The AV Videos: READ THE -OP- AND THREAD BEFORE POSTING!

[Tygiuu]

I'm pretty sure that SB will land through PD.

According to my THF fren, no it does not.

Jordan says:
Does Shield Bash connect with PD on
Krista says:
No
Krista says:
Only ranged attacks and magic
Krista says:
PD dodges every melee attack

Your THF fren is wrong.

ALRIGHT THIS CALLS FOR A D-D-D-D-DUEL

[Demosthenes11]

This doesn't hold true throughout the whole video, but it looks like using the wrong element also forces him to WS.

In the beginning it starts with blizzard at the end of iceday, and then when a blizzard lands on him at like 0:01 lightningsday, he immediately WSs. Then they all switch to thunder, no WS until a blm blizzard IVs him, and then again an immediately WS.

The nukes aren't causing 2hours/WSs later in the video though, so not sure exactly if it's correlation or causation

[Cautery]

So, is there anyone out there is gonna try all these new theories tonight?

[willriker]

simple question.

i have not see the video's of people trying to replicate the SE hint release in game. and had a question about the very start of the fight. to clarify the time of fight i am examining, JoL dies and you are lucky enough to get AV to pop.

Did these LS's on kujata and, crap the other server name illudes me, immidiately spring into action? or did they wipe, with a level 4 bst (or w/e) holding it until the alliance was ready to move in?

We all know that AV spawns with agro on the alliance. well, agro on one person and alliance hate. it has always been my opinion that once AV loses this initial hate he becomes near impossible. lol, hes impossible to kill when you engage right off the bat, but easily wipes our alliance far sooner if it had lost this initial agro. perhaps there is a way to counter his 2 hours with player two hours... but after initial agro is lost there is no way to counter his 2 hours with player two hours.

yes, this was mentioned in the original av strat thread. But it was not mentioned in this one. and since we are revisiting the player two hour idea due to the credibility granted to it through the SE hint video. I would like to revisit this idea as well.

Not once have i seen an SE video which lets AV lose its initial agro. (the three that have been released)

Im actualy hoping this has no effect on AV. it probably doesnt. but if it does, it would make repeated testing on the same AV impossible. and therefore... make the entire proving/disproving strategies much more difficult. but, if it does have an effect there is an upside, only morons will try to sweep in and gank your AV at a low HP wipe.

just another thing to discuiss lol.

oh, ill throw this at flamers!!!

[Tygiuu]

So, is there anyone out there is gonna try all these new theories tonight?

If not tonight, most likely saturday, a ton of people said they were gonna have at it.

[Obev]

I'm hoping that theory 1 is not as unfair as that seems. You'd need to have at least two people burning two-hour abilities every time Absolute Virtue uses his, and that's just to lock Manafont and Benediction.

I think the idea might be to possibly have to just deal with Benes and save usage of them until near the end. Bene was one that didn't get used every time, it was left out of more than one unlike the Call Wyvern. However, since I'm quite sure that it was just set that their JA timers would not get reset at all on any usage for this fight and video, they could have spammed Bene all they wanted.

But it is most definite that there are usually at least 2 BLMs, except for one instance, always using Manafont. As in, they literally said SOMEONE MUST USE MANAFONT EVERY TIME HE 2HRS. Their fight was no more than 2 hrs and change, I highly doubt they had a Meteor wipe.

Mhm. I'm quite interested to see what a jobability-free Absolute Virtue fight would be like in terms of the speed of his two-hour usage. If it's something manageable then maybe my imaginary train of level 37 Black Mages is unnecessary. If he's using one ability every ten or fifteen minutes then it would be perhaps manageable with merely a single party of pointy-hatted midgets. I hadn't considered that perhaps he routinely uses two-hour abilities anyway, and that the "retaliation" two-hour use is merely in addition to this. Anyways, I'll stay out of this thread for now; no Love fights scheduled 'til next month and any more talk on my part is just needless jaw-flapping. Eagerly awaiting the ability/skill-free fights' results.

[*Shinzon*]

simple question.

i have not see the video's of people trying to replicate the SE hint release in game. and had a question about the very start of the fight. to clarify the time of fight i am examining, JoL dies and you are lucky enough to get AV to pop.

