Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

[Eternallight]

can anyone confirm/deny that when AV uses a 2h, the 2hs used following to him, are not picked when he does his next 2h?

that may be the last key to the puzzle, as apparently

spells of same element = AV plays nice (mostly)
bracelets on AV = can beat the crap out of him with melee (saw some screens somewhere)
if the last thing that can be managed would be which 2h he picks, i think you got a win... a very long boring win, but a win none the less

[Ethican]

we tried av like 6-8 months back. and we had about 6-8 blms outside alliance while we passed av through 4 different parties and tried to kill of wynav sets while holding av in an alliance. the idea was if each party could hold av for 2 mins and used rr's we could unweak by the time av was to be rotated back to the parties unweak. and eventually our blms ran out of mp. and then things went outa control. we were hoping that we could kill around 16 sets of wynavs on av to lock the regen and or abilities without losing hate on av. I have no idea where the number 16 came from. I wasn't the one making the strat.

[souleman]

From OP..

Theories Debunked
Jobs in the zone/alliance/close to AV, having any influence on which 2-hours he will use.
Need help here

I just want to point out that this has NOT been debunked in any way shape or form.

2 different arguments have been used to debunk this
1> Demo getting hit by EES. There is a rng in the area.

2> French video getting Hundread Fists. This is only shown from 1 view. We can not see what is behind the camera.
From Rocl's post showing the Aern's in zone:
14'aern MNK 17'aern
15'aern BLM 16'aern
16'aern RDM 15'aern
17'aern THF 14'aern
18'aern NIN NONE
These are the aern that pop in the same spot. It is completely possible that 14'aern (Mnk) was up at the time and still within range, just not shown on camera.

[Rocl]

Wait, what? That one is specifically talking about "If you put a WHM out of party by AV it will gain access to Benediction" "If you put a WHM in the AV alliance it will gain access to Benediction"

Are we talking about players (which the OP is) or are we talking about aerns? They are too very different things.

[Avelain]

can anyone confirm/deny that when AV uses a 2h, the 2hs used following to him, are not picked when he does his next 2h?

sure, i can try atleast
remember, i posted the logs of our fight a few posts up so if you have any questions you think you can solve yourself feel free to do so

here's AV's first 2hr used when we were fighting him

[01:18:30]Absolute Virtue uses Invincible.
[01:18:32]Absolute Virtue casts Aeroga IV.
[01:18:32]Agris takes 751 points of damage.
[01:18:32]Trelution takes 1045 points of damage.
[01:18:32]Dejan takes 1185 points of damage.
[01:18:32]Xantrailles takes 924 points of damage.
[01:18:33]Dejan casts Cure IV.
[01:18:35]Dejan uses Invincible.

Dejan, one of our PLDs, was the first to 2hr after AV's invincible.
The next 2hr AV used, according to Agris's (the other tank's) log, AV used Familiar next. We had no BST there.

[01:19:56]Absolute Virtue uses Familiar.
[01:19:56]Pet's powers increase!
[01:19:56]Siresativa casts Utsusemi: Ni.
[01:19:56]Siresativa gains the effect of Copy Image.
[01:19:57]Dejan casts Utsusemi: Ichi.
[01:19:57]Dejan gains the effect of Copy Image.
[01:19:58]1 of Agris's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.

After that familiar, I was the first one to 2hr with soul voice:
(You'll notice the big time delay, at this point we weren't really trying to watch 2hrs and counter, we were trying to stay alive)

[01:20:04]Avelain uses Soul Voice.
[01:20:04]Courtney starts casting Cure IV on Dejan.
[01:20:04]Andreas was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[01:20:05]<Arcien> cant debuff them too
[01:20:05]Sabia starts casting Cure V on Trelution.

And the next 2hr that AV used was blood weapon:

[01:20:48]Absolute Virtue uses Blood Weapon.
[01:20:48]Sabia casts Shell IV.
[01:20:48]Dejan gains the effect of Shell.
[01:20:48]The Aern's Wynav hits Kisada for 205 points of damage.
[01:20:48]1 of Siresativa's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.

[fallenleaf]

What kind of success have people had killing 2 of the wynavs and kiting/holding one? I dont recall AV calling them back while any remain alive.

I feel like i'm going to get shat on for asking this.

[Avelain]

What kind of success have people had killing 2 of the aerns and kiting/holding one? I dont recall AV calling them back while any remain alive.

I feel like i'm going to get shat on for asking this

I'm not quite sure, but I do know that around 50% or so he can call up to six even if three are already out.

