Need a little help with a c++ project

[Maguspk]

C++ is the hardest programming language, really know what's going on in C++ and you can learn Java over the weekend. There's also a reason why game companies use C and C++ over any other language, it's faster. And don't even try and say "but but Cell phone games and internet games use java!"

Right, which is why they are free.

lol... languages aren't faster than one another.

I can't tell you how much I lol'd at that.

http://www.jelovic.com/articles/why_java_is_slow.htm

And before you offer your rebuttal and some "theories" on when/if Java may ever be faster than C++, or if you want a quick comparison...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... nd_C%2B%2B

No. We should all use languages that make sense for a given project. Java is great because it has a large standard library that makes many common tasks easy. It's more portable than any other popular language (but not 100% portable - different platforms fire events at different times and in different order). It has garbage collection that makes memory management simpler and some constructs like closures possible.

But, at the same time, Java, just like any other language, has some deficiencies. It has no support for types with value semantics. Its synchronization constructs are not efficient enough. Its standard library relies on checked exceptions which are evil because they push implementation details into interfaces. Its performance could be better. The math library has some annoying problems. Etc.

Are these deficiencies a big deal? It depends on what you are building. So know a few languages and pick the one that, together with the compiler and available libraries, makes sense for a given project.

I won't argue one isn't faster than the other anymore because you posted a nice source but I will say what he's referring to isn't specifically the language but a particular compiler. The code itself is not quicker...

[Tajin]

No. We should all use languages that make sense for a given project. Java is great because it has a large standard library that makes many common tasks easy. It's more portable than any other popular language (but not 100% portable - different platforms fire events at different times and in different order). It has garbage collection that makes memory management simpler and some constructs like closures possible.

But, at the same time, Java, just like any other language, has some deficiencies. It has no support for types with value semantics. Its synchronization constructs are not efficient enough. Its standard library relies on checked exceptions which are evil because they push implementation details into interfaces. Its performance could be better. The math library has some annoying problems. Etc.

Are these deficiencies a big deal? It depends on what you are building. So know a few languages and pick the one that, together with the compiler and available libraries, makes sense for a given project.

Which is all fine and dandy until you start typing stuff like C sucks.

[Aerin]

No. We should all use languages that make sense for a given project. Java is great because it has a large standard library that makes many common tasks easy. It's more portable than any other popular language (but not 100% portable - different platforms fire events at different times and in different order). It has garbage collection that makes memory management simpler and some constructs like closures possible.

But, at the same time, Java, just like any other language, has some deficiencies. It has no support for types with value semantics. Its synchronization constructs are not efficient enough. Its standard library relies on checked exceptions which are evil because they push implementation details into interfaces. Its performance could be better. The math library has some annoying problems. Etc.

Are these deficiencies a big deal? It depends on what you are building. So know a few languages and pick the one that, together with the compiler and available libraries, makes sense for a given project.

Oh and thanks for just posting the bottom and completely missing what I was saying. But before you show how your ignorance again, and I get bored with arguing, what I'm trying to show is that Java is not the end-all-be-all programming language, neither is C or C++ it depends on what you're programming.

[Maguspk]

No. We should all use languages that make sense for a given project. Java is great because it has a large standard library that makes many common tasks easy. It's more portable than any other popular language (but not 100% portable - different platforms fire events at different times and in different order). It has garbage collection that makes memory management simpler and some constructs like closures possible.

But, at the same time, Java, just like any other language, has some deficiencies. It has no support for types with value semantics. Its synchronization constructs are not efficient enough. Its standard library relies on checked exceptions which are evil because they push implementation details into interfaces. Its performance could be better. The math library has some annoying problems. Etc.

Are these deficiencies a big deal? It depends on what you are building. So know a few languages and pick the one that, together with the compiler and available libraries, makes sense for a given project.

Which is all fine and dandy until you start typing stuff like C sucks.

Saying I prefer one over the other and constantly trying to get the point across that one isn't better than the other is not saying C sucks. I said I hate C, I hate that people preach C as some amazing language that is perfect, and I hate when people say C is the only way to do anything. Every high-level language caters to certain types of programming and saying one is better than the other (which I've said too many times to count at this point) is just ignorant. If you still haven't gotten that much from my posts, then stop posting.

Btw, Aerin good job with those links, really good information but I'm skeptical to believe it isn't specific to the case of JIT's he was referring to.

Oh and thanks for just posting the bottom and completely missing what I was saying. But before you show how your ignorance again, and I get bored with arguing, what I'm trying to show is that Java is not the end-all-be-all programming language, neither is C or C++ it depends on what you're programming.

