Guilliotine Damage.

[Swatt]

Guillotine being a multi-hit WS that has peaks on double attacks/multiple double attacks, I prefer getting enough accuracy to cap/nearly cap accuracy over anything else first. My gear set accomplishes this pretty well and looks like this:

Weapon: Perdu
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Heca
Neck: Justice
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Assault
Body: Adaman
Hands: Chaos+1
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars's
Back: Abyss
Waist: Life
Legs: Black
Feet: Heca

Body: Adaman

Adaman

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/2/2...escription.png

More MND = l337 Guillotine damage. Plus I have VIT if I pull hate. You noob.

Way to go and get the colors wrong too.

but enmity means you pull hate more.
though i guess the +mp to drain it all back makes it worth it.

[Therin]

I have a few questions, too.

Would you advise Hecatomb Harness over Haubergeon/Hauberk? Same accuracy, more STR, so you're really only missing the attack and minot DEX boost. Also, ever since my Black Cuisses were ripped off, I've been using Jet Seraweels for my weapon skills. I know scythe ws have a MND boost, and I haven't noticed a real drop in my overall damage with them. This won't be a permanant thing, but for now it seems to work out nicely. Any thoughts?

Main: Perdu Sickle
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Chs. Burgeonet+1
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
L. Ear: Abyssal Earring
R. Ear: Brutal Earring
Body: Hecatomb Harness
Hands: Chs. Gauntlets+1/Hecatomb Mittens
L. Ring: Rajas Ring
R. Ring: Ulthalam's Ring
Back: Abyss Cape
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Jet Seraweels
Feet: Chs. Sollerets+1/Hecatomb Leggings

Your setup looks good, Brood. I'd drop the Seraweels as soon as possible (it can pass as a somewhat decent alternative, but the huge attack boost from Black is hard to pass up). Also, I prefer Haubergeon over Hecatomb Harness, for the same reason as above. But apart from that, your set looks great.

[Sekkite]

Why use a Perdu Sickle, Rkenshin? Isn't Death Scythe +1 better?

[Zekyr]

I was under the impression that Apoc > Tred > Perdu > all

I'd never give up my Tred for Perdu:

A) +7%~ crits is insanely huge DoT boost for high damage weapons, with the right gear I normally sit around 17-19% crits and it's VERY noticeable.

B) I don't have the time to finish all those damn assaults (read: started late, now no one wants to do them)

C) Perdu looks stupid/ugly as hell, nice little girly scythe with pretty red and gold decorations on your back

[bblazeuk]

No one mentioned amir boots which are great for guillotine if you are lacking acc, currently trying out using these over heca for guillotine acc6 att 5 amir V.S. Str 6 Dex 3. Heca still win for 1-2 hit ws though.

[BroodIfrit]

I use different scythes depending on my subjob. The accuracy and attack on Perdu is nice to have, but /SAM I find myself over 100 TP too often, killing off the latents. Martial puts out decent damage, as well as Tredicim's free criticals hits every 13th swing. Even though Death has a high damage rate, the HP drain almost always procs when I'm at full HP, so I consider it useless. When I merit on DRK I use Perdu, which just means I spam weapon skills to keep the latent effects, so I end up doing a lot of Seigan/Third Eye tanking.

[Raen Ryong]

Hecatomb will do more damage assuming the accuracy deficit doesn't prove too bad. WSing in ~18+ more acc than I TP in from head and waist alone at the moment means that I can safely afford this, since I sit ~90% during TP anyway.

I own both Perdu and Tredecim, and have found Perdu does more damage if you can afford to spam it / are not on lolimps. The Tred's critical is nice, but I find the attack/accuracy and lower delay (while still having same number of hits to 100% TP assuming you don't completely miss a Guillo) pushes its overall DoT above Tredecim. Death+1 has nice base damage but that's all it has going for it; the acc/atk should outweigh that.

