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  1. #1
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    I am going to begin the painstaking process of summarizing that (as of now) 57 page thread for your viewing pleasure. It is the least I can do, considering while all you guys are out there actually fighting it, I'm cheering from the sidelines asking you to test crackpot theories. So, without further ado, here we go:

    For this class you will need the following materials:

    http://www.playonline.com/ff11de/downlo ... /AV_DE.asx
    http://www.playonline.com/ff11fr/downlo ... /AV_FR.asx
    http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/downlo ... /AV_EN.asx
    http://www.playonline.com/ff11/download ... /AV_JP.asx
    http://www.stage6.com/user/eander/video/2217135/ (Combined SE videos)
    (These videos are not a step-by-step instruction manual.)

    http://www.demols.com/videos/AV3.avi (Demo's AV attempt on Kujata)
    http://www.demols.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=457 (Demo's 2nd AV Attempt on Kujata + Logs)



    Absolute Virtue Behavior:

    Like other CoP bosses(Bahamut II, Proto-Ultima, Proto-Omega, etc.), there appears to be triggers set at different hit point percentages. 79%, 59%, and assumably 39% and 19%.

    79% - When Absolute Virtue reaches 79% HP, it will unleash a volley of Meteors on the alliance. I do not know if it uses Manafont and Chainspell in tandem before doing this. You'll have to ask Rukenshin, as I am citing this from his experience. (Mojo, lolSky, Hades)

    59% - When Absolute Virtue reaches 59% HP, it will pull out red bracelets. These bracelets seem to affect its AI, as it it seems to use 2 hour abilities in sequences. It also becomes capable of summoning 6 wynavs instead of 3. This information comes from observations of posts from other linkshell attempts, it is not my firsthand experience. (Mojo, lolSky, Hades)

    Fighting Jailer of Love until it only spawns Ru'Phaubos reduces Absolute Virtue's Regen. From testing by lolSky on Hades on Jailer of Love, it would be logical to say that you've killed enough pets after the first 27(Enough to reach Phaubo only mode) or possibly the first 39~(What it seemed to take to completely break Jailer of Love's regen) (Mojo, lolSky, Hades)

    Absolute Virtue "readies" some 2HRs, and others he just flat-out "uses".

    Fealty may help you resist Meteor. (lolSky, Hades) Link

    Doing Tier I->II->III->IV nukes of the same day rotation seemed to lessen regen and do unresisted nukes to it (Demo LS, Kujata)

    Absolute Virtue cannot cast Meteor without first using Manafont.

    Using weapon skills, job abilities or nukes of the incorrect element appear to make Absolute Virtue 2HR immediately.

    Absolute Virtue has approximately 300% normal movement speed (lolSky, Hades)

    Absolute Virtue appears to normally be immune to all enfeebling magic, Bio and Dia wear off instantly after hate is lost although elemental DoTs will stick (need confirmation for elemental DoTs) (lolSky, Hades)

    Absolute Virtue can use all of the standard DRG aern TP moves as well as Explosive Impulse, which is a moderate damage AoE that causes Stun. However, it should be noted that Explosive Impulse can only be used under the effect of Meikyo Shisui.

    When Absolute Virtue uses Call Wyvern he will summon three (or six, depending on his HP%) wynavs. Their behavior is detailed below. (lolSky, Hades)


    Absolute Virtue's Two Hours: (Mojo, lolSky, Hades- theory in progress)
    It is my personal belief based on observation and testing that my linkshell has done that when AV uses a two hour, it can sometimes also gain job traits and abilities related to that job. An easy example of this is the ability to cast Meteor and Comet when it uses Manafont. A less known example of this is a TP Regain trait gained when it uses Meikyo Shisui. This TP Regain trait didn't go away until it used another two hour ability was used(Link), so it's hard to say how consistent the job traits are. It is remotely possible that it was using the WS in retaliation to charm, but I think it is unlikely as it would have to be job mode or day of the week related as it didn't do it after it used Chainspell.

    Here's a list of what is known, there may still be unknown traits.

