solid, somewhat low-man Omega and Ultima strats

[wintersquall]

my group is ready for ultima/omega, and we've lost some members recently. i haven't been running this limbus shell long (took over from a friend who left the game), but they've beaten omega before by SAM zerging only and haven't beaten ultima afaik because it's been approached like a normal mob.

I expect no more than 10 members to attend, possibly 8 or so. nin tanks we have, probably only one un-merited BLM though, possibly 2 with a couple/few rdms. a good mnk usually is with us, and a COR also for omega, but not ultima.

i know that success in these fights relies on limiting TP, so it'd be prob 1 nin/drk with melees rotating in for WS/TA etc with slow nuking... could groups who have had success in these fights post some of their ideas for sure-fire win?

edited b/c i said ultima twice, and HAI GUYZ I DON'T HAEV BLMS >.> help me out here lol

[Kainstryder]

Omega's pretty lol these days, you could basically just kite him and dot/nuke and send your mnk in to DD on 2 legs. Once he goes below 25% just kite/nuke him to death, it's pretty easy. When my shell farms him for chips, we always end up nearly killing him before we finish him off at the 5 min warning with just tier 1 nukes and the like. Probably 2 NIN/DRKs, WHM, MNK, RDM, 3 BLM would work.

I have no experience with a low man Ultima, but I know a while back some BLM did it with 8 people? I believe it was a manaburn, the link to the live journal's around the forums somewhere...

[tymora]

For Omega, will need around 2 BLMs to speedily handle the summons. Can probably do with 1 RDM and 1 BLM on that, but RDM is usually busy.

Won before with but things got a little ugly from pile pitch.
1 Tank 2 DD RDM BRD WHM, 3 BLM + 1 DD+ RDM should be able to win.

Recommend:
2 Tank 1 DD RDM BRD WHM, 2 BLM + 2 DD+ RDM
As long as BLM have MP to nuke the summons.

[BerenTebogo]

That Cerberus is brushed, polished, and ready to go dude, I'd run if I were you.

[wintersquall]

i'm likely to be lucky to be able to field 2 BLMs for either fight.

for omega, i get the DoT/kite and melee @ 2 legs thing (does he build resistance to gravity? and how often does he resist also). as for the pods am i right in assuming a RDM+BLM should be assigned solely to them AND can manage to kite/nuke them down?

for ultima... well, it looks like i'm pretty much screwed unless i recruit more BLMS?

[Tulun]

http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/limbus%21

Entry is here for 7 man Ultima, have to scroll down a bit. I hope your tank is very good NIN, RDM, BRD, 4x BLM was there set up.

Definitely a more fun way to do Limbus.

[Therin]

PLD/NIN
PLD/NIN
BRD
RDM
WHM

BLM/NIN
BLM/NIN
Any 2 DDs.

9 people. You can drop a BLM and a DD and do it with 7, but it'll take longer.

[Leeto]

Is nobody paying attention to the roster he has available?

[Furionstormrage]

First off, why won't that COR come to Ultima, but will for Omega?

Secondly, you didn't mention any WHMs or BRDs, so I assume that you don't have them.

Omega:

Try for 2 BLM/NINs for Omega. Have them DoT Omega and focus on nuking pods down ASAP, tossing out lighter nukes on Omega when a Pod isn't due. When a pod pops, have one Stun it so they don't start hitting the NINs, and then just nuke them down before they run out of shadows.
Have 2 NIN/DRKs trade hate back and forth, kiting or straight up, kiting is only marginally easier on Omega from my limited experience.
On 2 legs let your MNK do what he can for damage, meaning if you were kiting stop and let him melee. On 4 legs he could charge up Chi Blast I guess, extra damage can't hurt.
RDMs need to focus on keeping the NINs alive and supported, and the BLMs Refreshed, in that order.

That should work fine, Omega really isn't hard by any means.

Ultima, I can't help you with. Just did our first one ever this week and we had 18 for it, so although I'm certain we could do it with less, we haven't so I'd hate to give bad advice.

[Kaeko]

People don't have to follow the way we happened to do Omega and Ultima in the blog to low man these. I simply gave the setup we happened to use. There are many other low man setups that can work for you as long as you are extremely well-versed on the strengths and weaknesses of the bosses.

What is the exact job selection you have for all 8-10 members? We can help you more on developing a strategy and a setup that works best for you if you could post the exact choices we have to work with. Try doing what this poster asked when he wanted Omega help...

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21569

He gives the exact job selection for all of his members.

