Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

[Suiram]

I think Aegis PLDs with a decent MDB set are a better choice than RDMs.
-50% magic damage taken with just Shell V puts them at the cap, then can use MDB everywhere else.
Also have more HP than a RDM tank.

One thing to consider is that people claim that the Lv70 latent earrings will activate when the damage done would put you into the latent conditions. I tested this once to be false (although now I can't remember if I took care to be sure that my TP wasn't 100% or higher), but that was with the BLM one and not the RDM one and it's possible (however unlikely) that they are programmed differently, or that I made the TP mistake. In any case that's magic damage -30% and would easily make a RDM comparable or superior to an Aegis PLD just in terms of taking magic damage if it does indeed work that way.

[Rocl]

so, AV used Manafont without Chainspell being active, always thought those 2 go together?

I don't know if anyone else answered you, since I just wanted to respond to this.

He only does 2HRs in "sets" once he's in Bracelet Mode, before that he uses them all one at a time.

[Shinsei]

After our first ever Jailer of Love attempt which took us far longer than we'd originally expected, Absolute Virtue decides to come up and say hello. Since we totally weren't expecting it to pop and most of us clueless as to what to do against him, we did various other things to it as it proceeded to rapestomp us. Here's the log of the (very short) fight. Here's to hoping that maybe these logs will give us all even the remotest of clues as to what affects his behavior.

(note: Not all chat filters were off)

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Not trying to disrespect or anything, but the mages in your linkshell sure do not listen....

Based on a comment saying "water only" I'm going to guess it was watersday, yet there were blizzards and thunders going off <.< I notice someone got some enspell type thing going off in every ss, holy bolts?

[Spira]

The range of spells and abilities that AV reacts to is intrigueing.. It seems ANYTHING of the wrong element that targets him and doesnt resist will result in reactionary TP or TP2HR. Spell-casting might be reactionary, seeing as how sometimes he spams Aeroga IV. I didn't watch the videos that clearly, sorry if this isn't true. I think he only reacts to wrong elements as long as they target him and not otherwise...?
It seems like his fight is meant to be extremely structured...

Anyway, his AI draws similarities to the AI of Djinn, who react to wrong element damage cast on them - they gain massive TP and new TP moves..
and also with Colibri, who magic-counter any spells that succeed in landing on them, but nothing that resists.

In this case, we probably should be able to single out a number of moves that can be used on any day to gain hate with AV because he would definitely resist them. I'm pretty sure the Sleep range of spells work because he probably is 100% unsleepable. Low accuracy enfeebles probably work well too.

And then in order to do damage to him, everything from the current day element. Spells are much easier to discern, but abilities and WS would be slightly trickier. Perhaps a list of 'JA/WS elements is in order' - the Sea Gorget relations to WS might be linked to AVs elemental behavior.

Also, something that might be worth testing is that I'm not sure if AV mirrors the AI coding of Djinn/Colibri, because for Djinn/Colibri.. if they aren't the main target of AoE spells (regardless of element/resist) they don't react as they usually would. It might not be that useful, but could perhaps provide with a means to damage AV through nuking the other Aerns claimed within the same alliance, nearby.

[Muirlyn]

You have to fight AV the same way he’s fighting you.

That means, everyone that is fighting him, has to use a 2 handed weapon like AV is, that’s why SE had their PLDs and everyone else using staves, they could have given their PLDs an Aegis but they didn’t. The only people with no 2 handed weapons were the camera ppl. DDs were SAM, DRG, DRK – experts in using 2 handed weapons, that’s why they didn’t bring NINs, BSTs, RNGs or WARs.

Whenever you WS AV, he will counter it with a TP attack. Go try using a WS on AV while he’s sitting at the spawn point, he will counter that. Everytime I / someone WS’d him, he used one back. (edit: look at Stanislavs screenshot, AV pop > Spirits within > AV wing thrust without having TP. Also at the end of the SE Video, DRK WS > AV WS. I could post more screenshots...)

