The AV Videos: READ THE -OP- AND THREAD BEFORE POSTING!

[Leonock]

Spirit Surge is a DRG's Two Hour.... not Call Wyvern.

Why on earth would SE show a DRG using Call Wyvern in response to AV using it then?

Seriously, it's been said about 18 million times in this thread that Call Wyvern is the correct response.

You said testing "usage of two hours not JAs" ... Spirit Surge is a 2hour.

Mobs don't have Spirit Surge for a 2 hour, they have Call Wyvern, because over a year ago Call Wyvern WAS the Drg 2 hour. Hence why I asked if you weren't a DRG long, since you didn't make the connection yourself. Mobs weren't given the new 2 hour. AV is no exception. Call Wyvern is his 2 hour.

No no, I understand this. But from what I got from the video/this thread was that two hours didn't affect AV. So using COR/PUP/BLU two hours shouldnt do anything either (along with DRG's Spirit Surge)

[Otaku]

Although I think it's obvious and shouldn't need to be tested, someone please test Spirit Surge when AV is not under the effect of a 2 hour and see if he retaliates?

[Redshift]

I've read the thread, doing JoL x3 this weekend, testing stuff if AV pops, don't yell at me, rah rah rah

To those people that have fought AV since the video, did you kill JoL summons at the same time? Or hold 2 of them and just kill the single? Trying to figure out if there is a connection to AV in any way; prerequisite for weakening? Maybe more summoned sets dead = increased AV chance? I know we hold 2 pets and rarely get AVs, like 4 AV out of 30 or so JoLs. I can't think of another reason SE would put JoL in that video, unless they seriously think we have trouble killing Jolol...

Since there appears to be some relationship with using offensive magic to the correct element of the day and AV using TP/2h, it may be possible that using the JA or WS of the day's element (ES=dark, berserk=fire, etc) could have similar effect? Dare I say, spam the 2hrs of the same element as the day after AV does his 2h?

Throwing shit out here. If we get AV I'll try to convince people it's worth the exp loss.

[Narse]

As far as 2hr locking goes, it's not important. First off, using 2hrs to prevent him from using it next is pointless at the rate he currently spams 2hrs. If it can be controlled through use (or unuse) of certain magic WS and JAs, then it might be viable. Fact is all 15 2hrs (or 14 + Call Wyvern) were used, and AV 2hr'd afterwards. That's all our test was trying to check for.

[Otaku]

As far as 2hr locking goes, it's not important. First off, using 2hrs to prevent him from using it next is pointless at the rate he currently spams 2hrs. If it can be controlled through use (or unuse) of certain magic WS and JAs, then it might be viable. Fact is all 15 2hrs (or 14 + Call Wyvern) were used, and AV 2hr'd afterwards. That's all our test was trying to check for.

Was it a "uses" or a "readies" ?

[Jeryhn]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

[Otaku]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

And this is exactly why I said Spirit Surge invalidated the 15 job 2 hour test.. it's a variable.

You'll notice the Devs don't use Spirit Surge either. They use Call Wyvern when all the 2 hours are being spammed.

*Edit*
Progress can't be made if the script isn't being followed. You can't say you tested/proved/disproved a theory about what happens when you do X and only X, if you also did Y.

[Narse]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

Quite impossible, as they 2hr every 5minutes. Obviously not meant to be replicated to the letter.

[Jeryhn]

Way to miss the point, but okay.

[Suiram]

I've read the thread, doing JoL x3 this weekend, testing stuff if AV pops, don't yell at me, rah rah rah

What time? I was hoping someone would pop it soon on Pandemonium because I wanted to check something out that's easier to test as a bystander than a participant and nobody else ever seems to really attempt it on our server. I won't get in the way.

[Rya]

Spirit Surge is a DRG's Two Hour.... not Call Wyvern.

Why on earth would SE show a DRG using Call Wyvern in response to AV using it then?

Seriously, it's been said about 18 million times in this thread that Call Wyvern is the correct response.

You said testing "usage of two hours not JAs" ... Spirit Surge is a 2hour.

Mobs don't have Spirit Surge for a 2 hour, they have Call Wyvern, because over a year ago Call Wyvern WAS the Drg 2 hour. Hence why I asked if you weren't a DRG long, since you didn't make the connection yourself. Mobs weren't given the new 2 hour. AV is no exception. Call Wyvern is his 2 hour.

No no, I understand this. But from what I got from the video/this thread was that two hours didn't affect AV. So using COR/PUP/BLU two hours shouldnt do anything either (along with DRG's Spirit Surge)

I believe he is refering to Spirit surge being something other than a 2hour available to AV, therefore it may be classed as a JA by AV and make hime want to smash you in the face.