    Bard
    It uses Soul Voice and gains the ability to cast Maiden's Virelai, which it will spam.
    Beastmaster
    The wynavs become stronger.
    Black Mage
    It uses Manafont and gains the ability to cast Comet and Meteor.
    Dark Knight
    It will use Blood Weapon.
    Monk
    It uses Hundred Fists.
    Ninja
    The wynavs will use Mijin Gakure.
    Paladin
    It will use Invincible.
    Ranger
    It will use Eagle Eye Shot.
    Red Mage
    It uses Chainspell and will spam Aero V, Aeroga IV, and Tornado II.
    Samurai
    It will use Meikyo Shisui and gains a significant Auto Regain trait.
    Summoner
    It will use Astral Flow. The wynavs will gain 300% TP and execute some powerful breath attacks.
    Thief
    It uses Perfect Dodge.
    Warrior
    It uses Mighty Strikes.
    White Mage
    It uses Benediction.


    Absolute Virtue's Wynavs:
    If you separate the wynavs from Absolute Virtue, they will "walk" back to Absolute Virtue and not run. (Aldaris, Garuda)

    They can cast tier IV and ga III of the spells that correspond to the current vana'diel day. (lolSky, Hades)

    They are immune to Bind, Slow, Paralyze, Stun, and Blind but ARE susceptible to Gravity and Silence.

    They have increased movement speed. (lolSky, Hades)


    Pet Peeves:

    Astral Flow does in fact, do something. It forces his Wynavs to weapon skill. (Exactly like Jailer of Love's Astral Flow)

    Your 2HRs are not reset. (Demo LS, Kujata)

    Absolute Virtue does not draw the ability to 2HR from the alliance. (SapereAude LS, Garuda) Link

    You don't lock every 2HR. In the video, Absolute Virtue 2HRs right before it dies. This is contrary to the myriad of other kills before hand, where they "locked" AV preventing it from using any 2HR, casting magic, or weapon skilling. (Any combination of the three)

    Shield Bash does in fact, go through Perfect Dodge.


    We know that:
    The developers used their 2HRs multiple times.

    The developers kited the wynavs around.

    Absolute Virtue doesn't use Spirit Surge, and instead uses Call Wyvern.

    Manafont was the only 2HR used every single time in the SE Developer video.

    Day of the week nukes do something important.

    We are aware of the seemingly unusual choices of gear by the SE Developers.

    Also the video isn't 8+ hours long, it's more likely somewhere around an hour.

    In the SE Video, Absolute Virtue READIES Chainspell at one point. This is the only time in the SE Video that AV "readies" any 2HR instead of flat out using it.

    Timeline:
    This is the time line of SE's fight with Absolute Virtue, it is very short and concise. Credit goes to Atreides of Fairy.

    1. Iceday 12:10, Call Wyvern (from English Video, part 3)
    player 2hrs used: blm, pld, smn, drg (call wyvern), rdm, brd, blm

    2. Iceday 14:42, Soul Voice (from Japanese Video, part 1 and German Video, part 2)
    player 2hrs used: blm, smn, blm, drg, brd, brd, sam, whm, blm, drk, blm, rdm

    3. Iceday 16:14, 100 Fists (from French Video, part 2)
    player 2hrs used: blm, brd, blm, brd, smn, rdm

    4. Iceday 16:55, Meikyo Shisui (from Japanese Video, part 2 and German Video, Part 3)
    player 2hrs used: blm, brd, blm, sam, drg, brd, smn, rdm, drk, brd

    5. Lightningsday 5:07 Chainspell (from English Video, part 2 and French Video, part 3)
    player 2hrs used: blm, brd, rdm, brd

    6. Lightningsday 6:50 Soul Voice (from English Video part 1)
    player 2hrs used: pld, blm, whm, blm, sam, drg, whm, smn, blm, blm, brd, drk, rdm, brd, brd

    7. Lightningsday 8:55 Astral Flow (from French Video, part 1 and German Video, part 1)
    player 2hrs used: blm, blm, blm, brd, rdm, brd, blm, drg, smn, whm, rdm, drk

    8. Lightningsday 13:55 Astral Flow (from Japanese Video, part 3)
    player 2hrs used: pld, blm, smn, brd, drg, blm, blm, pld, blm, rdm, brd, rdm


    Theories Debunked:

    Jailer Weapons

    Jobs in the zone/alliance/close to AV, having any influence on which 2-hours he will use.
    [Need help here]


    Theories Need Testing:
    Using Manafont directly after AV two hours, or a different two hour, prevents AV from using this two hour again. However, a reaction to an error such as using a wrong element of the day offensive spell opens up his ability to use this two hour again.