I never said Java was the end-all-be-all, and all my posts have said something similar to the bold portion in some form or another. And since you seem to want to take this personally, I encourage you to please point out where I said such a thing and point out all the times I said one isn't better than all the others, thanks. C and Java aren't the only high-level languages, and saying one is perfect is just silly.

[netz]

lol... languages aren't faster than one another.

Java trades speed for safety. Fine-grained memory management has its place, which is why C++ is sticking around for a while longer.

Just pick the right tool for the job. It is faster for newbies to write programs in java, and they commit fewer heinous crimes against humanity doing it. If you're just writing a client program that relies on a server to do a lot of heavy crunching, Java or a scripted web interface will probably do the trick, and be portable across operating systems.

EDIT: I think most people's beef with Java is the abysmal startup times. It's not the language's fault; it's just that Win32 apps have a very high chance of having all of the shared libraries sitting in RAM from other MS programs already loading them. They're also already compiled to machine code whereas java classes get tossed through a compiler on execution.

[Zarath]

Wait what... lol.

God dam it don't feel like picarding this thread...

Can't we just agree to disagree... /sigh

Anyways, my main point of this post is that each language has it's pros and cons, plain and simple, it'll be the day we'll see the perfect programming language, I like how tedious C is sometimes cause it forces you to learn a few things and the inner workings of how things run where is Java it's to a lesser extent (I've helped friends with their Java projects by just adding some coding to it and sometimes I sigh at how easy they get it lol)

The crunch of it is pretty much what Netz said:

Java trades speed for safety. Fine-grained memory management has its place, which is why C++ is sticking around for a while longer.

[Seditedi]

C++ is the hardest programming language, really know what's going on in C++ and you can learn Java over the weekend. There's also a reason why game companies use C and C++ over any other language, it's faster. And don't even try and say "but but Cell phone games and internet games use java!"

Right, which is why they are free.

lol... languages aren't faster than one another.

I can't tell you how much I lol'd at that.

http://www.jelovic.com/articles/why_java_is_slow.htm

And before you offer your rebuttal and some "theories" on when/if Java may ever be faster than C++, or if you want a quick comparison...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... nd_C%2B%2B

Maguspk made it clear that he is a big dummy with that statement.

[Maguspk]

Yes, just simply coding in a language means your code will automatically run faster

http://www.kano.net/javabench/
http://www.tommti-systems.de/main-Datei ... marks.html
http://research.sun.com/techrep/2002/sm ... 02-114.pdf
http://members.lycos.co.uk/wjgoh/Java%2 ... hmarks.doc

It's all fucking relative to what you're doing. To say one language is better than another is wrong. You all seem to agree on this yet you continually say one is faster than another. What you fail to realize is that saying this, in itself, is implying one is better than another. True benchmarks show Java is better in some cases, while C# will outshine Java in other cases; this argument is so stupid. You can sit here all day saying so and so is stupid, and so and so is so wrong, but the fact of the matter is, trying to make a blanket statement is the problem here. Just agree that you can't generalize everything, especially not performance.

I guess everybody, even the highly respected people in the Computer Science community, who choose to code things in Java are just stupid. Why don't they use the obviously superior C, those douchebags. God, can't they see it's always faster than Java.. fucking dumbasses. I'll sooner listen to my professor/boss with publications in ICSE; who ironically codes in C alot because that's how he learned it, but says Java is just as good and really they both have their strengths and weaknesses, than I decide what some people on the internet think is the "best language" or "fastest language". It's all a stupid argument trying to assert one as superior than the other because cases can be made to refute the other side.

[Zarath]

And why there's eleventy billion coding languages out there

[Charla]

Java trades speed for safety. Fine-grained memory management has its place, which is why C++ is sticking around for a while longer.

Actually I think that's why people who know how to use assembly languages are sticking around for a little longer. Rather than say "x is faster than y", it's probably more accurate to say "x can optimize more than y can". But of course, nothing can optimize more than writing the assembly code yourself. That being said, it's just not worth the effort the vast majority of the time, and you're left with a system of tradeoffs.

[netz]

Java trades speed for safety. Fine-grained memory management has its place, which is why C++ is sticking around for a while longer.

Actually I think that's why people who know how to use assembly languages are sticking around for a little longer. Rather than say "x is faster than y", it's probably more accurate to say "x can optimize more than y can". But of course, nothing can optimize more than writing the assembly code yourself. That being said, it's just not worth the effort the vast majority of the time, and you're left with a system of tradeoffs.

True, I think there's a lot of inline assembly stuffed into some 3D games (I believe John Carmack made a career out of doing it) but there aren't too many people around who have a reason to mess with that level of optimization. Even fewer know how to write it better than the compiler would.