Nuking the wrong element of the day doesn’t make him go crazy, I have a few month old screens where I was nuking a different element of the day and he would never counter it back with a TP attack or a 2h, he’d just melee me down. It’s just coincidence that he reacts to some wrong spells, same thing with Dia. There were times where people spammed Dia and AV wouldnt do anything, other times he would use something right after every 2nd Dia that was casted on him.

He might counter negative JA’s, I’m not sure about this since I havent looked much into it.
Most of that stuff is just coincidence, when you’re spamming a spell every second on him he’s gonna use a 2h or TP attack at one time because he feels like using it, doesn’t mean it was countered by a sleep2 that hit him at the right moment...

Treat AV like he’s treating you. Use 2 handed weapons, don’t use WSs or negative JAs, use 2hrs whenever he uses a 2h and make nukes corresponding to the day, at some point he will most likely stop spamming all that nasty stuff – like Sundi said... - and hopefully also Manafont and Benediction. Fight him where the Dev-team fought it, keep the Aerns dead and pull the Wynavs away from the main alliance.
I meantioned this before, SE held them (either all of them or only one) with 3x BRDs, a WHM and a RDM(puller). Since the RDM pulled 3 of them away and 30mins later you could still see the RDM kiting one with gravity. They didn’t kill them because they only had 4 BLMs there, or they killed 2 but I doubt it. I don’t know how the they held all 3 though, maybe ES + Horde Lullaby, did anyone try if this works?

Use the only things AV is able to use (duh no gear change...I think that’s irrelevant though) and he won’t rape you.

Just copy SE’s fight and you might make some progress.

[Rocl]

That means, everyone that is fighting him, has to use a 2 handed weapon like AV is, that’s why SE had their PLDs and everyone else using staves, they could have given their PLDs an Aegis but they didn’t. The only people with no 2 handed weapons were the camera ppl. DDs were SAM, DRG, DRK – experts in using 2 handed weapons, that’s why they didn’t bring NINs, BSTs, RNGs or WARs.

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[Shinsei]

You have to fight AV the same way he’s fighting you.

That means, everyone that is fighting him, has to use a 2 handed weapon like AV is, that’s why SE had their PLDs and everyone else using staves, they could have given their PLDs an Aegis but they didn’t. The only people with no 2 handed weapons were the camera ppl. DDs were SAM, DRG, DRK – experts in using 2 handed weapons, that’s why they didn’t bring NINs, BSTs, RNGs or WARs.

Whenever you WS AV, he will counter it with a TP attack. Go try using a WS on AV while he’s sitting at the spawn point, he will counter that. Everytime I / someone WS’d him, he used one back. (edit: look at Stanislavs screenshot, AV pop > Spirits within > AV wing thrust without having TP. Also at the end of the SE Video, DRK WS > AV WS. I could post more screenshots...)

Nuking the wrong element of the day doesn’t make him go crazy, I have a few month old screens where I was nuking a different element of the day and he would never counter it back with a TP attack or a 2h, he’d just melee me down. It’s just coincidence that he reacts to some wrong spells, same thing with Dia. There were times where people spammed Dia and AV wouldnt do anything, other times he would use something right after every 2nd Dia that was casted on him.

He might counter negative JA’s, I’m not sure about this since I havent looked much into it.
Most of that stuff is just coincidence, when you’re spamming a spell every second on him he’s gonna use a 2h or TP attack at one time because he feels like using it, doesn’t mean it was countered by a sleep2 that hit him at the right moment...

Treat AV like he’s treating you. Use 2 handed weapons, don’t use WSs or negative JAs, use 2hrs whenever he uses a 2h and make nukes corresponding to the day, at some point he will most likely stop spamming all that nasty stuff – like Sundi said... - and hopefully also Manafont and Benediction. Fight him where the Dev-team fought it, keep the Aerns dead and pull the Wynavs away from the main alliance.
I meantioned this before, SE held them (either all of them or only one) with 3x BRDs, a WHM and a RDM(puller). Since the RDM pulled 3 of them away and 30mins later you could still see the RDM kiting one with gravity. They didn’t kill them because they only had 4 BLMs there, or they killed 2 but I doubt it. I don’t know how the they held all 3 though, maybe ES + Horde Lullaby, did anyone try if this works?