Did these LS's on kujata and, crap the other server name illudes me, immidiately spring into action? or did they wipe, with a level 4 bst (or w/e) holding it until the alliance was ready to move in?

We all know that AV spawns with agro on the alliance. well, agro on one person and alliance hate. it has always been my opinion that once AV loses this initial hate he becomes near impossible. lol, hes impossible to kill when you engage right off the bat, but easily wipes our alliance far sooner if it had lost this initial agro. perhaps there is a way to counter his 2 hours with player two hours... but after initial agro is lost there is no way to counter his 2 hours with player two hours.

yes, this was mentioned in the original av strat thread. But it was not mentioned in this one. and since we are revisiting the player two hour idea due to the credibility granted to it through the SE hint video. I would like to revisit this idea as well.

Not once have i seen an SE video which lets AV lose its initial agro. (the three that have been released)

Im actualy hoping this has no effect on AV. it probably doesnt. but if it does, it would make repeated testing on the same AV impossible. and therefore... make the entire proving/disproving strategies much more difficult. but, if it does have an effect there is an upside, only morons will try to sweep in and gank your AV at a low HP wipe.

just another thing to discuiss lol.

oh, ill throw this at flamers!!!

No, we wiped and had to hold it.

[Sev]

they wiped to a pop and 100 fists and held with a lvl 4 cor

[Kayos]

The PLD's are opening each "zoom" sequence by starting with Invincible. It seems this is how things are started everytime. The last 3 "zoom" sequences, after AV uses the dust cloud maneuver, the PLD complies with Invincible. AV seems to follow up with his own 2-hour, then the PT promptly utilize each their own 2-hours.

I know nothing about fighting AV, but it seems worthwhile to offer my observations of the video in that every "zoom" sequence occurs right on par with the PLD's Invincible.

Plds are closer to AV and can probably react better to seeing the 2 hour animation.

Edit: AV 2 hour came before Invincible as people have mentioned.

[Gerkin]

i like the JP video better, if only i could read it

You know what I thought was wierd about the JoL part of the JP fight? Is that they don't kill a single shark, but in the NA version, that's all they kill. lol

/shrug

Can see them up close fighting AV as well, just an overall better video.

[Kyreth]

Brienna and ismarc -two of the sanest single-digit posters I have ever seen on BG. Kudos.

And the "reactive AV" theory is interesting, added to the "window of opportunity" one thanks to the video. It would explain the massive headbutt-into-a-brick-wall that most previous AV attempts have been to date- since the existing tactics for HNM fighting tend towards speed and Kraken/Chopper zerging vs. this saturation BLM bombardment the AV video is showing.

It's like S-E developed this fight specifically to bone everyone going for rush kills. And we fell for it.

[ByeByeTasai]

Sadly the more I think about this Retaliation theory, the more I'm starting to understand their gear choices.

edit: sorry, lemme explain what I mean...

PLD Koenig Body - Is it possibly that VIT helps against Meteor(Domaru +6 VIT, but why that over like an osode if going for VIT build eludes me) and other AV death attacks? Not to mention that it has High defense and HP + 60 and Enmity really wont be much of a problem with BLM's alternating through tier 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 Nukes and nobody WSing.

Earth Staves - PLDs dont need as much enmity, nor do they need a Shield to Bash with if it can cause a reaction. RDMs same thing with enmity, and also like PLD can always benefit from the DMG -% to save support MP and hate.

Now I'm in no way saying that these things are the key or any of that other bullshit that's been joked about 100 times. All I'm saying is that I can see how Developers could choose to wear these things if our retaliation theory is correct. And could also be there to show that you can have total Douche Bags in your alliance and still win.

[Tygiuu]

Sadly the more I think about this Retaliation theory, the more I'm starting to understand their gear choices.

Would also explain why NIN/DRKs aren't used, nor is NIN/WAR, since if provoke makes AV react, it's clearly not wise to use. And NIN/DRK keeps hate with spell casts. I assume the wrong element (As posted earlier) makes him react negatively. (Or at least it was posted as a theory.)