    A combination of two hours used in succession used after AV two hours may prevent AV from the ability to use these particular two hours on a play by play basis.

    Using no JA and WS prevents AV from using two hours, TP attacks and magic more rapidly.

    Elemental spells in accordance to day slows AV's TP regen and may also weaken his spells and abilities.

    Fighting AV at his spawn point with no Aern up without first wiping to his pop may do something.

    AV either readies a two hour or uses a two hour seemingly without discretion on which two hour it is. The difference could be caused by player action.

    AV uses two sets of two hours, reactionary and non reactionary two hours. The non-reactionary two hours are unavoidable but the reactions can be avoided.


    Using the corresponding 2 HR after AV uses it makes AVs 2HR wear off.
    [Need help here]

    Absolute Virtue & Square Enix:
    Quote Originally Posted by Excerpt taken from the 2006 VANAFESTA Talk Session at the Tokyo Game Show in Tokyo, Japan
    How to Enfeeble Absolute Virtue

    The regen effect will be cut in half by defeating as many of the Ru'phuabos, Qn'xzomits, and Qn'hpemdes summoned by the Jailer of Love as possible. In addition, using an elemental based attack that corresponds to the current day of the week (i.e. using Fire spells on Firesday) will stop the remaining regen effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excerpt taken from the July 2007 Allakhazam interview with the FFXI Development Team at the E3 Expo in LA, California
    Pikko: Chains of Promathia came out nearly 3 years ago and as of today, no linkshell has beaten Absolute Virtue without the invisible wall or the locking technique, both of which were changed. When you originally created Absolute Virtue, did you intend for him to go undefeated for such a long period of time and is he meant to be defeated at all?

    Ogawa-san & Tanaka-san: When we first designed it we didn’t design it to never be able to be defeated and we’re convinced that it can be defeated. Last year at the Tokyo Game Show hints were given and whether those were taken as hints or not, well… Some players were able to figure out some things from it but there were other hints that not a lot of people have picked up on and so its become sort of this urban myth that Absolute Virtue cannot be defeated, but it can be defeated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excerpt taken from the 2007 FFXIclopedia interview at E3 Expo in LA, California
    Absolute Virtue....

    ::laughs::: Never ask questions about Absolute Virtue :::laughs:::

    Absolute Virtue is now believed to be completely invincible. No methods have been discovered on how to defeat him, with the majority of the end-game community from North America, Japan and Europe at a complete loss as to what to try. Some minor information about his Regen was released, but it appears that he has been modified without any announcements. How can we defeat him? We've had over a year without learning his secret, it is about time some real information is released. Are there any more tips you can give us about this NM?

    We cannot give you any other tips besides if you kill the monsters around him, it will slow the regen ability.

    Do you believe it is possible to beat him?

    We haven't made it so that it's impossible. We still believe ::crosses fingers:: we still believe that there is a possibility that people will be able to defeat him. People just haven't found the right strategy. At the next Fan Festival we'll have the dev team defeat Absolute Virtue (not a good idea)... maybe some videos... no....

    Are you afraid that they won't win?

    No comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excerpt taken from the August 2007 interview of the FFXI Development Team at the Games Convention in Leipzig, Germany
    Bercus: I really need to answer that question. After 2 years across the NA, EU and Japanese player base, no one can successfully defeat Absolute Virtue. Because the problems are the 2 hours and the magic casting… the instant use of all those immense attacks. All the tips you have given in the past were about the Regen, but this is a minor issue. That´s no problem. Is there any hint you can give today or maybe at the Fan Festival? After you fixed it we can´t beat it anymore.
    Sundi: I wish we could call it fix.
    Bercus: The wall trick?
    Sundi: Yeah. You know all the hints that we already revealed.
    Bercus: That´s only about Regen.
    Sundi: Yeah.
    Bercus: The Regen is no problem. After 2 years we can´t beat it.
    Sundi: Speed.
    Bercus: The speed? How you fight it?
    Sundi: Right.