[Narse]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

And this is exactly why I said Spirit Surge invalidated the 15 job 2 hour test.. it's a variable.

You'll notice the Devs don't use Spirit Surge either. They use Call Wyvern when all the 2 hours are being spammed.

*Edit*
Progress can't be made if the script isn't being followed. You can't say you tested/proved/disproved a theory about what happens when you do X and only X, if you also did Y.

THE THEORY WASN'T TESTING RETALION THEORIES OR ANY OTHER SHIT YOU FUCKING GUYS PAY ATTENTION WE DID THIS YESTERDAY AT A POINT PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS STUFF COMING OUT SO WE WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT! THE FACT IS THERE WAS A THEORY THAT USING 2HRS PREVENTS AV FROM USING THAT NEXT TIME HE 2HRS. WE USED ALL 2HRS, WHICH WOULD GIVE ONE OF TWO RESULTS:

1) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO A 2HR *THAT* TIME, OR 2) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO 2HRS AT ALL.

THIS DISPROVES 2), IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT SPIRIT SURGE WAS USED DOES NOT MATTER IF BIO WAS CAST ETC ETC ETC


..god damn dense fucking people.

[ByeByeTasai]

As weeks was mentioning earlier, maybe the "Readies" 2hrs are the ones directly tied to the surrounding monsters. Would be nice to get a list compiled and get screenshots of "readying" and "using" 2hrs. Also see if anyone has seen him ready a 2hr and then use that same one again in the fight, without letting him completely regen. Could be that you can force him to Ready a 2hr and he won't use it again or something similar.

[Leonock]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

And this is exactly why I said Spirit Surge invalidated the 15 job 2 hour test.. it's a variable.

You'll notice the Devs don't use Spirit Surge either. They use Call Wyvern when all the 2 hours are being spammed.

*Edit*
Progress can't be made if the script isn't being followed. You can't say you tested/proved/disproved a theory about what happens when you do X and only X, if you also did Y.

THE THEORY WASN'T TESTING RETALION THEORIES OR ANY OTHER SHIT YOU FUCKING GUYS PAY ATTENTION WE DID THIS YESTERDAY AT A POINT PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS STUFF COMING OUT SO WE WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT! THE FACT IS THERE WAS A THEORY THAT USING 2HRS PREVENTS AV FROM USING THAT NEXT TIME HE 2HRS. WE USED ALL 2HRS, WHICH WOULD GIVE ONE OF TWO RESULTS:

1) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO A 2HR *THAT* TIME, OR 2) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO 2HRS AT ALL.

THIS DISPROVES 2), IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT SPIRIT SURGE WAS USED DOES NOT MATTER IF BIO WAS CAST ETC ETC ETC


..god damn dense fucking people.

Yes.

[Jeryhn]

THE THEORY WASN'T TESTING RETALION THEORIES OR ANY OTHER SHIT YOU FUCKING GUYS PAY ATTENTION WE DID THIS YESTERDAY AT A POINT PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS STUFF COMING OUT SO WE WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT! THE FACT IS THERE WAS A THEORY THAT USING 2HRS PREVENTS AV FROM USING THAT NEXT TIME HE 2HRS. WE USED ALL 2HRS, WHICH WOULD GIVE ONE OF TWO RESULTS:

1) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO A 2HR *THAT* TIME, OR 2) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO 2HRS AT ALL.

THIS DISPROVES 2), IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT SPIRIT SURGE WAS USED DOES NOT MATTER IF BIO WAS CAST ETC ETC ETC


..god damn dense fucking people.

Except its clear through this thread that AV obviously is a responsive mob that retaliates to certain actions, so these details are kinda important.

Maybe you should stop testing things if you don't know how or what to test.
Your EXP bar will thank you for it.

[Otaku]

Could you explain then? Im not trying to start an argument, just saying how I don't think Spirit Surge should have affected the fight.

Call Wyvern is the equivalent of the DRG Two Hour to AV.
Spirit Surge is just another JA, the usage of which may cause AV to retaliate with Meteor.

Yes, I know Spirit Surge is a Two Hour, but AV does not use it, it uses Call Wyvern.
Hence, the correct response is Call Wyvern and Call Wyvern ONLY.

You see, the problem with people testing theories on AV, is that no one is controlling variables such as this.
Tests like the Bio one on Iceday tells us something, because its clear AV retaliates to usage of the wrong kind of elemental damage.

You guys want to kill AV, don't you think it'd be best to try and reproduce SE's video to the letter?

And this is exactly why I said Spirit Surge invalidated the 15 job 2 hour test.. it's a variable.

