Demo's AV Attempt #3.

[Clynt]

I still firmly believe that a resist build wouldn't be the way to go on AV. It just wouldn't be consistent enough, in my opinion. I think the best way to go is just full magic defense/-% magic dmg taken. It'd be a lot more reliable, and with the right setup I'm sure you could bring the damage down a LOT.

[Stromgarde]

You could be right, but at the same time there's one important factor you need to keep in mind: of the things you're going to be hit with, only Aeroga IV will get through consistently, and unlike giga/terraflare, even if you fail to resist it completely it's not a one-shot kill. At any rate, there's not enough data from AV regarding resist rates yet, so at the very least it's worth a try. Not like you can't carry both sets and switch to MDB if resist fails, after all.

[Velocy]

Got a question for the Kujata people, I'd like to know something...

I think it could be possible, that using the corresponding 2 HR just makes it wear off for AV?
Meiko Siushi(sp?), Invinvible, Astral Flow, Chainspell, Manafont as examples... all are 30 sec up.

I wasn't able to see it in any videos yet, when you invincibled corresponding to AVs, noone did melee damage (PLDs always attacked for 0 damage, regardless of inv.) and the shield bash came 38 sec after AV used invincible. And when he chainspelled and manafonted, I didn't see anyone reacting to it in the logs.

So, have you noticed if this could be true, or bullshit?

What brought me to that thought is one of the SE videos where AV used Astral Flow which got countered by a SMN, and I didn't see any Avatar getting out (like Kirin for example who can almost instant Astral Flow). But someone said Astral Flow just gives 300 TP to the pets, which I cannot confirm as my AV experiences are very limited.

[Max™]

Someone in the big monster thread reported that during an early attempt to Kclub zerg him, they waited for Hundred Fists, as it's a good 45 seconds of non-casting/WSing, just straight melee.

They lined up, were all set to go, and as soon as they popped Blood Weapon it seemed to turn off his 2hr. In other words he went back to casting/meleeing and raped them.

Perhaps firing a 2hr completely besides the one currently active can/will cancel his current 2hr?

Might be that the incidences where we saw the same 2hr firing off were just coincidence from the spam, if using one 2hr can dispel his current.

Would be fairly testable at least, during PD or Invincible, pop a different 2hr entirely and then just try to hit him.

[*Shinzon*]

Got a question for the Kujata people, I'd like to know something...

I think it could be possible, that using the corresponding 2 HR just makes it wear off for AV?
Meiko Siushi(sp?), Invinvible, Astral Flow, Chainspell, Manafont as examples... all are 30 sec up.

I wasn't able to see it in any videos yet, when you invincibled corresponding to AVs, noone did melee damage (PLDs always attacked for 0 damage, regardless of inv.) and the shield bash came 38 sec after AV used invincible. And when he chainspelled and manafonted, I didn't see anyone reacting to it in the logs.

So, have you noticed if this could be true, or bullshit?

What brought me to that thought is one of the SE videos where AV used Astral Flow which got countered by a SMN, and I didn't see any Avatar getting out (like Kirin for example who can almost instant Astral Flow). But someone said Astral Flow just gives 300 TP to the pets, which I cannot confirm as my AV experiences are very limited.

It astral flowed and did nothing, But then again its only pets are the Wynavs which we were manaburning down anyway.

As far as 2houring and canceling his, thats what I've been trying to have people test. Its the one theory that we could not verify or disprove last night because we could not match perfect dodge.

[nekoshoonen]

Someone in the big monster thread reported that during an early attempt to Kclub zerg him, they waited for Hundred Fists, as it's a good 45 seconds of non-casting/WSing, just straight melee.

They lined up, were all set to go, and as soon as they popped Blood Weapon it seemed to turn off his 2hr. In other words he went back to casting/meleeing and raped them.

Perhaps firing a 2hr completely besides the one currently active can/will cancel his current 2hr?

Might be that the incidences where we saw the same 2hr firing off were just coincidence from the spam, if using one 2hr can dispel his current.

Would be fairly testable at least, during PD or Invincible, pop a different 2hr entirely and then just try to hit him.

If the Blood Weapon thing really did happen this sounds plausible, however SE "Spamming two-hours" could simply them "masking" which 2hour blocks which.
This is testable however would take a bloody long time. still worth testing Blood weapon Vs Hundred Fists for replicability. if that works then we're on to something. If it doesn't then the whole theory falls apart since i doubt very much the 2hour u need to use is /random/ it would be either any 2hour or a specific one.

Only issue with this theory is what about the instant JA's? EES/Mijin/Bene/Call Wyvern.