Use the only things AV is able to use (duh no gear change...I think that’s irrelevant though) and he won’t rape you.

Just copy SE’s fight and you might make some progress.

Either you never read anything or just like to re-iterate what's already been said/tried

some little facts/info

- People have tried killing the aerns, (they've even tried holding them
- People have been trying to pull the wynavs away, (some even tried killing them)
- People have used 2hrs when AV 2hrs numerous occasions.....and noone has seen any result from that yet, not debunking this yet but
- AV can still 2hr even without using any JA/WS...
- Noone has been able to prevent the assraping stick that is manafont-meteor from occuring (given they survive long enough) which is one of the main reasons to cause a wipe from AV.

[Nagamaki]

I think Aegis PLDs with a decent MDB set are a better choice than RDMs.
-50% magic damage taken with just Shell V puts them at the cap, then can use MDB everywhere else.
Also have more HP than a RDM tank.

One thing to consider is that people claim that the Lv70 latent earrings will activate when the damage done would put you into the latent conditions. I tested this once to be false (although now I can't remember if I took care to be sure that my TP wasn't 100% or higher), but that was with the BLM one and not the RDM one and it's possible (however unlikely) that they are programmed differently, or that I made the TP mistake. In any case that's magic damage -30% and would easily make a RDM comparable or superior to an Aegis PLD just in terms of taking magic damage if it does indeed work that way.

This is somewhat off topic, but since it was brought up and could be a legitimate gear choice for CS tanking if it worked, I think its worth a single post.

Reading about the latent made me want to try and confirm it, so I forked out the big bucks and bought a Medicine Earring (4k). Its not a Fencer's Earring, but really doubt they would make them activate differently, I guess its not completely impossible, but it certainly isn't very likely. Medicine is -30% to all damage, so to avoid having to do too much calculation and comparisons, I went with a known quantity damage source, 1000 Needles.

A- I put on some HP gear on WHM/PLD for 1268 total HP and pulled a Sabotender. Melee'd it to below 25, made sure my TP was well below 100% and starting Dia spam. 1000 Needles, 1000 damage, dropped to 268/1268.
B- I cured myself to 750 HP then repeated the TP feeding, next 1000 Needles at 764 HP for 1000 again.
C- I figured I should make sure I wasn't messing up the latent activation somehow so after RR/unweak. I pulled another and repeated the process. 1000 Needles with 225 HP did 703 damage.

A shows that the latent does not activate even if a damage source will drop your HP below 25%.
B shows that the latent does not activate even if a damage source will drop your HP below 25% while applying the 30% reduction.
C shows that the latent does activate when your current HP is below 25%.

So either Fencer's is coded differently or it just doesn't work that way, and the odds of it being the former are pretty slim.

Aside from that though, you don't need to be an Aegis PLD or use any HP latent items to cap MDT-, it really isn't that hard for most jobs as long as you have Shellra V included. An Aegis PLD will be able to keep more HP and/or MDB gear on while doing it so its certainly the best case scenario, but any tank can do it without D.ring or Aegis.

[Muirlyn]

some little facts/info

- People have tried killing the aerns, (they've even tried holding them
- People have been trying to pull the wynavs away, (some even tried killing them)
- People have used 2hrs when AV 2hrs numerous occasions.....and noone has seen any result from that yet, not debunking this yet but
- AV can still 2hr even without using any JA/WS...
- Noone has been able to prevent the assraping stick that is manafont-meteor from occuring (given they survive long enough) which is one of the main reasons to cause a wipe from AV.

I have read every post on this forum that was about AV and have watched all the videos at least 20 times. I have also fought AV more than you can think so please don't tell me what I read and what not.

What you're saying has nothing to do with my post. I have never mentioned that AV would stop using 2hrs, he's not. Did I say anything about " just pulling the Wynavs away and pull till you die..." or hold AV at 100% and use 2hrs to without acting on it? This wouldn't matter anyway since he won't stop using his 2hrs when you use them wich you could see in the SE Video. So please read my post again.