You'll notice the Devs don't use Spirit Surge either. They use Call Wyvern when all the 2 hours are being spammed.

*Edit*
Progress can't be made if the script isn't being followed. You can't say you tested/proved/disproved a theory about what happens when you do X and only X, if you also did Y.

THE THEORY WASN'T TESTING RETALION THEORIES OR ANY OTHER SHIT YOU FUCKING GUYS PAY ATTENTION WE DID THIS YESTERDAY AT A POINT PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS STUFF COMING OUT SO WE WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT! THE FACT IS THERE WAS A THEORY THAT USING 2HRS PREVENTS AV FROM USING THAT NEXT TIME HE 2HRS. WE USED ALL 2HRS, WHICH WOULD GIVE ONE OF TWO RESULTS:

1) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO A 2HR *THAT* TIME, OR 2) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO 2HRS AT ALL.

THIS DISPROVES 2), IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT SPIRIT SURGE WAS USED DOES NOT MATTER IF BIO WAS CAST ETC ETC ETC


..god damn dense fucking people.

It would disprove it if that Mighty Strikes would've occurred anyway and it wasn't a retaliation to Spirit Surge or something else. If Spirit Surge is test and AV doesn't retaliate it, then your theory holds water. Otherwise your test had an uncontrolled variable. Common sense is anything but common.

*edit*
I'm uncertain if you mean spamming all 2 hours locks ANY type of 2 hour? I thought you meant you were locking the 2 hours AV would use naturally. His retaliatory 2 hours probably aren't lockable. That was the popular theory as I understand it?

[Ashira]

[quote="Otaku"]And this is exactly why I said Spirit Surge invalidated the 15 job 2 hour test.. it's a variable.[/qutoe]

Etc etc...

ok, the 15 job lock didn't work? That included a Mijin and an EES? On what mobs, AV himself?

I also said I had a feeling that it wouldn't lock him, that using all 15 would cancel itself out. Because that would.. be too simple. Or it would prevent 2H usage maybe for a particular while but then it would time out or some such.

The other test for finding out if the '2hrs used last time AV 2hred cannot be used next 2hr' is to do only 13 jobs using 2hrs, and I mentioned it before - everything but NIN and RNG (to take out the offensive usage), and preferably after Wynavs are killed. By process of elimination, the only 2h he should use then is EES (as Wynavs are needed for Mijin).

But the test with the no Manafont, and then Manafont usage after all BLM 2hrs were gone is definitely promising.

[Leonock]

THE THEORY WASN'T TESTING RETALION THEORIES OR ANY OTHER SHIT YOU FUCKING GUYS PAY ATTENTION WE DID THIS YESTERDAY AT A POINT PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS STUFF COMING OUT SO WE WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT! THE FACT IS THERE WAS A THEORY THAT USING 2HRS PREVENTS AV FROM USING THAT NEXT TIME HE 2HRS. WE USED ALL 2HRS, WHICH WOULD GIVE ONE OF TWO RESULTS:

1) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO A 2HR *THAT* TIME, OR 2) AV CAN'T USE ANY 2HR NEXT TIME HE ATTEMPTS TO 2HR SO WOULD CANCEL HIS ABILITY TO DO 2HRS AT ALL.

THIS DISPROVES 2), IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT SPIRIT SURGE WAS USED DOES NOT MATTER IF BIO WAS CAST ETC ETC ETC


..god damn dense fucking people.

Except its clear through this thread that AV obviously is a responsive mob that retaliates to certain actions, so these details are kinda important.

Maybe you should stop testing things if you don't know how or what to test.
Your EXP bar will thank you for it.

They knew what to test, and they did it. And we shouldnt really be telling people to stop testing no matter what they want to test. Let them, it helps more than the speculation in this thread or the arguing/name calling.

[IncredibleGulk]

i've read almost every thread, and i could have easily overlooked this, but did anyone else notice in the clip where the day changed from Ice -> Lightning, just as the screem fades a blm starts casting Bliz 4. at about 0:07 of Lightningsday. you can easily see 3-4 blms casting thunder spells before him. too bad the vid faded out and couldnt see what AV did after that

[Jeryhn]

They knew what to test, and they did it. And we shouldnt really be telling people to stop testing no matter what they want to test. Let them, it helps more than the speculation in this thread or the arguing/name calling.

Did they? Did they read this thread or watch the video?

We already knew that not all 15 jobs prior to ToAU are not needed (and by extension, their Two Hours) because SE only uses the following jobs in their video:
PLD, WHM, BLM, RDM, SMN, BRD, DRG, SAM, DRK