There are so many ways to do this successfully if you know what things to look out for. Put the selection here and I'm sure we can help you.

(Also, I really hope you have a BRD).

[wintersquall]

here's what i can 99% count on showing up - as usual, there might be a few people coming out of the woodwork to fight him but they're a bonus, and they'd prob be melee anyway.

my members' subjobs i'm not 100% on but i'm only listing ones i'm pretty sure of, and i know for a fact we will have ONE nin/drk (highlighted)

(me) RDM or SAM, /drk /thf /whm /blm /drg /nin /war
NIN, SAM or BLM, /war /thf /blm /whm - note this player just hit 75 blm and isn't merited
PLD, BRD, NIN, RNG, SMN, WHM, sj everything but drk i think
NIN, BLU, THF, /drk /war /idk but this is prob our nin/drk kiter
RDM, WHM or BRD - appropriate SJ, including drk for CS stun
PLD, NIN, SAM - /war /nin /thf /dnc but not drk i believe
MNK - /war /nin /dnc
COR, MNK or SAM, appropriate SJ (this guy is leaving LS but he has our omega chipset so he'll be there for that and not ultima)
DRG or SCH, appropriate SJ but NOT rdm i believe

that's about it, and yes, i'm really asking what to watch out for in particular as far as run killers go - and if my kiter goes down, then what >.> lol. i'll prob be RDM, but i don't have crimson legs.

omega fight is planned for sun 2/10, or tomorrow night. idk what to do about ultima yet. these are good players, but not uber players and have very little if any HNM experience, etc - i need to keep it as simple as possible.



edits for typing

[Thorny]

1. RDM or SAM, /drk /thf /whm /blm /drg /nin /war
2. NIN, SAM or BLM, /war /thf /blm /whm - note this player just hit 75 blm and isn't merited
3. PLD, BRD, NIN, RNG, SMN, WHM, sj everything but drk i think
4. NIN, BLU, THF, /drk /war /idk but this is prob our nin/drk kiter
5. RDM, WHM or BRD - appropriate SJ, including drk for CS stun
6. PLD, NIN, SAM - /war /nin /thf /dnc but not drk i believe
7. MNK - /war /nin /dnc
8. COR, MNK or SAM, appropriate SJ (this guy is leaving LS but he has our omega chipset so he'll be there for that and not ultima)
9. DRG or SCH, appropriate SJ but NOT rdm i believe

Tank Party:
1. RDM
2. BLM
8. COR
4. NIN/DRK
5. BRD
6. PLD/NIN or SAM/THF

Other Party
7. MNK
3. SMN
9. DRG


For Omega.. kiting isn't really necessary even with a small group until it starts doing colossal blow or whatever the throat stab move at <25% is called. Any decent NIN shouldn't be getting hit much if your BRD can stick elegy. Having player 6 on SAM/THF would add a lot of speed and make it smoother, but if you aren't confident in your NIN it might not be a bad idea to have them go pld. Around 1500 hp, arhats+1,and earth/terra's staff is more than enough that no amount of bad luck on their part can get them killed. If at all possible, have BRD give nin(and pld if that's the case) double march and sam double minuet seperately in addition to ballads. Having the BRD sub drk is not a terrible idea either, depending how quick your cor and rdm are with -nas. You didn't really give gear examples or say how good your players are, but your setup doesn't look very promising for Ultima and if the players are really bad you may have problems with Omega too. One AM2 from the blm and unresisted -3 from RDM should take out a gunpod regardless of how they're geared, but if they're too busy with the NIN and gunpods start wrecking people you'll wipe quickly.

[Secksi]

here's what i can 99% count on showing up - as usual, there might be a few people coming out of the woodwork to fight him but they're a bonus, and they'd prob be melee anyway.

my members' subjobs i'm not 100% on but i'm only listing ones i'm pretty sure of, and i know for a fact we will have ONE nin/drk (highlighted)

(me) RDM or SAM, /drk /thf /whm /blm /drg /nin /war
NIN, SAM or BLM, /war /thf /blm /whm - note this player just hit 75 blm and isn't merited
PLD, BRD, NIN, RNG, SMN, WHM, sj everything but drk i think
NIN, BLU, THF, /drk /war /idk but this is prob our nin/drk kiter
RDM, WHM or BRD - appropriate SJ, including drk for CS stun
PLD, NIN, SAM - /war /nin /thf /dnc but not drk i believe
MNK - /war /nin /dnc
COR, MNK or SAM, appropriate SJ (this guy is leaving LS but he has our omega chipset so he'll be there for that and not ultima)
DRG or SCH, appropriate SJ but NOT rdm i believe

that's about it, and yes, i'm really asking what to watch out for in particular as far as run killers go - and if my kiter goes down, then what >.> lol. i'll prob be RDM, but i don't have crimson legs.

