COR + Meat?

[Kirbyprime]

A small question to all the COR out there. Are you able to use meat? Simply put I've been using sushi all this time and my lack of damage is getting annoying. I can throw out 800 dmg slugshots but I know I'm capable to doing much more if I could switch to meat. However I haven't been able to get enough acc to pull it off so the question. Is there any COR out there that uses Meat full time? Or at least, uses meat at bird camp? If so, what gear do you use to pull it off?

[Munkey]

In meripo at bird camp using sushi my slugs are 1100-1500 on birds, with minuet/madrigal chaos roll/cor roll


Merk Kris
Coffinmaker
Steel Bullets
Ohat
Breeze Gorget
Beater's Earring
Vision Earring
P Body/ Denali body
Blood Finger Guantlets
Mermans ring
Behemoth's Ring +1
Ame +1
Gun Belt
P legs
Bounding Boots (yes i know i need upgrade)

75COR/37RNG

[Kirbyprime]

Hummm what do you change when you melee? Major problem I have is that my acc drops to around 60% without sushi. If my acc was at least 80% at least I can use Detonator with meat.

[Zarath]

Stay away from meat, miss rate is about a good 30% lower (at least) for me without sushi on both melee and slugshot acc. 8/8 Marksmanship merits, lots of r acc too. Since you really can't rely on Hunter's roll for accuracy since half the time it's probably not on you.

WS:
Shikaree Aketon -> hoping on Denali Soon
Jalzahn's Ring
Rajas Ring
Qiqirn Collar
Galliard Trousers -> Pah Pants soon and later Skadi
Crimson Fng. Gnt. -> Maybe be changed to Skadi
Gun Belt
Corsair's Tricorne
Minuet Earring
Drone Earring
Corsair's Bottes -> Hoping on Skadi Drop

Coffinmaker
Steel Bullets
Joytoy

I hit around 1200~ slugs on average on birds with a /rng sub.

I TP in haste% gear, if not applicable, I throw on ACC, if not applicable I throw on atk or str there, if not applicable there just w/e slot.

I have a modest amount of acc+ while I have a good 15% haste, once I get my skadi though I'll be higher =/

[Rishiku]

I'm in the same boat as the original poster with regular Slugshots for 800-900dmg on birds. My set up is as follows:

Trailers Kurki/Joyeuse
Mercurial Kris
Martial Gun/Corsair's Gun/Coffinmaker
Steel Bullets
Corsairs Tricone
Peacock Charm
Drone Earring/Accurate Earring/Moldative(Moldative for Quick Draw)
Vision Earring
P. Body
Blood Gauntlets
Jalzhaan's Ring/Luzaf's Ring(Situational ex. manaburns)
Sniper's Ring +1
Amamet Mantle +1
Precise Belt
Dusk Trouser's +1
Akinji Feet

I'm fine with Ranged Accuracy, but I tried out some other food besides Squid Sushi +1 (the usual) but didnt see a noticeable difference in damage. Maybe I should get some more Marksmanship merits and see where I am. I'll also see if I cant get some more TP gear and some more STR gear to test out damage and rng. accuracy wise. Anyway, let me know if you have any suggestions for gear/foods/merits that seem to have worked out for you.

[Zarath]

Try losing some r acc pieces, since the problem with sushi is u can't get high enough acc to rely using meat where is with sushi you have too much acc.

Just think of it this way right now you have a acc of 75% with sushi you'll go as high as 110% (if acc didn't cap) so instead switch out some STR, AGI and r atk gear instead in a few slots such as Sniper Ring +1 could be changed to Rajas, Dusk trousers could be changed to pah pants, vison earring could be changed to triumph earrings, even both of them can.