And I like the look of Perdu

[RKenshin]

About the only things I cant decide on is body piece (Hauby? Heca? Homam?) and waist (Warwolf maybe better).
Amemet+1 > Foragers, Bomb Core > Bomblet are other minor upgrades.

As an aside from that, heca or homam for 300% SATA WSes (spiral/ground strike)? Heca has the STR mod going for it, which would be an improvement to all WSes, but Homam carries that magical triple proc chance which is a huge boost as well.

Difference is going to be marginal either way, but I'd probably go for Hauby. Life belt is a good piece for getting accuracy up as well, no shame in using it.

Homam is only a 2.5% TA chance which in reality is more like 2% with no guarantee to land all hits. It will result in a really high damage WS but rarely, so aside from the epeen screen shot it's nothing too special. For SATA WS I'd definitely choose Heca though. Even with Algol.

but enmity means you pull hate more.
though i guess the +mp to drain it all back makes it worth it.

Exactly.

Why use a Perdu Sickle, Rkenshin? Isn't Death Scythe +1 better?

I've never used Death Scythe+1 however I'm doubtful as to whether it would be the better option. I'd have to say if anything it's between Tred and Perdu.

I've used both but I have to side with Perdu. Eating meat all the time the accuracy is always worth having, and all together accuracy and the attack double to help with WS damage/TP gain and DoT. Tred's critical hit-rate is good for DoT as well but regardless the critical hit damage will always been the smallest part of your parse. All together I come out in favor of Perdu.

How can you hate the model though!?

[Indalecia]

Ok, this is driving me crazy. Why the abyss cape? I can kinda/sorta see going abyss cape with chaos +1 head, but wouldnt Foragers/amemet +1 with O.hat give better returns?

[RKenshin]

Ok, this is driving me crazy. Why the abyss cape? I can kinda/sorta see going abyss cape with chaos +1 head, but wouldnt Foragers/amemet +1 with O.hat give better returns?

Abyss Cape + Heca Hat vs Forager's Mantle + Optical Hat?

~18 acc, 11 STR, 5 DEX, ~8 Attack vs 10 acc, ~17 attack, 3 STR

Which comes down to:

~8 acc, 8 STR, 5 DEX vs 9 attack

Choice is rather easy?

[Indalecia]

Specifically said no heca hat, don't have that, but kinda get where your going.

[RKenshin]

I didn't see you say it wasn't an option, but I thought more than that you were just wondering over why I chose a certain pairing of gear.

[tonic]

for me it wasnt an option ^^; kinda like Ebody my ls does not camp kings .. sadly; - ; tho we do do everything else soo anything thats not off a king i can get. btw i will soon have Ares's Cuirass is the 12 str vit and 24 att going to be better for WS? btw indal love ur sig ^^ i'ma upload mine...

[BroodIfrit]

Basically I use Abyss Cape because of the +7 Weapon Skill accuracy. This allows me to sacrifice accuracy somewhere else (ie, using a Warwolf Belt over a Potent/Life Belt). For all single-hit weapon skills I use a Forager's Mantle in place of the Abyss Cape, but with the same setup. (Hecatomb Leggings over Chs. Sollerets+1 for Greatsword weapon skills)

[Jyoshi]

read somewhere (i think randomer thread) that ares is slightly better than black cuisses.
6str 6dex ~5att ~5acc 2% DA -3mnd -3int vs 4str 14att
which comes down to:
2str 6dex ~5acc 2%DA -3mnd/int vs 9att

the 9 att really buff up guillotine that much that all the other stats only make it slightly better? or is the -lol3MND make it that its an even bigger difference? since im gimp and dont have homam pieces, i would love to replace my black cuisses with ares legs for tp and ws if it were worth it.

stack of wamoura cloth is 2.5k
imp gold piece is ~8k a piece (on AH) so 80k
so for 82k you can sell black cuisses for 700k and make profit (assuming you can get the 3 pieces from salvage)

[Zekyr]

Huge wall of text incoming.