omega fight is planned for sun 2/10, or tomorrow night. idk what to do about ultima yet. these are good players, but not uber players and have very little if any HNM experience, etc - i need to keep it as simple as possible.



edits for typing

From top to bottom:

Rdm/Drk
Blm/???
Brd/Blm
Nin/Drk
Rdm/Drk
Pld/Nin
Mnk/Nin
Sam/War
Sch/Whm

Party setups

Tank

Nin/Drk
Pld/Nin
Rdm/Drk
Brd/Blm
Sch/Whm
Sam/War

Other

Blm/???
Mnk/Nin
Rdm/Drk

This is assuming these people are well geared and know how to play their jobs.

Tanks fight it straight up from 100 > 25, Sch should be enough main heal, I got hit like 2-3 times last Omega on Nin/Drk, our Galka Whm is always bored I think. We use Brd/Blm for the guranteed 8 mins of elegy.

Mnk/Nin pull the Pods with Chi blast when they pop, Blm & Rdm take it down.

Blm and Rdms nuke Omega on 4 legs, and Sam can take it down nicely on 2 Legs with the Mnk joining in after the pod is dead. Throw out random stuns throughout the whole thing.

Take a breather at 26-30% to get ready for the final stage, when you're rested you have 2 options.

1. Nin and Pld kite in a circle while everyone else takes it down nice and slow. This is really only good for farming pods I believe. Blm and Rdm nuke it down, Sam and Mnk melee/ws etc. Thing about doing it this way is you have the chance of Pods popping and owning you if you're too focused on taking down Omega, but it isn't that bad really. Now you also don't have a Whm with the setup I suggested so if people kite wrong or pull hate at a bad time Laser Shower can fuck you up.

2. Have a Rdm CS Stun, and everyone else just go absolutely nuts. 2hr songs, CS Nuke, Manafont, Hundred Fists, etc. You should be able to easily take it down from 25% to 0 this way.

As for Ultima, got me. I've only done about 6 of them, and they were a long time ago, lowest # was 13 people.

[Kaeko]

My personal suggestion for setup:

RDM/NIN (#1)
NIN/DRK (#4)
BRD/WHM (#3)
RDM/DRK (#5)
BLM/WHM (#2)
SCH/WHM (#9)

MNK/NIN (#7)
SAM/THF (#6)
SAM/THF (#8)

I have to admit this will take some coordination and good understanding of a lot of things.

Despite being Melee Heavy, I'd still suggest using a TP-limitation strategy.

Supplies:
- SAMx2 and MNK need Icarus Wing
- SAMx2 need Opo Opo Necklace and maybe 2 stacks Sleeping pots
- Everyone needs Reraise

**************************************

Tanking

RDM/NIN and NIN/DRK combo is pretty good. Omega cannot double attack, so as long as Elegy and Slow II are on, you're in good shape. TP moves can be really bad, but we'll get into that later. Make sure you're well versed in which moves generate the best Enmity for your situation.

1 thing to watch for is "Rear Lasers", which is a TP move used when the person with hate is to its back and it is on 4 legs. This move will petrify you and you have no WHM access. Other than this, its attacks are slow and incredibly predictable. Your main concern will almost STRICTLY be TP moves. I think you'll see how easy its normal attack pattern is when you see it. It does hit like a truck so watch it if you mess up. Use stuns for that.

Bard

The BRD can sub /WHM ok. Everything lands on Omega without issue with the exception of I think Requiem. You will likely never see an Elegy resist if reasonably geared. BRD will have to switch parties back and forth to song the Melee in my opinion. I'll go over that a bit later too.

Gun Pods

Read up on how gun pods are spawned first. This can be found about mid-page down in this page.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10676&start=180

Basically it uses Pod Ejection every other time it moves from 4 to 2 legs. Have your MNK pull this off ASAP by making him toss Pebbles (bring Pebbles!). Then BLM and SCH use their strongest nukes. Make sure the SCH casts later since he'll only have Tier III while the BLM gets IV or AMII. These pods easily hit for 500 a shot and can 1 shot your backline with double attack. This must be handled very quickly and methodically. RDM can nuke as well if there is some free time, although I would not rely on it.