    They seem to think people don't understand their hint. It sounds like there aren't any other secrets yet people are clamoring for more hints, so they are confused.

    Sundi: We still need to fix the hint that the wait of the Regen will be decreased if you do something.
    Bercus: During the fight against AV?

    Reiterates there is a way to decrease the regen effect of AV

    Sundi: During the fight. You can almost stop regening
    Bercus: Regen is no problem!!!! The 2 hours are. Sealing the 2hours. One Linkshell did this. But they don´t know why, and we can´t practice more on AV, because AV is not a 100% pop. Jailer of Love is an easy fight.

    (I don´t think anyone knew what I was trying to ask)

    Sundi: You have to wait till the Regen is completely stopped. Regen of the HP has completely stopped.
    Bercus: Then you can stop the other abilities?
    Sundi: No. Only the speed of the Regen. At this time, by doing certain action during the fight.
    Bercus: And then the whole monster will clam down and stop using these crazy attacks and 2hours? That´s what we need to know because that´s the problem.
    Saori: There are still a few secrets.
    Sundi: Yeah.
    Bercus: You offered to maybe beat it at the Fan Festival by Development people. Is this still possible? Can you show people how to beat it at the Fan Festival?

    (I looked at Sundi who started laughing)

    Bercus: I think you brought it up right, at one Interview at the E3.
    Sundi: Possible..
    Bercus: No cheating when you do that. (everyone laughed)… normal equipment.
    Explaining the request to show players a fight against AV
    Sundi: What about not the fight, but taking a video?
    Bercus: That´s ok too. (Sundi smiled) Ok, let´s not waste all our time about AV.

    (I will E-Mail them a 20-30 question Interview after the VU and will get responds to all those questions more detailed asap, also about AV)
    THIS POST IS SOMEWHAT INCOMPLETE, I REALIZE. IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE RELEVANT AND WOULD HELP THIS POST, PLEASE SEND IT TO ME VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE AND I WILL UPDATE THIS THREAD. READING ALL SIXTY-THREE PAGES NOT ONLY GAVE ME A HEADACHE, I ALSO PROBABLY MISSED SOME STUFF.

    Thanks for stopping by, and I hope you get an A+ on your test tomorrow!
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  2. #2
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien
    Quote Originally Posted by rikkitikkitavi
    Sorry we didnt get a chance to test any AV theories yesterday, too many people had to leave do to that made-up holiday. We will resume testing next time :O
    "Sorry babe, I have to cancel Valentine's dinner, LS needs me for Absolute Virtue."

    It works, I swear.

    (now for something useful~)

    Way back in the day...was it determined that AV's max HP drops as you kill him (based on Benes at various %s), or was it simply chalked up to different AVs with different total HPs?
    Last post in the thread, carried over.
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  3. #3

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    That comprehensive video leaves out AV using Call Wyvern in the English video, plus some other things the person that made it noticed.

    http://www.stage6.com/user/eander/video/2217135/ accurately matches the timeline Ashira posted.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    edit: im blind

    Considering the current revelation of the TP Spam + TP2Hr if u nuke wrongly, the first and simplest test that should be conducted with regard to this would be:

    1) Pop a fresh new AV
    2) ONLY nuke with correct element day and no damaging WS/JA attacks.

    Does AV do TP2hr? If no, continue

    3) Start using damaging WS/JA that are non-elemental.

    Does AV do TP2Hr? If no, continue until he dies.

    ===

    A) If AV starts doing TP2Hr, stop all unnecessary actions and go back to nuking with correct day only.

    Does AV continue using TP2hr? If yes, continue

    B) When AV uses a TP2Hr, have people use their 2Hrs in reaction to it.

    Does AV continue using TP2hr? If yes, continue

    C) When AV uses a REAL 2HR, have people use their 2Hrs in reaction to it.

