guild furnishing elements

[kargath]

Warning: long-winded, anecdotal and facepalming.

I like to craft -- therefore, I enjoy pain. Because I enjoy pain, I want to post my thoughts about guild furnishings here, even after spending 2 weeks reading through swathes of vaginal abrasiveness and skeetaru facepalms. If I'm gonna get utterly destroyed, verbally castrated, and chased away with torches and pitchforks, well, it may as well be by the folks here who've garnered a great deal of respect from me.

That being said, I'd like to share an idea I have about guild furnishings that I've not seen/heard/read about anywhere yet. Odds are, however, this is nothing new to you folks here.

I got my golden fleece a few years back, and had no clue why it gave ice - of all things. Wouldn't dark or earth make more sense for a tanner? Then I looked at what all the other guild furnishings gave. Light for GS, wind for cooking, dark for bonecraft, etc...very bizarre; some made logical sense (the anvil) while others didn't.

I took a 2 year break, came back with a fresh mind, and was examining a renkei chart to brush up on things...and then it hit me. Everything is elementally connected.

There is now no question in my mind why my golden fleece give me ice, and my cordon bleu set gives wind.

In the world of VD, what does ice do? Induration. What does that mean? "To harden, or lithify". Hm. Then the thought of tanners throughout the ages hardening their leathers in the sun came to mind. So, naturally, the rest followed:

tanning = ice = induration, ergo, tanning = induration (harden)
smithing = fire = liquefecation, ergo, smithing = liquefecation (smelting)
cooking = wind = detonation, ergo, cooking = detonation (no microwaves in VD, haha)
goldsmithing = light = transfixion, ergo, golsmithing = transfixion (oooooh...shinnnnney...)
fishing = water = reverberation, ergo, fishing = reverberation (sublimely genius)
woodworking = earth = scission, ergo, woodworking = scission (to divide, cut or *carve*)
clothcraft = earth = scission, ergo, clothcraft = scission (to divide, *cut* or carve)
alchemy = lightning = impaction, ergo, alchemy = impaction (smash unrelated things together!)
bonecraft = dark = compression, ergo, bonecraft = compression (I'm sure a dentist would get this one)

Further inferrence is left as an excersize to the reader.

I posit that crafting has nothing to do with crystal vs day vs swing-a-dead-cat-over-your-head-on-a-full-moon in a blue shirt with an olive pit in your navel, but that ther IS something going on with the elements that permeates the ENTIRE game.

I absolutely refuse to believe that crafting is all 100% random (insert facepalm here). However, I will submit that at least 99% of it is. Looking at the lunar calendar, it's no coincidence that skillchains work the way they do and the calendar is formatted the way it is.

The nerdlords at squeenix put in a great deal of perversed elegance into the calendar, the skillchains and the elemental connectivity between them. They have un undebatable connection that leads me to believe in that 1%, and if you don't believe me, I'll put my lunar calendar back up online so you can see for yourself.

Thoughts?

I now prostrate myself to you, oh, gentle community, and await my smashing like a behemoth hide on a lightsday.

Kargath,
~ Fenrir

[Bitchs]

bitchs.. are u retarded?

Craft is like the Lottery.. all fking random..Its made for you too loose more then you will gain for most of the part.

[Zarath]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/images/brawl.gif

My only contribution to this argument is this gif, that is all.

[BerenTebogo]

I think instead of the BG banner, we should just have a giant banner that says

this is the search function, please type your shit here first

and then have a mammoth sized input bar, so people will no longer have any excuses.

[kargath]

ruh roh..

I gots myself a bad feeling this HAS been hashed before..

oy.

[kargath]

OK, before someone breaks an icepick off in my forehead, let me say this:

I just don't see how it can ALL boil down to luck. A synth with only a primary craft tier0? Sure, I'll buy 1/48. But what about the synths with multiple tier0/tier1 subcrafts?

Sha'ir Crackows....Sha'ir Gages...Chasubles...gimme a break (har), hq one of these and you chalk it up to luck? No. I believe not. Something LET it happen or you'd see your first HQ in maybe a 1,000 synths - IF YOU'RE LUCKY.