If you were to wipe to 1 thing, it would probably be this. MAKE SURE your backline understands exactly how they spawn, how to handle it, and how much damage they do. They have exactly 1700 HP. Go on a favorable day like Iceday if you want extra comfort.

Omega Forms and Form Switching

For the first 75% HP, Omega will switch back and forth between 2-legs (Magic Resistant) and 4-legs (Physical Resistant). My suggestion may be a bit awkward, but I suggest you change your tanking stance between these modes. On 2-legs, use 1 tank from the front, 1 from the back (standard SATA style); on 4-legs, have both tanks tank from the front (to avoid Rear Lasers). Again, make sure you know how the switches work because it ties in with Gun Pods.

Learn the TP moves from both forms here - http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Central_Apollyon. The 2 most dangerous are "Pile Pitch" (4 legs only) and Rear Lasers (4 legs only) due to Hate Reset and Petrification.

Damage Dealing - SAM/THF

DO NOT RANDOMLY MELEE OMEGA. I cannot stress this enough. It counter attacks like crazy and you do not have that much healing as it is. A lot of groups will go ahead and melee this, but you're trying to low man it with a not so optimal setup and I really don't think you can afford to.

While on 4-legs (Physical Resistant Form), have SAMs store TP using Sleeping Pots and Opo-Opo necklace. Save Meditate. You should be able to pull off 100TP or very very close to 100 TP in the 2 minutes it is on 4 legs.

While on 2-legs (Magic Resistant Form), move the tanks into a front/back position and have both SAMs coordinate SATA WS. Skill chaining is not necessarily since magic damage will suck. Make sure you coordinate so that it doesn't flip flop mid attack or something. Once SAM gets 1 WS off, Meditate off and repeat when SA and TA are back up. You have 2 minutes to have 2 SAMs get off 2 SATA's each. That gives you a total of 4 SATA WSs every 4 minutes roughly (every 2 leg phase).

Note that SAMs never melee'd randomly. If your could not get 100TP off the Opo-Opo and sleeping pots, then I think it's fine to get a couple of hits it, but that's the only reason. Do not randomly hit it, as it is counter-productive. Remember to move your tanks back to front/front when it goes 4 legs to avoid Rear Lasers.

Damage Dealing - MNK

For the first 75% HP, the MNK basically has the #1 duty of pulling the gun pods off the tanks when it pops. This will happen between 4 legs to 2 legs switches. After the pod dies, have the MNK begin using Boost x12 Chi Blast (Bring MND Gear!). This type of attack takes 3 minutes to fully charge and assuming you start this when the pod dies, you'll shoot it off about mid-way through its next 4-legged phase, giving you plenty of time to get ready for another pod.

Damage Dealing - BLM

Omega is not particularly resistant when it's on 4 legs so the fact your BLM is new is fine. Honestly, you could probably get away with the BLM just layering some DoTs, but free nuking is fine if he has MP. His #1 priority is gun pods; his #2 should be stunning away any mistakes your tanks make. If he has the MP and the time after this, then yes, throw some nukes out.

SCH I wouldn't recommend nuking except for maybe Helices. I have a feeling these will suck in practice though due to an incredibly shitty damage formula based highly on INT. SCH should probably main heal or give some weather for the BLM during 4 legs phase.

DoT Layering

You can easily layer Dia II (2 legs) or Bio II (4 legs), Poison II, and 3 Elemental DoTs. Omega does have a bit of regen, so I'll just assume that these things negate Regen, but you should definitely layer them! It's free damage. Have the BLM and RDM focus on these duties.

Damage Number Crunching

The fight is 30 minutes and Omega has 26,000 HP. Your goal is to get it to 25% with at least 4 minutes left. Nice and slowly. That's about 20,000 HP you have to be able to do in about 25 minutes. Given the damage sources you have that can be done in a methodical fashion, you have 4 SATA WSs every 4 minutes, 1 x12 Boosted chi blast every 4 minutes, and some free nuking BLM attacks. I'll be really conservative here and just say each of these 5 guaranteed attacks does 750 damage (this is REALLY conservative if your BRD is switching in for SAM minuets just prior to 2 legs phase). That gives you a very methodical way of doing about 3,700 damage every 4 minutes. This gives you about 19,000 damage in 20 minutes. Add in some DoTs and BLM nukes and you'll hit your 20,000 HP mark in about 20-22 minutes.

Sample...