About the only things I cant decide on is body piece (Hauby? Heca? Homam?) and waist (Warwolf maybe better).
Amemet+1 > Foragers, Bomb Core > Bomblet are other minor upgrades.

As an aside from that, heca or homam for 300% SATA WSes (spiral/ground strike)? Heca has the STR mod going for it, which would be an improvement to all WSes, but Homam carries that magical triple proc chance which is a huge boost as well.

Difference is going to be marginal either way, but I'd probably go for Hauby. Life belt is a good piece for getting accuracy up as well, no shame in using it.

Homam is only a 2.5% TA chance which in reality is more like 2% with no guarantee to land all hits. It will result in a really high damage WS but rarely, so aside from the epeen screen shot it's nothing too special. For SATA WS I'd definitely choose Heca though. Even with Algol.

I have no idea why I completely forgot the cape carries WSacc +7 in addition to the acc +7, that definately means I'll be changing to abyss + chaos+1 head (no heca yet) when it ever decides to drop for me.

I know you said homam's a tiny shot (2.5%) at activating, but with a 4 hit WS doesn't that increase chances up to around 10% that a TA will launch off? Assuming capped acc (for simplicity), with another 7% (/nin, /sam, /thf) or 17% (/war) shot on each hit totaling a 28%/68% shot (this is sloppy math, I know, I'm not taking several factors into account, in class right now) of DA added as well, doesn't this basically mean that on average 1/10 of your guillos will TA at least once (totaling 6 attempted hits), and 1/4 or 2/3 of your guillos will DA at least once? Basically all coming down to it that an increasing total percentage of your WSes attempt to put out more than the original 4 hits?

Not just asking because I like seeing the epeen damage, but a 1/10 shot at attempting a 6 hit guillo isn't that bad, considering I probably use 10 guillotines in less than 5 minutes in most situations. Having one of my WSes do two more attempted hits in that timeframe would be more than welcome, but not if the amount of damage I lose versus hauby per 4 hit WS on the other 9 is more than I gain in a TA attempt.

Just asking because I know DA and TA gets much more noticeable the higher you stack it. It's insane when you watch a DRG/WAR sitting around 24% DA and getting fighter's roll hitting DAs as if he was using a Love Halbred. Am I wrong in assuming multihit WS take a multiplicative property with DA/TA factor? i.e. If you theoretically had 25% DA in gear/traits somehow, wouldn't 100% of your guillotines over time attempt at least one DA? Obviously some will not attempt at all, and others will attempt 2 or more, but averaging over time, just saying wouldn't you see an equal number of DA attempts (again assuming perfect acc so you could test) with the number of guillotines?

If my math is completely off, please feel free and correct me, I'm all for bettering my jobs. But I thought Homam would basically be a 10% shot at a guillo per use, not even considering DA, which already seems to go off fairly often even /sam (which I am most of the time, my tanks can't even begin to hold hate with /war in 90% of cases). I know DA and TA aren't additive, and consider each other when calculating the chances of going off. But I'd be mighty happy with a 10% TA and 28% DA chance per guillotine I do (upped to 36% if ares legs) as long as the damage increase over time from extra hits are higher than the loss of atk and str on hauby.

I know you'll never have perfect acc, and thanks to your handy sheet you made it's brutally obvious how much more often you stand a chance of whiffing with more hits. However, the misses over time should be the same (i.e. if you do 100 4 hit WSes and 80 5 hit WSes you should miss the same amount of hits, right?) so simply putting out more total hits in a shorter span of time can't be bad, right? In the brief example I just said, you'd have the same number of misses in 80 WSes instead of 100, but then you still have 20 more WSes in the same time period to do more damage after that.

I think I'm not going crazy here, feel free to jump in x_x If you need me to try and clarify my train of thought more just ask.

Anyways, duly noted on the 300% thing, 2.5% (5.5% with algol) probably just isn't enough of an increase over heca over time, and since you SATA in full STR it's not even guaranteed you'll land the extra two hits even if they did go off.