    Does AV continue using TP2hr?
    If no, go back to (2).
    If yes, check them against the 2HRs that your PT members used.


    Bear in mind, this needs to be a freshly popped AV. If AV is anything like the Djinn I love to mention so much, then once you set him wrongly, theres no recourse.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    to those asking about elemental seal, elegy, and if they proc on him

    i used elemental seal + elegy on him, on ice day. he did NOT react to either the use of the JA, nor the spell being cast on him

    and no, it doesn't land. me and shishioh both tried it (she's much more well-geared than my bard), we were both resisted with ES
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  6. #6

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality
    to those asking about elemental seal, elegy, and if they proc on him

    i used elemental seal + elegy on him, on ice day. he did NOT react to either the use of the JA, nor the spell being cast on him

    and no, it doesn't land. me and shishioh both tried it (she's much more well-geared than my bard), we were both resisted with ES
    perhaps things that have no direct impact on AV dont cause any action in return, ES doesnt target him and he resisted elegy so... maybe he doesnt care?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Theories that need testing:

    -Using Manafont directly after AV two hours, or a different two hour, prevents AV from using this two hour again. However, a reaction to an error such as using a wrong element of the day offensive spell opens up his ability to use this two hour again.

    -A combination of two hours used in succession used after AV two hours may prevent AV from the ability to use these particular two hours on a play by play basis.

    -Using no JA and WS prevents AV from using two hours, TP attacks and magic more rapidly.

    -Elemental spells in accordance to day slows AV's TP regen and may also weaken his spells and abilities.

    -Fighting AV at his spawn point with no Aern up without first wiping to his pop may do something.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Just putting it out there, the youtube video is of DarkHearts a Ramuh shell.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Eternallight
    perhaps things that have no direct impact on AV dont cause any action in return
    it's definitely possible, in fact the one thing I noticed while reading the previous thread and also noticed while fighting him this morning

    he only seems to REACT to JAs/spells that generate a decent amount of enmity ONTO him, aka spells that inflict DAMAGE ONLY. Flash caused no discernable reaction, resisted ES+Elegy caused no reaction. Using self-targed JA's such as those done by a THF, including Flee, caused no reaction. This leads me to believe, given the current information set, that AV doesn't care necessarily about JA usage, so much as perhaps JA usage that causes enmity BY the use of the JA (Provoke, Rampart, Sentinel, Shield Bash (damage)). I remember someone saying something about Rampart being used and he didn't react, can someone verify this?

    one thing to mention, when we started after holding him with sac's for 15 minutes, he decided to Call Wyvern on sac'r (75nin). His wynav's stayed out while he was hate-less and stationary. When we began, we had our shell leader kite AV one direction while all of our blms cast onto the Wynavs (-Ga 3's)

    they mijin'd everyone

    we reraised and tried again, and this time he didn't mijin. it's worth mentioning, prior to the Mijin, he used Meikyo Shisui before our sac died, let me explain so you understand:

    75NIN was the original Sac'r. He pulled AV repeatedly, until one point, he pulled out the Javelin and (USED, not Readied) Call Wyvern. The Sac'r died, AV went back to his stationary point. 75Nin R3'd, pulled AV again to sac, AV USED (not readied) Meikyo Shisui. Then after this, we ga'd the wynav's away from AV, and they Mijin'd. We reraised, and ga'd them again, and they did NOT Mijin
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  10. #10
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Theories that need testing:

    -AV either readies a two hour or uses a two hour seemingly without discretion on which two hour it is. The difference could be caused by player action.

    -AV uses two sets of two hours, reactionary and non reactionary two hours. The non-reactionary two hours are unavoidable but the reactions can be avoided.(Help here, I didn't fully understand this theory. The last few pages in the old thread made my head hurt.)
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  11. #11
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    I think I can say that AV will certainly keep spaming 2 hours if you didnt use weaponskills on him. When we locked him on the footprint in our first fight he kept spaming 2 hours normally, he certainly used MNK and SAM 2 hrs, dont remember if he used BLM or WHM 2 hr.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    I have a feeling all the "shenanigans" relating to the 2-hour, day/nuke timing, and JA/WS controversies will have a closely knit theme illustrating a principle for fighting AV. If we could only realize what the principle is instead of having to remember 35+ rules of engagement when taking our LS's to fight AV. I see that principle relating to the speed of the fight as mentioned earlier by SE.