SAMs gain TP with Sleeping Pots
BRD switches to Melee PT for Minuets
Omega goes 2 legs - Pod Ejection
MNK pulls Pod with Pebble
BLM and SCH kill Pod
MNK begins Boosting for Chi Blast
SAMs use SATA WS (2 shots)
SAMs use Meditate
SAMs reuse SATA when ready
SAMs use SATA WS (2 shots)
SAMs back up and use Opo Opo Sleeping Pots
Omega goes 4 legs
MNK shoots off Chi Blast about midway through phase
BLM randomly nukes
Omega goes 2 legs... (rinse and repeat, pod every other time)

Final 25% - Gank

Final phase is 50% magic resistant and 50% physical resistant. A pod will pop upon going into the final phase. MAKE SURE YOU HANDLE THIS BEFORE GOING TO GANK. Do not start the gank until after this pod dies. Also, keep Omega above 25% until you are all prepared with the gank (Melees have been song'd, mages have MP).

You will ideally be looking to get a kill in about 90 seconds - that's 6,000 HP in 90 seconds with 50% damage reduction in place. SAMs and MNK should have Soul Voice'd Minuet. Tanks should stand still. Do not kite, it just causes problems since you're using mainly melee damage. You do not want to miss because your WSs go out of range.

SAMs should have 4 WSs each ready - 3 from Meikyou Sushi and 1 from an Icarus Wing. MNK has Hundred Fists. There is no counter in this mode so you're good to go. BLM should go into Manafont strongest nuke spam. 6,000 HP should be a non-issue if you get all these attacks off - 8 SAM WSs (10 if you save your Med), 1 2hr'd MNK, 2hr'ing BLM. If you get really close and things aren't looking good, NIN Mijin does well as well (for some reason, the 50% reduction will not apply to this and you'll get a good 600+ Mijin).

RDM should start 2hr Stun (initiating the gank) after the pod dies. Remember, start AFTER the pod dies. The 2 WSs in this phase are nasty, but none of them are true killers (there is a breath move and a throat stab move). You should be fine as long as your gank is coordinated. You have more than enough damage.

Recap of Main Issues

Tanks:
- Front/Front tanking on 4 legs, Front/Back tanking on 2 legs for SATA
- Omega cannot double attack so you can predict attacks
- If elegy or slow II is not on, scream for it - para is great too

BRD:
- Keep elegy on at all times no matter what
- Switch to give melee buffs during the 4 legs phase so the melee are ready for 2 legs DD

MNK:
- Bring MND gear for Chi Blast
- Bring Pebbles for pulling pods
- Bring an Icarus Wing for Gank

SAM:
- Bring Opo Opo and Sleeping pots for TP storage
- Bring an Icarus Wing for Gank
- Make sure to semi-coordinate the SATAs so it doesn't turn half way

BLM and SCH:
- Focus on the pods first!

Best of luck. This is not an ideal setup, but as others have said, Omega is no longer really considered that hard a mob. Make sure everyone knows exactly what duties they have and their order of importance. Come prepared!

(also this involves you personally knowing how to RDM tank, which may or may not be an intuitive thing. If you have good experience in this it'll be a huge plus since RDM tanks are so versatile).

Also for Ultima - bring a lot of ringers. This is coming from the group that did the "7 man Ultima". Only people that want to prove a point go that low - Ultima is dangerous and unpredictable and I would bring AT LEAST 12. You can win with that low, but if it uses the wrong set of TP moves at the wrong time (shields), you are dead. No shame in using ringers for something that took you a month to farm chips for.

[Lordwafik]

You have huge typing skills

[DanielRemora]

Bah, I just typed almost word for word that same thing. You beat me Bastard.

(I'd go with what Kaeko said =))

[wintersquall]

wow, HUGE typing skills =D


thanks a ton for taking the time to write that all up... if you don't mind i'm going to repost that on my LS forums (only like one of my members comes here and has an account), and have them read through that carefully. i'm also gonna postpone the fight until thursday if some people don't get a chance to see it before tonight.

i would normally ask clarification questions here... but i can't think of a single thing you missed o.O

[Kaeko]

Glad I could help. Also, if there is something a member is not comfortable with, you should try to tweek things - just make sure you have a good reason for tweeking or adjusting. Writing retardedly long blog posts while trying to keep people interested for a year helps write things like this 8)

[maddadon]

its already been posted- but Kanikan's live journal = win.