Hints were given step by step and you have to use them step by step, that's why we need to copy their fight. No one did this and no one has held 1/3 Wynavs to see if he AV was still poping more.

After all their hints are used AV "might" stop using his nasty stuff. What I'd try is, fighting him at the spawn point > using 2 handed weapons only, no WS/JA > nukes corresponding to the day > 3~ people 2h everytime AV 2hrs, then ones his regen has completely stopped we'll know more and hopefully AV won't Manafont till then and people will stay alive until all this is done, cause this was all we've got to see in the Video.

Now my only question is, did or can anyone try using ES+Horde Lullaby on the Wynavs?

[sunb1ind]

To be honest, most of these theories sound dumb, but I'm still tryin to figure out why SE was whackin on AV with a bunch of staffs. The 2hd-theory that was just posted isn't unreasonable to try out imo. I don't know why I keep seeing PLDs engaged to AV with swords in the first place.

Irregardless, verdict still stands: SE devs are a bunch of dumbasses who probably get off at watching their complex sodomy machine creation in action, instead of actually providing worthwhile content. Then End.

[Seditedi]

Iirc the Medicine Ring for 10% cure potency only works if you are in yellow HP(read this somewhere not sure where and never tested myself so if it's wrong then sorry), whereas Sorcerer's Ring will work if you are less than 75% HP of your total prior to convert HP->MP gear. It's possible the earring is coded differently but probably not.
If it is coded differently then yes RDM would beat Aegis PLD tank hands down due to MDB trait.

@Stanislaw's screenshots, no offense, but your linkshell is full of complete idiots.

[Guitarman]

To the LS's that have fought AV these past few days:

Did you guys -aga JoL's sharks? Or were they fought one at a time?

Edit:

wiki has a transcript of the chat log in the dev team fight. Could be useful to further dissect what they did.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Absol ... r_Strategy

[Stanislaw]

@Stanislaw's screenshots, no offense, but your linkshell is full of complete idiots.

No offense taken. I don't think even half of the members in the LS even read the AV thread, so I don't blame them for acting clueless when AV popped. We'll try a more organized attempt next time around.

To the LS's that have fought AV these past few days:

Did you guys -aga JoL's sharks? Or were they fought one at a time?

Not sure if it makes any difference or not, but in our Jailer of Love fight we -aga'd the Sharks whenever they popped, and the fight lasted for about 2~2.5 hours (in addition to an earlier wipe) due to it being our first ever attempt. When AV did pop I think I've only seen one 2h go off (Call Wyvern) but a lot of different TP moves... although that was probably because we weren't prepared in the slightest and used a whole slew of wrong magics/JAs. I couldn't tell if we've killed Regen or not because we were doing so many wrong things to it, but despite the pathetic damage we were inflicting on it it didn't Regen back to 100% and stayed at 99% (at least that was the case until I bit the dust myself and was unable to check the HP% of AV).

[Suiram]

Aside from that though, you don't need to be an Aegis PLD or use any HP latent items to cap MDT-, it really isn't that hard for most jobs as long as you have Shellra V included. An Aegis PLD will be able to keep more HP and/or MDB gear on while doing it so its certainly the best case scenario, but any tank can do it without D.ring or Aegis.

I agree, but the statement I was more providing for was the 2nd one, that Aegis PLD can cap TMDA with only Sub and Shell, so that they can put in MDB and HP in other slots, compared to another job that would have to use most of their slots to cap magic damage taken. Although RDM at 75 has I think 14 MDB? So it might still be comparable even if they need to spend most of their slots on m. damage taken. Thanks for testing the earring thing anyway.

Edit: Wrote the wrong kind of reduction, nobody saw that.

[Seditedi]

Only 12 MDB, on another thread I think we determined the best possible MDB setup for a PLD with Aegis would yield like +19 MDB. So actually yea RDM may come out on top if it can get +7 MDB as well as capping -% MDTA.
About to go to sleep so too lazy to look up the possible combinations.

[Lordender]

could always throw a cor in for magus roll as well >.> not sure how effective it would be though since i havent tested it.