[Wraith]

And NIN/DRK keeps hate with spell casts. I assume the wrong element (As posted earlier) makes him react negatively. (Or at least it was posted as a theory.)

I don't think so. You'll notice the rdm/nin's were spamming dispel and sleep on him, independent of what the day was, so I would think a nin/drk would be ok to do the same as long as he doesn't use JA's.

[Tygiuu]

And NIN/DRK keeps hate with spell casts. I assume the wrong element (As posted earlier) makes him react negatively. (Or at least it was posted as a theory.)

I don't think so. You'll notice the rdm/nin's were spamming dispel and sleep on him, independent of what the day was, so I would think a nin/drk would be ok to do the same as long as he doesn't use JA's.

That's a good point, dunno why I forgot about the RDM/NINs in the video :O Must be after watching it 300,000 times I just forget they're there since they're not really what I'm looking for anymore.

[Clynt]

This was posted in the other thread by someone else, and may have been overlooked, but I think it's quite interesting

Also, not sure how noone has noticed this yet, but look at 1:30. SAM uses Tachi:Gekko, the second after he uses that, dum dum dum, look what AV retaliates with. EES. Only time he uses EES, and only time a WS is used on him. (ok there's a flat blade later on (don't ask) but that was during CS, so probably not a point where he could retaliate with EES. There's another Flat Blade @7:12 by Seksivega also, which is immediately retaliated with SAM 2 hour by AV. Possibly a relation? Short of the chainspell, those are the only two offensive 2hours used by AV in the whole fight, both of which had an offensive WS used on him first. Only 2 WSes used on him, only EES and SAM 2hour used. Hard to tell with the chainspell, since thats more of a magical ability, perhaps he used it in retaliation to some magic spell. Hard to believe since he was being pelted with magic the whole time.

Around 2:20-:30 in the video, someone casts blizzard on AV, AV uses a TP move, someone thunder shots, and AV immediately uses chainspell. It was lightningsday when the video was recorded.

[Talint]

does shield bash connect on a thf when they use PD?

Possibly the only thing I want to contribute to this thread:

Yes, Shield Bash connects against a THF during Perfect Dodge. I do it during Dynamis all the time against THF mobs who PD.

[Tygiuu]

This was posted in the other thread by someone else, and may have been overlooked, but I think it's quite interesting

Also, not sure how noone has noticed this yet, but look at 1:30. SAM uses Tachi:Gekko, the second after he uses that, dum dum dum, look what AV retaliates with. EES. Only time he uses EES, and only time a WS is used on him. (ok there's a flat blade later on (don't ask) but that was during CS, so probably not a point where he could retaliate with EES. There's another Flat Blade @7:12 by Seksivega also, which is immediately retaliated with SAM 2 hour by AV. Possibly a relation? Short of the chainspell, those are the only two offensive 2hours used by AV in the whole fight, both of which had an offensive WS used on him first. Only 2 WSes used on him, only EES and SAM 2hour used. Hard to tell with the chainspell, since thats more of a magical ability, perhaps he used it in retaliation to some magic spell. Hard to believe since he was being pelted with magic the whole time.

Around 2:20-:30 in the video, someone casts blizzard on AV, AV uses a TP move, someone thunder shots, and AV immediately uses chainspell. It was lightningsday when the video was recorded.

It's a job ability, so it holds true to the reactive theory.

[Linktri]

I don't think anyone in the videos every uses any job abilities other than 2hrs. The paladin gets hate with Flash initially in the English version. I never saw him use Provoke. The Red Mage helps keep hate by spamming a metric fuck ton of spells at AV. Really, most of the spells seem to have little to no effect. It would seem that the "speed of the fight" itself that SE says we are going about the wrong way is that using job abilities to control hate won't work with AV. It will mercilessly kill anyone that tries it. Hate control is what permits us to fight mobs faster. Perhaps the one of the reasons why SE uses 2hrs when AV 2hrs is because it's the only time they can get away with it without retaliation. It would seem that once whatever effect is acheived by having mages nuke elements compatible with the day, the mages stop nuking. In the sequence before the death of AV, the mages aren't doing a damn thing but using 2hrs.

[Sev]

went to brenner Shield bash lands thru Perfect dodge 100%