[shieldsofwindurst]

I don't see much in this thread about what to do with Ultima, so I thought I'd throw some thoughts out there. Most people that have chimed in are about on par-you need a good group (probably 12+) to have a good chance at Ultima, and unless your 8 people are super elite, I wouldn't count on much luck if you go that smallman. The reason for this is simple-when you get to 20% and Ultima goes supercrazy with his AOE ExplodeYourHead (Citadel Buster) move, you basically need to zerg him as fast as possible with whatever type of dmg he isn't currently immune to. Otherwise, he's just going to pick off your people every minute or so, and obviously the fewer you have, the quicker he'll succeed in this. However, some key tips on Ultima that I've picked up over the several runs I've done:

1. He does Dissipation every 20%. That means at exactly 80%, 60%, 40%, and 20% hps, you can expect a dissipation the Moment his hp bar clicks down to that %. (It may be 79/59/39/19, but I'm pretty sure about 80/60/40/20 based on my last run). When this happens, you have 2 choices. First, stun it. This is HARD. You need a drk, blm, or rdm/drk that is GOOD at stunning and has very little lag. If you want to try this, here are a few keys:
a. Do not key on the log. If you wait to cast stun based on when the log says he's casting dissipation, 99% of the time you'll be too late. It's a near-instant cast.
b. Get him down to 81%, stop all dmg, and then have a blm nuke with tier 4s to bring him down to 80%. This way you can relatively predict when dissipation is going to go off, vs having a heart attack while waiting for melee to click that % down.
c. Start casting stun the moment you see the "lights" on omega. By that I mean the animation effect where he readies a TP move. This will show up right before the log shows up, so you should have a decent shot at doing this.
d. If you bring a blm or drk to stun this, consider having them /rdm for the extra boost in fastcast. Every little bit helps, seriously.

Alternately, if you chose not to stun dissipation, get him down to 81/61/41/21%, then move everyone but your main tank (and possibly sub tank) out of range of dissipation (up the stairs should be enough). Have a blm trigger it with nukes, stun him right after dissipation goes off, and use that period to frantically recast buffs on your tanks.

2. If/when you get in trouble in the first 80%, stop doing ALL dmg, and just have your tanks sit there and recast shadows. This means Ultima gets no TP, and since he sucks at meleeing, your mages can rest, and people can rebuff if needed. After 80%, obviously this isn't going to work because you're going to lose a person every minute or so.

3. Do your very best to have a balance of phys & magic dmg. That last 20% is the killer, and if he puts up phys screen and all you have is melee for dmg, you're done. our last ultima he put up like 4 phys screens in a row, so our 3 blms had to do the majority of the final 20%. Luckily if you have good blms that isn't too bad, but like you said, you may have 1 unmeritted blm, which would make this very tough.

4. Ultima's other TP moves suck, but nothing along the lines of citadel buster. If you can't handle his regular TP moves for the first 80% consider actively recruiting more/better people before wasting chips again.

5. Dot the hell out of him for the last 20%. Some dmg is better than none, and the closer you get him to dead the better your chance is when he finally drops phys screen and your kclub drk can open up (or whatever your best dder is).

6. Know who's targetted by citadel buster by announcing with an /assist macro, and whoever the lucky person is, MUST sit under ultima and just DD as best they can until they get killed while the rest of the alliance scatters. More Ultima losses are caused by a jackass getting targetted, running from CB, and MPKing the rest of the alliance.

7. Whatever dmg screen is not up during the last 20%, have those DDers go all out. Zerg 2hrs all around. Basically your only chance, even with 18, because 1 moron can kill half or more of your alliance by running from citadel buster (as mentioned above).

8. Use your tanks wisely. Each tank should be worth at least 1 citadel buster that isn't focused on the DDs, giving them more time to bring it down. Each pld should be worth 2 (die once, RR, get hate again via invinc). The more times your dds aren't getting killed, the more time they have to finish him off.

That's really about it. Like everyone else says, you really shouldn't try Ultima with 8, but if you're gonna, hopefully the above should be of some help. Our group is experienced enough that we can probably small-man the first 80% without much trouble, but unless you have some way of ensuring Ultima attacks the same person during the last 20% and just hymnusing them or something, he's going to go through your tanks & dds Very quickly. Our last run we brought like 15 or so and we just couldn't finish him for like 5 CBs or so simply because he kept putting up phys screen and our 3 blms weren't enough to finish it (though we were close). But by being smart about CB and watching the screens, the moment he put up magic screen, our melees were alive & ready to go to town.