Essentially what you want is a high pDif value and a high Base Damage value, since of our shitty STR we should bulk up on STR when we can on certain pieces to get a good fSTR out of our guns (chances we'll never ever get to the cap of this, additionally since it has a lower cap that can impact negatively to our overall WS damage we want to get a good value for it), second of all we want a high r atk value so that we can get a high, to near cap pDif value (since this is capped at a certain point, chances are we won't get to that cap though however it's a trade off of either Base Damage getting hit or pDif value getting hit if we concentrate on only one of them)

The only slots I have for AGI are slots where is I don't have a STR item on hand (or where is my STR item is on borrow) or it's part of the piece itself. Since we have a shitty overall fSTR and pDif normally I try to maximize the effects of both though gear since acc will be handled by the sushi (since without a good pDif or fSTR the WSC really is meaningless)

ONLY, especially if you're merited like me, use r acc in your WS slots if there's absolutely no other alternatives on hand. Most good COR gear for WS has r acc tacked on with it's good stats so generally it's not a huge issue. I have about 95% hit rate on slugs @ 100% at close range so it's good enough for me.

[Amarok!]

How would you calculate how much r.acc is enough? On my 75 COR with 6 merits in marksmanship, without food I have +72 r.acc, and I still find using corsair bullets for slugshot to be better for accuracy when using squid sushi+1. My setup is:

Trailer's Kukri - Ranged Accuracy +14
Chiroptera Dagger - Ranged Accuracy +12
Coffinmaker - Ranged Accuracy +9
Bullet/Iron/Steel for normal use. Corsair Bullet for Slug Shot - Ranged Accuracy +25
Corsair's Tricorne - Ranged Accuracy +8 (I have full merits in Quickdraw so leave this on)
Diabolos's Torque - Ranged Accuracy + 8 (except for Dark Weather)
Fenrir's Earring - Ranged Attack +10 (at nighttime)
Genin Earring - Agi +4
Pahluwan Khazagand - Ranged Accuracy +10
Pahluwan Dastanas - Ranged Accuracy +5 Ranged Attack +5, +Crit hits
Rajas Ring - STR +5
Jalzahn's Ring - Ranged Accuracy +6 Ranged Attack +6
Amemet Mantle +1 - STR +2 Ranged Attack +15
Pahluwan Seraweels - STR +3 Ranged Accuracy +4
Pahluwan Crackows - Ranged Accuracy +3

So during Slug Shots my R.Acc is +97, plus whatever Squid Sushi +1 gives, + 6 Marksmanship

Seeing that I'm a Galka COR, what equip changes would anyone suggest? Maybe to add more STR or R.att? Or maybe I should simply try using Meat and hope Corsair bullets do the job alone for Slug Shot.

[Callisto]

I usually use Coeurl Subs in meripo and I really don't have many issues, although I stick to Detonator when Sharpshot is down and Slug when it's up(with a Martial Gun @ 100% TP Detonator damage isn't much lower, and it's much more accurate).

I use this for TP:

Joy
O.Hat
PCC
Hollow Earring
Fenrir's Earring
Paluwhan Body
War Gloves
Garrulous Ring(upgrading to a second Woodsman or Sniper when I can)
Woodsman Ring
Amemet +1
Potent Belt
Denali Kecks
Crimson Greaves

This for Ratks/Barrage:

AF Hat
PCC
Hollow/Fenrir
AF Body
Crim Gauntlets
Behemoth x2
Amemet+1
Gun Belt
Denali Kecks
AF Feet

And for WS:

AF Hat
Light Gorget
Drone Earring
Fenrir's Earring
Blue Cotehardie
Crim Gauntlets
Garrulous Ring
Behemoth(Slug) or Ruby(Detonator)
Amemet+1
Warwolf Belt
Denali Kecks
AF Feet

My melee acc probably isn't close to capped, but it definitely isn't near 60%. TP set has +54 Acc and I have a few sword merits from RDM. As I said earlier I stick to Detonator when SS is down, it only does about 70 less damage that Slug does at 100% TP using Martial Gun, and I don't need to worry about missing it. This lets me eat subs and consistently put up decent #'s, and consistently losing said sub right after I WS.

