Defensive skills

[Cream Soda]

Just wondering why you don't have to evade to get an evasion skill up
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...210_235434.png

But to get a pary, guard, or shield skill up, you have to parry, guard, or block with your shield.

[Tajin]

Hmm dunno, always made sense to me. In order to learn to evade attacks, you have to receive some hits while learning how to evade said hits.

[LinktheDeme]

Hmm dunno, always made sense to me. In order to learn to evade attacks, you have to receive some hits while learning how to evade said hits.

same could be applied for parry, and all the other defensive skills.

[Aphelidia]

for the same reason you dont have to make a successful synthesis to gain a crafting skill up.

[Cream Soda]

for the same reason you dont have to make a successful synthesis to gain a crafting skill up.

I think you're missing the point though. There are 4 defensive skills; guard, evasion, shield, parry
Why is evasion the ONLY one you don't have to actually do to get skill ups on. Evasion you can get hit and get skills. To get guard, parry, and/or shield skill ups, you actually have to guard, parry, and/or block with your shield to get skills.

[Raineer]

I always wondered about that as well. Probably a bug, as SE meant for evasion to be the same as everything else lol

[orson]

I always wondered about that as well. Probably a bug, as SE meant for evasion to be the same as everything else lol

Makes the most sense.

[Max™]

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

What the hell exactly did I do to that Typhoon/Puk Wind/Pot Spinning attack that let me parry it, but still get knocked back?

How do you parry the wind?

(goddamn that is zen)

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Wind Shear is a physical AoE like Whirl of Rage so its parryable. Now I have a question for you....how do you parry Detector's laser beams...I always get 0.5 skillups on those! And I parry them with my pole arm! I dare you to have the reaction time to parry a beam of light with a pole thats only 3 inches wide in diameter!

[Tdizzle]

Been awhile, (I'm a thf and capped evasion in like 2004), but I always thought you did have to evade to get a skill up. I know from parry the actual skill up shows weirdly in the log. Like you'll see the skill up before it shows the actual parry or vice versa. Seems there is always something else in the log between the parry and the skill up text, be it another hit or you hitting the mob or whatever.

In your log it clearly shows it missing you a couple lines before the skill up. If you can indeed get a skill up without actually performing the action, perhaps someone has a full log of an evasion skill up where the mob didnt actual miss them in the log? And no aoe ws don't count because SE is silly in how those are figured in. I think many are multi hit and you can parry one and evade another, etc. Kinda like me shield blocking fafnirs spike flail and getting hit for 300 as thf/war when everyone else got hit for 1k+.

[Not Kuno]

You can get evasion skill by getting your ass beat. Thats how us mages capped evasion. I like it better that way.

[Spekkio]

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

What the hell exactly did I do to that Typhoon/Puk Wind/Pot Spinning attack that let me parry it, but still get knocked back?

How do you parry the wind?

(goddamn that is zen)

iirc, the knockback component of the puk AoE attack is determined by the target of the TP move. if they evade/parry/what have you, nobody else will be knocked back. if they get hit, i THINK (i'm a brd. i don't evade.) everyone else gets sent flying regardless.

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

What the hell exactly did I do to that Typhoon/Puk Wind/Pot Spinning attack that let me parry it, but still get knocked back?

How do you parry the wind?

(goddamn that is zen)

jedi?

[Capo]

Been awhile, (I'm a thf and capped evasion in like 2004), but I always thought you did have to evade to get a skill up. I know from parry the actual skill up shows weirdly in the log. Like you'll see the skill up before it shows the actual parry or vice versa. Seems there is always something else in the log between the parry and the skill up text, be it another hit or you hitting the mob or whatever.

In your log it clearly shows it missing you a couple lines before the skill up. If you can indeed get a skill up without actually performing the action, perhaps someone has a full log of an evasion skill up where the mob didnt actual miss them in the log? And no aoe ws don't count because SE is silly in how those are figured in. I think many are multi hit and you can parry one and evade another, etc. Kinda like me shield blocking fafnirs spike flail and getting hit for 300 as thf/war when everyone else got hit for 1k+.

that kinda stuff happens when mobs double or triple attack, you always get the skillup at the start of the attack round, sometimes seconds before the hit is actually parried/blocked in the case of a triple attack.

[Celebrindor]

You can get evasion skill by getting your ass beat. Thats how us mages capped evasion. I like it better that way.

bingo- always nice to get basically a free 150-180 levels of evasion just for overnuking/cure-bombing/playing your job poorly :D (hey I did it too)

[Cream Soda]

perhaps someone has a full log of an evasion skill up where the mob didnt actual miss them in the log?

Will this do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_QMRA2HDgI

[Tdizzle]

perhaps someone has a full log of an evasion skill up where the mob didnt actual miss them in the log?

Will this do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_QMRA2HDgI

epic fight i must say. But works for me!

The more I thought about it the more I thought I remembered getting skill ups while pulling and getting beat on, basically second guessing myself. But it has been years since Ive seen an eva skill up so just wanted to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

I still bang my head against the wall when people ask "how do I skill evasion"... Probably the easiest skill to cap in the game since it doesnt even require you to engage a mob.

[fantasticdan]

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

If you parry a TP move, it will say evades in the log. You can also guard/parry individual hits in a multihit TP move, so you can take damage in the log but still get skill-ups sometimes, this also allows you to get multiple skill ups from a single move.

[Spekkio]

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

If you parry a TP move, it will say evades in the log. You can also guard/parry individual hits in a multihit TP move, so you can take damage in the log but still get skill-ups sometimes, this also allows you to get multiple skill ups from a single move.

same logic as getting multiple skillups with multi-hit ws. in theory, asuran should be able to offer up to 8 skillups, but the odds against this are astronomical.

[fndragon]

same logic as getting multiple skillups with multi-hit ws. in theory, asuran should be able to offer up to 8 skillups, but the odds against this are astronomical.

3/4 barrage skillups here (lv 32-something. Ignore the /p macro, been a LONG while since this pic):
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...n/img_0006.png

But it does get exponentially less probable as you add more hits to have every single one give a skillup.

Still nice to see any kind of skillup, though. I think it is a genuine bug that evasion can skill up when you don't evade something. It's inconsistent with parry and guard's methodology. Not to mention the different "checks" that make a high evasion a detriment when trying to skill up guard:

I think the flow goes: Evasion Check --> Utsusemi Check --> Counterattack Check --> Guard Check (and if this actually TRIGGERS, then you get a chance for a skillup). If you evade or shadow or counter, you can't get a skillup. Not to mention you have to be engaged in a combat stance with the enemy in front of you for the guard check to occur.

[Almalexia]

Better yet, why can you get whacked by a knockback WS, take no damage, see Maxaru evades. in the log, and get a parrying skillup?

The evade-parry skill is a bug. The same happens with guard: I could get a guard skill up and take a bit of damage, but the log will say "Almalexia evades."

As for the knockback, you could argue that damage was deflected but the impact still sends you backward. ¯\(º_o)/¯ Or something.