[fallenleaf]

What kind of success have people had killing 2 of the aerns and kiting/holding one? I dont recall AV calling them back while any remain alive.

I feel like i'm going to get shat on for asking this

I'm not quite sure, but I do know that around 50% or so he can call up to six even if three are already out.

Would this be if 3 of the old wynavs were out? Does wynav behavior/level change at all when he goes from 3 to 6?

What i'm asking is if say 5 are out can he call 6 more? I've never seen AV to this stage on sylph is why i ask.

[Ethican]

Minor thing, he calls wynavs not aerns. The aerns people are talking about are the ones in the area where he is popped. keeping them down possibly has an effect on av in some unknown way.

[fallenleaf]

Minor thing, he calls wynavs not aerns. The aerns people are talking about are the ones in the area where he is popped. keeping them down possibly has an effect on av in some unknown way.

Shit sorry, yes meant wynav, i'll edit

[Zoot]

We noticed a huge correlation between the aerns actions and also their existance and when AV would use a two hour or manafont. In fact, two of the manafonts happened exactly as an aern in the ??? area popped. We were thinking perhaps this was linked to the job of the aern which had just popped, but it was not - the Aern that popped before the last Manafont was NIN/Something

[Chalis]

I think the sac holding is what's screwing us. Like many have posted above it is very possible that you lose all of your progress from the JoL fight when he regens a tic. It's also possible that he has multiple stages that he can get pushed into, maybe even more then just Docile, Bracelet, and Charlie Manson mode. We need to get some screenshots of a group fighting him as soon as he spawns to see if his behaviour is any different or maybe even more patterned then random.

yesterday we went 0/3 on AV. everyone we held jol at 1-2% redoing the alliance with the proper tanks/support/melee/blm set up's. killed the ??? Aerns and then would kill jol. the idea we had going was to engage it as soon as it pop's much like they show in the video. we had 10-12BLM outside with brd/rdm support to handle Aern repop's and Wynav's. the inside blm where going to nuke with element of the day. melee where going to do nothing but attack. also removed all weapons with enspell's Haute/Algol ect. after AV's 1st 2hr the idea was for everyone with hate on AV was to use there 2hr. we had a outside BLM and WHM that where to do nothing to AV. after the 1st set of 2hr's they where to be brought in to replace a WHM and BLM inside the main alliance for safety reasons if a 2hr would go off again. wich it seam's from most ppl attempts that spaming 2hrs after AV does not actually lock or stop him from using them at all.

the last idea we had wich come from one of the other ls members was to make sure everyone had a 2hr macro to spam after every time AV used a 2hr. the idea was that some ppl in the alliance would get back there 2hr for just a short period of time maybe 3-5sec to relock AV from using them again. this came from 1 the idea that does Se really expect us to fight AV for 8hrs or whatever since the video shows it going from ice>thunder>back to ice. and in the video the 1st time AV 2hr's 16 2hrs go off. the 2nd time AV 2hrs 3 2hrs go off. and the 3rd time AV 2hrs 7 2hrs go off. and both ppl that are in the 2nd and 3rd group where also in the 1st group. weather they had unlimited 2hr usuage to prove some form of a point or not im not sure but was just something else we where going to test. but as said before we went 0/3 and couldnt test anything then a GM showed up to laugh at us :D anyways this was just the plan we were going to go with probally going to give it another try next friday. hope some more is figured out by then. good luck

[Reposado]

People are using this "Lock" word far too aggressively. The dev team and in Bercus' interviews have told us that AV's 2 hours were never meant to be "Locked" and that it was a glitch.

[souleman]

Wait, what? That one is specifically talking about "If you put a WHM out of party by AV it will gain access to Benediction" "If you put a WHM in the AV alliance it will gain access to Benediction"

Are we talking about players (which the OP is) or are we talking about aerns? They are too very different things.

My original post (in the other thread, that was supposedly dubunked using the examples I stated above), was about any jobs in the area. Doesn't matter if its Aern or PC.

If its just Aern, then AV would never have access to EES because there is not a rng Aern that pops there. If its just PC, then AV wouldn't have access to hundreadfists in the SE video.

I would guess its based on a certain range from AV, and not even sure the person has to be on the hate list to get it from PC (or maybe being on the wynav hate list counts or something).

[Seditedi]

From OP..

Theories Debunked
Jobs in the zone/alliance/close to AV, having any influence on which 2-hours he will use.
Need help here

I just want to point out that this has NOT been debunked in any way shape or form.

2 different arguments have been used to debunk this
1> Demo getting hit by EES. There is a rng in the area.