Why use a Perdu Sickle, Rkenshin? Isn't Death Scythe +1 better?

I've never used Death Scythe+1 however I'm doubtful as to whether it would be the better option. I'd have to say if anything it's between Tred and Perdu.

I've used both but I have to side with Perdu. Eating meat all the time the accuracy is always worth having, and all together accuracy and the attack double to help with WS damage/TP gain and DoT. Tred's critical hit-rate is good for DoT as well but regardless the critical hit damage will always been the smallest part of your parse. All together I come out in favor of Perdu.

How can you hate the model though!?

Because it's so... tiny... and colorful... and unimposing x_x It looks like something a little girl BLM would carry around on her back for formal ceremonies and never actually use in battle (yes Gadalar is a pussy) and I don't know never really appealed to me. I enjoy the huge scythe model on demonslicer/death/tred much more, even over the sickle/zaghnal models, it's much more imposing and seems to match the job more, as well as the heavy armor we wear. I've never had an acc problem with tred and eat meat with it all the time, and even have tried builds using claymore grip and other misc pieces to push crits even higher with fairly nice results (usually involving pulling hate purely via melee, and god forbid I actually WS) so I don't have a problem sticking with it, if I ever finish assaults I'll probably pick one up just to compare but right now I don't even get it as an option.

Still hate the look though

[Lukias]

Why use a Perdu Sickle, Rkenshin? Isn't Death Scythe +1 better?

I've never used Death Scythe+1 however I'm doubtful as to whether it would be the better option. I'd have to say if anything it's between Tred and Perdu.

I've used both but I have to side with Perdu. Eating meat all the time the accuracy is always worth having, and all together accuracy and the attack double to help with WS damage/TP gain and DoT. Tred's critical hit-rate is good for DoT as well but regardless the critical hit damage will always been the smallest part of your parse. All together I come out in favor of Perdu.

How can you hate the model though!?

Because it's so... tiny... and colorful... and unimposing x_x It looks like something a little girl BLM would carry around on her back for formal ceremonies and never actually use in battle (yes Gadalar is a pussy) and I don't know never really appealed to me. I enjoy the huge scythe model on demonslicer/death/tred much more, even over the sickle/zaghnal models, it's much more imposing and seems to match the job more, as well as the heavy armor we wear. I've never had an acc problem with tred and eat meat with it all the time, and even have tried builds using claymore grip and other misc pieces to push crits even higher with fairly nice results (usually involving pulling hate purely via melee, and god forbid I actually WS) so I don't have a problem sticking with it, if I ever finish assaults I'll probably pick one up just to compare but right now I don't even get it as an option.

Still hate the look though

Honestly after what...4 years of wearing the same fucking black scythe model that you get at like level 50, I'd rather wear a pink vibrating dildo with sparkles shooting out followed by a galka shouting "Gay Pride."

Back to the point, I parsed Tred (My friend) vs. Perdu (me) in merit parties alot....and I mean alot. The average crit bonus from the Tred compared to my crit on Perdu usually averaged around 3.5~% more on the Tred (due to the fact that you actually have to hit that 13th hit), but my dot numbers and over all dmg destroyed him. I believe the 11 attack and 5 acc matched with the lower delay makes a huge difference, especially since I keep 6 hit with it. One thing to think about is that sure if you hit ever hit that you will do more dmg on that 13th hit, but what about the other 12? Also if you crit'd on the 13th hit but so did another person with perdu, just destroyed the reasoning to wearing it. You can't say that the scythe is a 7.6% increase of crit, cause thats saying that no other weapon crits on the 13th hit.