Call me retarded (an open invitation of course), but I simply can NOT see how someone can just get "lucky" with these vile synths. Period. Something has to LET you hq these items. Be it a nosepicker at at SE behind a switchboard with "green" or "red" buttons, or something in the algorithm.

[aurik]

OK, before someone breaks an icepick off in my forehead, let me say this:

I just don't see how it can ALL boil down to luck. A synth with only a primary craft tier0? Sure, I'll buy 1/48. But what about the synths with multiple tier0/tier1 subcrafts?

Sha'ir Crackows....Sha'ir Gages...Chasubles...gimme a break (har), hq one of these and you chalk it up to luck? No. I believe not. Something LET it happen or you'd see your first HQ in maybe a 1,000 synths - IF YOU'RE LUCKY.

Call me retarded (an open invitation of course), but I simply can NOT see how someone can just get "lucky" with these vile synths. Period. Something has to LET you hq these items. Be it a nosepicker at at SE behind a switchboard with "green" or "red" buttons, or something in the algorithm.

Overall HQ tier = minimum( HQ tier of of each involved craft )
Overall success rate = product( success rate of each involved craft )

That means for a capped crafter, a synth that is 100, 60, 60 is not harder to hq than a synth that is 100, 1, 1 for required crafts.

The only thing that lets you hq these items is perseverance and an intimate relationship with the random number god.

[tymora]

Overwhelming earth energy in my MH and I don't see any tier 0 HQ or tier 2 HQ above average.
Out of the 3 breaks I had for togi, I lost 2 lumber in 2 synths and 1 in the last.

Still, I will like to believe in some elemental connection. To that effect, I am keeping track of about a number of variables in the game. I won't say which but most people can probably get half of them.

Why so many? Because everyone has proven for a fact that 1 or 2 variables doesn't mean anything by themselves.
Waste of time? Perhaps. But it doesn't take much to write a few lines in an Excel Sheet.

Still not enough data to conclude anything though(about 1500 synths so far) but I have my superstitions

And no sane person will share their secrets. If you discover or know an unknown secret (assuming there is one to discover), power to you. Keep it quiet and upgrade a few relics.

[Thistle]

bitchs.. are u retarded?

Craft is like the Lottery.. all fking random..Its made for you too loose more then you will gain for most of the part.

You didn't get banned for trolling on the Advanced board?

How in the world can you call anyone retarded when you can't even type "you" or "fucking" (I'm assuming that's what your "fking" was supposed to be).

PS: Lose/loose, you might want to look into the difference.

[Nimla]

That really makes no sense from a programming persepctive. Adding in 1% bonus to HQ/Skill/Success/Fail for something like new or full moon would be doable and fit fairly well with the spirit of the game - note I ain't saying it's true!

What you're proposing is impossible because a. it's annoying to program and b. it's annoying to program.

[Skeetaru]

I think the problem that EVERY SINGLE person who rehashes this stuff is that they believe that it HAS to have some sense to it. Why? Because everything in this game makes some sense? Theres a myriad of shit in this game that makes no sense/has no purpose.

ITS A FUCKING RANDOM GOD FUCKING DAMNED NUMBER GENERATOR.

Your mom left your dad for the fucking mailman, that doesn't mean that you had some sort of factor in it.

[Raineer]

I love Skeetaru.

[kargath]

Ok. /random it is. I get it. (I'll still have a hunch, because grubs don't like fragmentation)

But I'm not sure what Aurik is saying with it being no more difficult for a capped crafter vs a crafter who's broken a tier or two. 100,60,60 == 100,1,1?

I thought it worked like this:
The craft closest to cap is checked first (hardest to easiest). So if we had a synth that was 100 in something, 50 in something else, and 5 in a third and I'm a crafter at 100,60,60 for all respective crafts then...

The 100 is checked first (1%/2% w/e to hq) THEN the next closest gap is checked IF HARDEST has hq'd, in this example the 50 - it's still tier0 (10 above, not 11) so there's another 1 or 2% chance. THEN that easy 5 is checked if both previous returned true for hq.