2> French video getting Hundread Fists. This is only shown from 1 view. We can not see what is behind the camera.
From Rocl's post showing the Aern's in zone:
14'aern MNK 17'aern
15'aern BLM 16'aern
16'aern RDM 15'aern
17'aern THF 14'aern
18'aern NIN NONE
These are the aern that pop in the same spot. It is completely possible that 14'aern (Mnk) was up at the time and still within range, just not shown on camera.

Not trying to be an asshole, but that theory that AV has access to jobs fighting it was a VERY early theory about AV's 2 hour usage, it was debunked a very long time ago.

[souleman]

My point is that it never really was debunked. Yeah, Demo didn't have a RNG in aliance, but there was one in the area. SE didn't have a MNK, but we can't see whats behind the camera (ie, possible Aern).

The theory is not only the jobs in the aliance that is fighting it. It is about both people and mobs in the surrounding area.

[Massimo]

My point is that it never really was debunked. Yeah, Demo didn't have a RNG in aliance, but there was one in the area. SE didn't have a MNK, but we can't see whats behind the camera (ie, possible Aern).

The theory is not only the jobs in the aliance that is fighting it. It is about both people and mobs in the surrounding area.

Stop.. Players' jobs doesn't have any influence on AV's 2-hours.

Just ... stop.

[AsuraSoup]

A quick note about the Aern's around AV.

My memory isn't so great, so I apologize for the lack of detail.

Quite a few months ago, my linkshell attempted AV. We went in thinking that killing all of the Aern's in the area would lock his 2h.

After JoL was defeated and AV popped. Held AV and killed the 15 (I think it was 15) Aern's in the close area. We left members to watch for repops and kill them as soon as they did. All 15 were dead at one point in time, and all 15 were not up at one point for the remainder of our attempt.

If I recall correctly, AV still managed to mame us using 2h's. I recall SAM 2h, I'm sure their were others.

Not sure if this is of any relevence now, but figured I would mention it.

The biggest problem we ran into while doing this was keeping all the Aern's down, and still having enough manpower to handle the anoying birds that AV pooped out to aga us.

[Mojo]

My internet is dead at the moment, I don't know when it will return. I'm posting from a library right now. Just a few things to add~

To begin with, I think that when coming up with this theories, try not to look too deeply in to one thing that happened in the log or in game. It seems to me that people jump to conclusions based on something they observe and then create a theory from that. When more research is done and holes begin to appear in the theory, it is either ignored or the theory is patched up. The result is often something very deviant and nonsensical. All I'm trying to say I guess is that coincidences happen. Now for a few theories.

The theory about AV only having the two hours of the jobs around it doesn't make much sense seeing as how on many occasions, people have held it with just BRD + level 1 mule and it still has access to seemingly every 2 hour.

Any kind of aern theories fail to properly take the facts in to account. If you take a good, hard look at the aern data I sent Rocl(thanks for posting!), you would see that there are only 3 aern pops with 5 possible jobs near the JoL ???. Even if you extend the aerns to all of those in the nearby area, there still isn't an aern for every job. Any kind of "AV would only have these abilities if Aern X is Y" theories lack cohesion because of this.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I just think it would be wise to try and approach AV with as much factual information as you can. It seems like when most people attempt to discuss any kind of aern theory, they use giant blanket statements that are not very specific. "Did you try killing the aerns?" Which aerns and where, for how long, under what circumstances. This is the kind of information that needs to be included otherwise the result is meaningless.

Edit:

In regards to Fealty. It seems that it's a 90% reduction from non elemental damage, although this is just a loose estimate. I whole heartedly believe that AV can be held without a wipe under any circumstances. It would require that you move it to the Palace entrance as Meteor range seems to be 25-30(larger than casting) but it can also be avoided by a difference in height. The 8-1 platforms are not high enough. My linkshell is planning on attempting such a hold in the near future(possibly two weeks from now), during which Call Wyvern will be popped after every 2 hour AV uses. Hopefully it will lead somewhere. If anyone wants to beat us to it, feel free.

[Seditedi]

My point is that it never really was debunked. Yeah, Demo didn't have a RNG in aliance, but there was one in the area. SE didn't have a MNK, but we can't see whats behind the camera (ie, possible Aern).

The theory is not only the jobs in the aliance that is fighting it. It is about both people and mobs in the surrounding area.

The theory that jobs fighting it affected 2 hour usage was debunked multiple times..
The aerns surrounding has not been debunked yet, but jobs fighting it definitely has been.
The video even proves that seeing how AV doesn't use Manafont and BLMs are obviously casting on it.