How would you calculate how much r.acc is enough? On my 75 COR with 6 merits in marksmanship, without food I have +72 r.acc, and I still find using corsair bullets for slugshot to be better for accuracy when using squid sushi+1. My setup is:

So during Slug Shots my R.Acc is +97, plus whatever Squid Sushi +1 gives, + 6 Marksmanship

Seeing that I'm a Galka COR, what equip changes would anyone suggest? Maybe to add more STR or R.att? Or maybe I should simply try using Meat and hope Corsair bullets do the job alone for Slug Shot.

Honestly that setup may be overdoing it a bit even, and you're losing a whole lot of damage using Corsair Bullets instead of Steel, I only use those to TP on bigtime mobs. I personally don't use /NIN at all but that's just my preference. I know everyone loves Slug, but I guarantee you that in my setup my Detonators do a decent amount more than your Slugs, without the accuracy issues. You should look to start swapping in some STR in a few slots.

[Amarok!]

Took me a while to figure out you're talking about your RNG, not COR, since you are using Martial gun (but why use a gun belt if you're talking about RNG main?).

But not a great deal of difference I guess, the same kind of advice seems useful. Cheers.

[Kirbyprime]

? No, COR can use Martial Gun.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6413

And to Callisto, just wondering, do you usually have a BRD in your PT? I normally have +53 acc in my setup but at the very most I can get around 72-75% acc on birds. Though I don't really count the times that I have a BRD in my pt. I also rarely if ever use Hunter's roll so not sure if that might fix it.

[Amarok!]

My bad, was looking at the outdated pic of the gun on ffxiclopedia.

[Callisto]

And to Callisto, just wondering, do you usually have a BRD in your PT? I normally have +53 acc in my setup but at the very most I can get around 72-75% acc on birds. Though I don't really count the times that I have a BRD in my pt. I also rarely if ever use Hunter's roll so not sure if that might fix it.

Most times I usually have a BRD or a RNG for Hunter's, if I don't have either then I might use Sushi(with the exception of if there's a SAM I'd probably just use SAM roll, TP gain is generally good enough to make up for only hitting around 75-80 Acc to me. If I'm using like Fighter's + Chaos I might go with Sushi, since DA sucks w/ Joy and I'd need all the help I can get to keep up with the rest of the DDs.

[Loren]

Sushi is good if you have a lot of Haste gear for rapid Joy TP. Not everyone goes this route since Dusk is expensive and Barb Pants are rare, but it's an option.

If your TP set is more Acc-based (like mine) then meat is viable as long as you accomodate it:

- Don't use Coffinmaker-- it's an excellent weapon for fighting chariots, mindflayers, etc. but if all your TP is coming from melee then there's no reason not to use Martial-- accurate Slugs and powerful Detonators.
- If your acc seems shaky, use Slug Shot during Sharpshot, Detonator when it's down
- Light Gorget as soon as you can get it

This is with /RNG and Lv8 gun merit.

WS gear is:
Tricorne, Suppa/Hollow
Denali jacket / Crimson F.G. / Rajas + Breeze
Amemet+1 / Warwolf / War Brais+1 / Denali feet

Working toward: Buccaneer Belt, Skadi pieces

[Starr]

I've done it on Birds with Chaos/Hunters and only using Detonator, doubt it'd beat full Haste with Sushi and Slug Shot but my Elvaan lax Swift Belt and Barbossa's so I dunno.

[sephir]

Ive done it. But the lack of acc can get annoying. We do not have an A skill in marksmanship or sword, so its hard for us to really accomidate the loss of acc from Sushi. If you want to use it try putting a Hunter/Chaos on you. Ive tried it, but I will stick to Sushi, its much more consistent.

[Kylen]

In response to the OP, no, in 90% of situations I can't get away with using meat on COR. A lot of the time it's not about my WS accuracy, either, since as Callisto stated we can always fall back on Detonator if our Slug accuracy isn't up to par.

For me the major drawback to meat is the plunge that my Joyeuse accuracy takes; with B- sword skill, even the +22 acc. from /RNG isn't enough to make my Joytoy accuracy acceptable against, say, Nyzul birds. I suppose it would be ok if I had Hunter's Roll or Madrigal, but in most parties the melees will be asking for different rolls/songs.

