[Demosthenes11]

Berkeley needs to get the fuck out of people's business.
If people want to join the military, they should be able to join, no questions asked. This is what bothers me most about it. Lawmakers feel like they know better than everyone else, that they are somehow smarter and can make better decisions than the public. If the public wants to join the military, they better not be fucking impeded in doing so.

In short, fuck hippies, fuck big government, and fuck Berkeley...
Why am I transferring there -.-

[Rakiel]

I've noticed that when people tell horror stories about recruiters it's always Army recruiters. I have never heard a Marine recruiter horror story. I just had a friend join the Marines and his recruiter was a god send. (Not just in this thread but in real life as well.)

Joining the Army isn't something you can do with no research, though. A lot of kids feel trapped by, and just go along, with whatever the recruiters say, and you can't get sucked into that. I fucking DRILLED my recruiter about all of the jobs I was interested in, what the test scores were to get those jobs, and the actual duties performed in association with said jobs, before I signed the dotted line. My recruiter was hella tired of fielding all of my questions, but when I finally signed, I knew exactly what I was getting into...in June 2001.

Then 9/11 happened, and all my well-made plans sorta fell apart.

Anyway, joining the military is just like any other job, in the sense that you NEED to do your own research, and occasionally get a second opinion...and make sure to ask a FUCKLOAD of questions.

Moral of the story: Look before you leap.

P.S.: I deeply disagree with Berkeley's actions, and I believe the federal government has every right to withdraw any funding it sees necessary in retaliation for the not-so-polite removal of federal employees from township grounds.

[archibaldcrane]

P.S.: I deeply disagree with Berkeley's actions, and I believe the federal government has every right to withdraw any funding it sees necessary in retaliation for the not-so-polite removal of federal employees from township grounds.

The town isn't removing the recruiting office.