Other thing to note: I had ebody he had hauby+1 but he always souleater guillotine while I never used it. Also had the same amount of haste.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Back to the point, I parsed Tred (My friend) vs. Perdu (me) in merit parties alot....and I mean alot. The average crit bonus from the Tred compared to my crit on Perdu usually averaged around 3.5~% more on the Tred (due to the fact that you actually have to hit that 13th hit), but my dot numbers and over all dmg destroyed him. I believe the 11 attack and 5 acc matched with the lower delay makes a huge difference, especially since I keep 6 hit with it. One thing to think about is that sure if you hit ever hit that you will do more dmg on that 13th hit, but what about the other 12? Also if you crit'd on the 13th hit but so did another person with perdu, just destroyed the reasoning to wearing it. You can't say that the scythe is a 7.6% increase of crit, cause thats saying that no other weapon crits on the 13th hit.

Other thing to note: I had ebody he had hauby+1 but he always souleater guillotine while I never used it. Also had the same amount of haste.

Just because he only got 3.5% greater crits than you means jack shit. Only equal parse is on the same person with the same gear set. Hell, the 4 dex from your ebody vs the hauby + 1 could put you in a different crit tier.

[RKenshin]

Huge wall of text incoming.

I know you said homam's a tiny shot (2.5%) at activating, but with a 4 hit WS doesn't that increase chances up to around 10% that a TA will launch off? Assuming capped acc (for simplicity), with another 7% (/nin, /sam, /thf) or 17% (/war) shot on each hit totaling a 28%/68% shot (this is sloppy math, I know, I'm not taking several factors into account, in class right now) of DA added as well, doesn't this basically mean that on average 1/10 of your guillos will TA at least once (totaling 6 attempted hits), and 1/4 or 2/3 of your guillos will DA at least once? Basically all coming down to it that an increasing total percentage of your WSes attempt to put out more than the original 4 hits?

9.27% chance of TA'ing once in the 4-hit WS, but this is assuming 100% accuracy. With 90% accuracy, it is reduced to a 4.93% chance to TA once as well as land all hits.

With 17% DA, it's a 39% chance of DA'ing once. 23% chance overall to DA and land all hits with 90% accuracy.

It's insane when you watch a DRG/WAR sitting around 24% DA and getting fighter's roll hitting DAs as if he was using a Love Halbred. Am I wrong in assuming multihit WS take a multiplicative property with DA/TA factor? i.e. If you theoretically had 25% DA in gear/traits somehow, wouldn't 100% of your guillotines over time attempt at least one DA? Obviously some will not attempt at all, and others will attempt 2 or more, but averaging over time, just saying wouldn't you see an equal number of DA attempts (again assuming perfect acc so you could test) with the number of guillotines?

68.36% total chance to DA at least once with 25% DA in a 4-hit WS. .39% for 4 DA, 4.69% for 3 DA, 21% to for 2 DA, and 42.19% chance for 1 DA.

Which yes, calculates out perfectly to one DA every WS.

[Lukias]

Back to the point, I parsed Tred (My friend) vs. Perdu (me) in merit parties alot....and I mean alot. The average crit bonus from the Tred compared to my crit on Perdu usually averaged around 3.5~% more on the Tred (due to the fact that you actually have to hit that 13th hit), but my dot numbers and over all dmg destroyed him. I believe the 11 attack and 5 acc matched with the lower delay makes a huge difference, especially since I keep 6 hit with it. One thing to think about is that sure if you hit ever hit that you will do more dmg on that 13th hit, but what about the other 12? Also if you crit'd on the 13th hit but so did another person with perdu, just destroyed the reasoning to wearing it. You can't say that the scythe is a 7.6% increase of crit, cause thats saying that no other weapon crits on the 13th hit.

Other thing to note: I had ebody he had hauby+1 but he always souleater guillotine while I never used it. Also had the same amount of haste.

Just because he only got 3.5% greater crits than you means jack shit. Only equal parse is on the same person with the same gear set. Hell, the 4 dex from your ebody vs the hauby + 1 could put you in a different crit tier.

I think you missed my point. And also no ebody doesn't push me into a new crit tier, I tested both out and compared them on myself. Sorry if I should of said that before.

But I think showing that he only has 3.5% over me on crit% from like 5 months of merit testing is a bit more than jack shit.