The nice thing about sushi is that it gives enough extra accuracy that we can get away with subbing out melee acc. gear for Haste gear, or use different subjobs besides /RNG and still maintain an acceptable hit-rate. I sometimes sub /WAR these days when I exp on birds, and while it's not up 100% of the time the +atk. from Berserk more than makes up for the lack of meat, and my melee and Slug rate are still perfectly acceptable with sushi.

As for the difference between Detonator and Slug Shot, at low to moderate r.atk levels you're not going to see more than a 100-200 damage difference between them. If I'm Slugging for 800, my Detonators will likely be doing 650-700. If I'm Slugging for 1300, my Detonators will be doing 1100. The difference becomes much greater however with a lot of r.atk; with double Minuets, Chaos Roll, and Berserk on my Slugs were doing 1900-2200 damage while Detonator was still only 1300-1400.

[Darus Grey]

In general if you want a strong RATK build for cor your gonna be better off using Sushi and subbing war.

Theres very few situations where your gonna have enough acc for a meat build to work as well as something else.

[Zarath]

stuff

I've been wanting to use my /war but my /rng is already bad enough lol... I hate birds since I deal waaaaay too much damage on them with my haste joytoy build =/. I've out parsed (when I actually have my filters down for the sake of curiosity) or matched a lot of average geared DDs with my build so it does get troublesome lol, and I simply can't DD with gimp DDs especially.

I ate meat once, didn't like it, something about being a huuuuuuge MP sink with my /rng and doing up to 1450 on mamools lol... yea I kinda sorta died shortly after I got WSed in the FACE.

[Falisa]

I'm a little confused about the pDif and base damage cap in your post Zarath. I know nothing about ranged WSs and such Just kinda load up on RACC for my COR on WS. If I was trying to reach the pDif cap would i want to sacrifice pieces for ratk? Such as wearing Shikaree aketon and war brais? I probably wouldn't go for this gear set though.. Gearing up STR seems like it would be better in my eyes. Was just curious about the ratk thingy.

My current WS gear is
joyeuse for TP / Martial gun
Tricorne/Spectacles/Vision Earring/Beaters
Pahluwan/Deadeye gloves/Behe ring/Rajas
Amemet +1/Gun belt/Denali/AF feet

Yeah my WS setup needs alot of work.. I hate Seiryu And my earrings im kinda waiting for better gear for the other slots before I try out mods in those slots. Also about the gorgets, are they really worth it over spectacles/PCC? I've always read that those were better for multi-hit WS than the gorgets, or is it different for ranged WS? Sorry so clueless on this.

[Zarath]

Simply put it's pretty much ur

(your ratk / mob's defense) * lvl difference

Since it has a direct collation with WS damage (Damage = Base Damage * pDIF) you more bang for yoour buck than improving Base Damage, however since it does have a cap it's easier to maximize this side of the equation with buffs and what not. Since our rank is B without merits, we have a large potential to improve pDif (essentially, it's reallllly hard for us to cap it in any circumstance) and since we have a high base damage already set, pDif improvements, even .1 of one, equates to a big improvement in damage.

Slug shot isn't a multi-hit WS, it's a hit or miss WS (it's a big misconception with slugshot, it's not 5 shots), it's a single shot at 5x damage + WS bonuses. So essentially you just want to have enough acc to hit it often enough while maximizing on STR, AGI and R. ATK.

Essentially, it's a lot of experimentation. I'm a mithra so my AGI is already stupid high and can bank more on ratk and str modifications. With marksmanship you want to just have enough STR to hit the 0 point of fSTR since the degradation at lower points has a huge impact on WS damage, why banking on AGI only has limited output till you start putting in some STR to offset this.

Soooooooo the tl;dr version is:

Look at kylen's damage difference between detonator and slugshot, the reason why slugshot has a much higher damage is cause he has capped his pDif value and slugshot has a higher fTP mod and why the difference between damage becomes greater with more ratk is due to this.