The first two hardest crafts to hq are checked first so I have a 1% chance to hq the first and IF THAT HAPPENS I continue on to be checked for an additional 1% ..and then IF THAT HITS then the 5 (tier3/30%/weak sauce) is checked.

I would have a 30% chance of hq'ing the item AFTER the first two 1/2%'s succeeded - not 1/2% across the board...is this incorrect? Am I doing it wORng?

[Skeetaru]

Ok. /random it is. I get it. (I'll still have a hunch, because grubs don't like fragmentation)

But I'm not sure what Aurik is saying with it being no more difficult for a capped crafter vs a crafter who's broken a tier or two. 100,60,60 == 100,1,1?

I thought it worked like this:
The craft closest to cap is checked first (hardest to easiest). So if we had a synth that was 100 in something, 50 in something else, and 5 in a third and I'm a crafter at 100,60,60 for all respective crafts then...

The 100 is checked first (1%/2% w/e to hq) THEN the next closest gap is checked IF HARDEST has hq'd, in this example the 50 - it's still tier0 (10 above, not 11) so there's another 1 or 2% chance. THEN that easy 5 is checked if both previous returned true for hq.

The first two hardest crafts to hq are checked first so I have a 1% chance to hq the first and IF THAT HAPPENS I continue on to be checked for an additional 1% ..and then IF THAT HITS then the 5 (tier3/30%/weak sauce) is checked.

I would have a 30% chance of hq'ing the item AFTER the first two 1/2%'s succeeded - not 1/2% across the board...is this incorrect? Am I doing it wORng?

http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/attac...s-facepalm.jpg

[kargath]

yay! facepalm!

so I'm doing it worng. Clearly I have a lot to learn...I hope someone here will be willing to enlighten me so I don't make a further ass of myself.

[Skeetaru]

100 with a 10 sub = tier 0 hq
90 with a 60 sub = tier 0 hq
90 with a 5 sub = tier 1 hq


etc etc etc etc

the "highest" (i.e. the lowest % to hq) is the HQ rate you will see

[Spekkio]

min(maintier,sub1tier,sub2tier)=synthtier. it's not like mad bomber or something where it's a roll to pop bomber and then if that's successful a roll to pop gate widow (who's a lie...) and then if that succeeds, a roll to drop. can anyone tell i'm irritated with that little bastard?

[kargath]

oooohhhh, I see what you did there.

I've always just been segregating the "tiers" so-to-speak for each subcraft. So, for example, blessed pumps = 99LC/55CC would be a tier0LC AND a tier0CC as if they were 2 separate synths...where what you're saying (I think) is that there's no point in doing that, so glom them together in the same tier for whichever tier is "the worst".

So if I'm getting this right, brigandine (the smithing variant) would be a TIER0 synth for a naked crafter with LC100, BS60, CC60 because off the bat, the BS is the worst - 50 req (tier0) so this reduces the whole damn synth to tier0 period even though you break tier1 for cc and tier3 for lc.

Is my understanding correct? I like to reiterate lessons to make sure they stick.

[Spekkio]

oooohhhh, I see what you did there.

I've always just been segregating the "tiers" so-to-speak for each subcraft. So, for example, blessed pumps = 99LC/55CC would be a tier0LC AND a tier0CC as if they were 2 separate synths...where what you're saying (I think) is that there's no point in doing that, so glom them together in the same tier for whichever tier is "the worst".

So if I'm getting this right, brigandine (the smithing variant) would be a TIER0 synth for a naked crafter with LC100, BS60, CC60 because off the bat, the BS is the worst - 50 req (tier0) so this reduces the whole damn synth to tier0 period even though you break tier1 for cc and tier3 for lc.

Is my understanding correct? I like to reiterate lessons to make sure they stick.

brig:57 leather, 50 gold, 48 cloth
100-57=43=tier2 leather; 60-50=10=tier0 gold; 60-48=12=tier1 clothcraft.
min(2,0,1)=0. it's tier0 w/o support or specs in gold. moving on.