[Suiram]

Assuming people double-up on low values, it's MDB+10~25 without a BLU in PT. Haven't tested it with BLU yet (meant to a while ago but lost track of it) but if it follows the standard "opposite-of-bust" pattern it'd be MDB+18~33 under the same assumptions.

[Shinsei]

some little facts/info

- People have tried killing the aerns, (they've even tried holding them
- People have been trying to pull the wynavs away, (some even tried killing them)
- People have used 2hrs when AV 2hrs numerous occasions.....and noone has seen any result from that yet, not debunking this yet but
- AV can still 2hr even without using any JA/WS...
- Noone has been able to prevent the assraping stick that is manafont-meteor from occuring (given they survive long enough) which is one of the main reasons to cause a wipe from AV.

I have read every post on this forum that was about AV and have watched all the videos at least 20 times. I have also fought AV more than you can think so please don't tell me what I read and what not.

What you're saying has nothing to do with my post. I have never mentioned that AV would stop using 2hrs, he's not. Did I say anything about " just pulling the Wynavs away and pull till you die..." or hold AV at 100% and use 2hrs to without acting on it? This wouldn't matter anyway since he won't stop using his 2hrs when you use them wich you could see in the SE Video. So please read my post again.

Hints were given step by step and you have to use them step by step, that's why we need to copy their fight. No one did this and no one has held 1/3 Wynavs to see if he AV was still poping more.

After all their hints are used AV "might" stop using his nasty stuff. What I'd try is, fighting him at the spawn point > using 2 handed weapons only, no WS/JA > nukes corresponding to the day > 3~ people 2h everytime AV 2hrs, then ones his regen has completely stopped we'll know more and hopefully AV won't Manafont till then and people will stay alive until all this is done, cause this was all we've got to see in the Video.

Now my only question is, did or can anyone try using ES+Horde Lullaby on the Wynavs?

learn to read, i never said anything about stopping 2hrs either, I said People HAVE been trying to use their 2hrs when AV used theirs....can you understand that simple concept? and at the same time I said we shouldnt debunk the 2hr thing though, cause maybe we are going about it wrong....


Didn't expect that was so hard to comprehend, and if u claim you actually read the thread...then you know LSes like Demo and BTL HAVE tried using no JA/WS...so I'm not sure what you're getting at

[Maytag]

What you're saying has nothing to do with my post. I have never mentioned that AV would stop using 2hrs, he's not. Did I say anything about " just pulling the Wynavs away and pull till you die..." or hold AV at 100% and use 2hrs to without acting on it? This wouldn't matter anyway since he won't stop using his 2hrs when you use them wich you could see in the SE Video. So please read my post again.

Hints were given step by step and you have to use them step by step, that's why we need to copy their fight. No one did this and no one has held 1/3 Wynavs to see if he AV was still poping more.

After all their hints are used AV "might" stop using his nasty stuff. What I'd try is, fighting him at the spawn point > using 2 handed weapons only, no WS/JA > nukes corresponding to the day > 3~ people 2h everytime AV 2hrs, then ones his regen has completely stopped we'll know more and hopefully AV won't Manafont till then and people will stay alive until all this is done, cause this was all we've got to see in the Video.

Now my only question is, did or can anyone try using ES+Horde Lullaby on the Wynavs?

Your theory doesn't make any sense. First of all, it's an illogical idea. Why would players using 2-handed weapons have anything to do with AV's strength?

Secondly, it's arbitrary. It would be an insane solution if it were really true.

But more importantly, even if were true, what effect on AV do you suppose that would have? So players use 2 handed weapons, and this somehow magically makes him "calmer?" Calmer in what way? Unless "calmer" means AV stops using Manafont, or uses a weaker form of Meteor, he is still absolutely unbeatable. So ask yourself, why would the players using 2 handed weapons have anything to do with stopping AV from using Meteor?

What happened here is that you happened to notice the devs were all using 2-handed weapons, and since you are grasping at straws, desperately trying to come up with a solution, you convinced yourself that this was it. You didn't think it through very well.

And finally to answer your question, do you honestly think no one's ever tried sleeping the Wynav's before?

[BerenTebogo]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...tthefuckup.jpg