    Why is it that our 2-hours affect AV's?
    Why does quick, spike damage = death?
    What are the commonailities present in all the instances when AV summons his pets?
    Or when he breaks into death-ga casting of Aero or Meteor?
    Does having certain PT members engaged effect AV in different ways?
    What's the bigger picture???

    Or is it simply a conundrum of strict unrelated rules for fighting AV?
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  13. #13
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Yes, it says "more rapidly." He certainly will not stop using them all together, I don't think that is even possible at this point.
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  14. #14

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    what im thinking is that it has to be a action that directly impacts AV for him to do something, try to use a tier 1 nuke of the wrong ele, hell even a DoT, he will respond if im right, that would explain why AV wipes so many people so fast, is the normal action to start a fight is plds voking and flashing and such, which all impact AV, as where rdms casting all those spells which spike emnity, but get resisted, had no impact and he didnt follow it up with any action
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  15. #15

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    On the subject of
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl
    Theories Need Testing:
    Elemental spells in accordance to day slows AV's TP regen and may also weaken his spells and abilities.
    In the Demo LS video, about midway or near the end of the chainspell, the surviving PLD starts inexplicably taking about 2~4% less than the predicted damage for the duration of Chainspell. Now I noticed that around that time a couple BLMs had resumed nuking it, although I doubt that is what caused it, perhaps an accessory gear swap for his Holy Circle macro (he used it in between the normal damage and the lesser damage) with something with MDB+, MDEF+ or INT+ macroed in, or INT- macroed out, or by coincidence he had eaten food with INT- like carbonara that happened to wear off at that time. If he could clear that up or someone from that LS could ask him and reply here.
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  16. #16

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Can we please lock this thread, and Have PMs sent to a mod with Suggestions that can be reviewed by people with brains and then updated here? This is already turning into the last thread.

    Edit: Vega DID NOT I REPEAT DID NOT, have any type of MDB Gear or resistance gear. He had Shellra 5 and the Aegis for a total of 50% Magic reduction.
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  17. #17

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by *Shinzon*
    Edit: Vega DID NOT I REPEAT DID NOT, have any type of MDB Gear or resistance gear. He had Shellra 5 and the Aegis for a total of 50% Magic reduction.
    Good to know, did he happen to macro in any INT+ or macro out any INT- gear with Holy Circle, or had he eaten carbonara or another food with INT- that happened to wear off mid-chainspell?
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  18. #18

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    I'll find out the food, if any and I'm pretty sure he didn't swap any gear except shield equipment and haste gear.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Should add all of the SE hints to that first post Rocl...

    Here they be:

    Fight speed is wrong

    JoL pets, Elemental day nukes > Regen

    Q: So, simply put, how do you keep Absolute Virtue from using his two hours?
    A: His two hours are directly tied to the number of monsters remaining.

    Q: Do you mean the other Jailers? Do they need to be popped and killed during the Absolute Virtue Fight?
    A: No *laughs* common monsters, ‘aren for example

    Q: What about spell effects like Meteor and Comet?
    A: You can’t do a thing about that, if your skilled you might be able to avoid* it, but it will be extremely hard.

    Absolute Virtue....

    We cannot give you any other tips besides if you kill the monsters around him, it will slow the regen ability.

    At the next Fan Festival we'll have the dev team defeat Absolute Virtue (not a good idea)... maybe some videos... no....

    Are you afraid that they won't win?

    No comment.

    edit: Also, god strike me down for suggesting this, I wonder if he might have his own Hate system that goes up and down by what we do and when capped he gets the ability to stack 2hrs and spam ridiculous insta-death moves.
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  20. #20

    Re: Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

    Another test:

    Using specific WS elements to trigger TP-2HR's and see if there is a relation between the WS's primary SC element and the element of the (TP)2HR used.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

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