/speculation on
Here, I'll go out on limb, and please forgive that this part isn't related to something that as yet i can ask anyone fighting AV to try out.
In the other thread someone mentioned the Mana Tap type 2hours (we all know SE has used those for specific Quests {SCH}). maybe 2hours can be subdivided into categories : Manatap type (i.e Manafont, Chainspell), Defensive (i.e. PD, Invinc) Stat Buffs (Mighty Strikes, SV, Meiko) Direct Damage (Mijin/EES) Pet type (AF/Call/Familiar).
(not saying these are specifically the right categories) Maybe these Types of 2hours are in fact the Virtues : 15 jobs 7 types of Abilities? and those lock each other or could work like and elemental wheel.
/speculation off

[rex_garuda]

I posted the chat log recorded by Logger plugin on the video thread.

http://www.demols.com/forums/viewtop...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[Velocy]

Okay, the only problems (or maybe logical fault) in my theory is:
1st: Why SE uses multiple 2HR and same 2HR from different people (in english Vid when AV 1st 2HRed, many people used SV for example).
2nd: Why they use Benediction and Call Wyvern (Instand use skills that can't "wear off").

One possibilty that would explain the 2nd could be nekos speculation:

/speculation on
Here, I'll go out on limb, and please forgive that this part isn't related to something that as yet i can ask anyone fighting AV to try out.
In the other thread someone mentioned the Mana Tap type 2hours (we all know SE has used those for specific Quests {SCH}). maybe 2hours can be subdivided into categories : Manatap type (i.e Manafont, Chainspell), Defensive (i.e. PD, Invinc) Stat Buffs (Mighty Strikes, SV, Meiko) Direct Damage (Mijin/EES) Pet type (AF/Call/Familiar).
(not saying these are specifically the right categories) Maybe these Types of 2hours are in fact the Virtues : 15 jobs 7 types of Abilities? and those lock each other or could work like and elemental wheel.
/speculation off

Another thought of mine:
AV is heavy elemental based. Nuking with same Element (and I think Skillchaining was stated, too) can kill or slow his regen. Possibly you just need to use an 2HR of the same element, or the counter element to lock it.

[nekoshoonen]

Another thought of mine:
AV is heavy elemental based. Nuking with same Element (and I think Skillchaining was stated, too) can kill or slow his regen. Possibly you just need to use an 2HR of the same element, or the counter element to lock it.

Hmmm not in game right now and can't remeber this but do 2hours have an Elemental Symbol like a lot of other JAs/WS? is there at least one used in each segment of the video correspond to the correct elemental day?

[Cylo]

Another thought of mine:
AV is heavy elemental based. Nuking with same Element (and I think Skillchaining was stated, too) can kill or slow his regen. Possibly you just need to use an 2HR of the same element, or the counter element to lock it.

Hmmm not in game right now and can't remeber this but do 2hours have an Elemental Symbol like a lot of other JAs/WS? is there at least one used in each segment of the video correspond to the correct elemental day?

Already been covered. Get out of my darkest dreams.

[nekoshoonen]

Get out of my darkest dreams.

Don't lie. you like it.

[Valisk]

Hmmm not in game right now and can't remeber this but do 2hours have an Elemental Symbol like a lot of other JAs/WS? is there at least one used in each segment of the video correspond to the correct elemental day?

RDM Lightning
WAR Fire
WHM Light
PLD Earth
BST Light
RNG Lightning
NIN Fire
SMN Light
COR " "
MNK Lightning
BLM Water
THF Wind
DRK Darkness
BRD Light
SAM Water
DRG Light
BLU " "
PUP " "

Think people said some of the ones listed as light on this list are actually Non Elemental.

No Ice Based 2hr according to this list.

[Velocy]

Hmmm not in game right now and can't remeber this but do 2hours have an Elemental Symbol like a lot of other JAs/WS? is there at least one used in each segment of the video correspond to the correct elemental day?

According to the Kujata Chat Log (many thanks for the links) there is nothing to confirm or trash my thoughts:
AVs 2 HRs where only 2 times countered:
1st time: AV uses Perfect Dodge. All others used 2HRs, too, but noone did Perfect Dodge (or another Wind based 2HR, as there is none).
2nd time: AV uses Invincible. The Vid and Log creator does Invincible, too. But as all PLDs did 0 dmg in Melee over the whole fight, you cannot determine if Invincible was up or down after he used it.

Also, you mentioned the try to burn AV during 100 Fists phase a while ago. I am not 100% sure, but wasn't there a MNK in the Alliance using 100 fists to burn along with the DRKs?

[nekoshoonen]

Is call wyvern Light or Spirit Surge? Formulating a theory but that needs answered before i can propose it.

[Deftscythe]

It's not 2hr elements, and it never will be.

[Jojojo]

Is call wyvern Light or Spirit Surge? Formulating a theory but that needs answered before i can propose it.

Both of them are Light.

Did anyone notice that the PLD in the dev video used Invincible right before Lightningday began, then not at all during the actual Lightningday? It's like he was saying, "I won't be able to use this on Lightningday, so I'd better get this in now." This makes me think that elements are involved after all, since Earth is strong to Thunder.

Coincidentally, in the Dev video the players never used a 2HR that was strong to the element of AV's 2HR either--discounting Blood Weapon after Astral Flow, because Dark is also weak to light.

I conjecture that using a 2HR that is strong to the element of the day (or perhaps strong to the element of AV's current two-hour) then it will unlock all his two-hours.

If this has been posted already, I won't lose sleep.

[Naobi]

It's not 2hr elements, and it never will be.

Funny.... the same thing was said about using our 2hours to meet AV's >.>

Oh my bad, didn't see that you worked for SE and the Dev team. I digress....