Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

[Suiram]

Edit: Sorry the mood slime got me, but really... Just because something is your pet theory doesn't make it any less ridiculous than anyone else's theory. Not only that, but for someone who went on at length about hypotheses with verifiable conclusions, what you've essentially proposed is "First we use our 2Hs, then we see what happens" which correct me if I'm wrong not only has no verifiable conclusion, but has already been tried on multiple attempts since the release of the video.

[Maytag]

for the record that wasnt my post <_<

Oops, sorry about that. Hate it when that happens.

[Maytag]

Edit: Sorry the mood slime got me, but really... Just because something is your pet theory doesn't make it any less ridiculous than anyone else's theory. Not only that, but for someone who went on at length about hypotheses with verifiable conclusions, what you've essentially proposed is "First we use our 2Hs, then we see what happens" which correct me if I'm wrong not only has no verifiable conclusion, but has already been tried on multiple attempts since the release of the video.

You're wrong on several points.

1. This is not my pet theory. Or rather, maybe I should put it another way... if this is anyone's "pet theory," it's SE's. Square Enix. Maybe you've heard of them? They programmed the monster Absolute Virtue. They released a video saying "hey... why don't you try this?" So you see, it's not my "pet theory," it's common sense. If what was suggested by the creators of AV in the first place doesn't work, then they really are screwing with us... and this is all pointless! Therefore, it's the ONLY thing worth testing.

2. I believe I've already made a hypothesis with verifiable conclusions, and you shouldn't need me to come up with them, but if you insist I will repeat myself.

Fact: SE's video suggests we should counter his 2-hours with our own.
Fact: If the dev party was really using ONLY unlimited 2-hours and no other methods of cheating, then they had to have some extraordinary method of dealing with Meteor, at the least.

Deduction: They have an extraordinary method of dealing with Meteor, and they suggested that we counter AV's 2-hours with our own. Therefore... the reasonable conclusion is that countering AV's 2-hours is likely to be that method.

Hypothesis:

1. Try countering one of AV's 2-hours with 12-13 of our own, all different jobs.

Expected result: AV will use one of the 2-hours not used by the alliance. (There was a report by a linkshell who tried this, and apparently this is EXACTLY what happened! The next step is repeating that test in order to verify it.)

2. Try countering as many of AV's 2-hours as possible with one specific 2-hour, suggested to be Manafont.

Expected result: AV does not use Manafont. (There was a similar report from an alliance which had tried this, and apparently AV didn't use Manafont! They eventually died to the Wynavs, Manafont was not used. The next step is repeating this test, to see if the results are the same.)

Now, I'm very sorry if my post gives you "mood slime." I just don't want alliances wasting exp testing obviously bogus theories.

[skurlover]

Ho~ly SHIT no wonder you failures can't beat AV. If I had known I was amongst 3 years olds I would have never posted. I'm Soooo sorry my finger slipped. *Switches to JP forums where they know what the fuck they're talking about*

Bye.

[jaryk]

Ho~ly SHIT no wonder you failures can't beat AV. If I had known I was amongst 3 years olds I would have never posted. I'm Soooo sorry my finger slipped. *Switches to JP forums where they know what the fuck they're talking about*

The Japanese card worked like 3 years ago, doesn't really work now, they're just back to being a group of people we bombed the shit out of once.

[Suiram]

I don't know where you get this image of LSs that pop AV as just blindly following any suggestion that is posted in this thread, requiring you, The Great Rational Maytag, to separate the the good ideas from the bad ones to spare them their beloved buffers. I'd imagine most LSs, the next time they pop AV, will test their own pet theories first, and then maybe get around to yours or someone else's if they have the time and inclination--and don't delude yourself into thinking the theory you're advancing isn't a pet theory, as it is clearly based on your "pet interpretation" of what the SE video was intended to illustrate.

[Kuuhalee]

These are the six videos that I recorded from last night's LB/BBQ AV test runs. There were actually two or three more attempts, but I was either AFK or did not correctly record the attempt. I made them smaller and didn't put as much emphasis on quality ... but you can read the chat log pretty well and that's about all you really need. Also, Ventrilo voice chat was left on these videos in case there were some good ideas that needed following up on. No idea if these 'game tapes' will help out at all, but at least it is something to look at and pick apart.

The download is a self-extracting 7-zip file, as I was trying to save myself a few megabytes of space. No, there are no trojans or viruses in it. If the paranoia level gets too high, I'll just upload the videos by themselves. If bandwidth usage goes over 9000 then I might have to crush my scouter and disable the download.

AV Battle Pack - http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video ... e-pack.exe

[skurlover]

Awesome Kuuh, thanks, I'm disappointed I was offline last night.

[Mojo]

Just woke up!

I'm going to agree with Maytag in that the only part of the video that is highly suggestive of anything(besides the regen, which we already knew) is the following of AV 2 hours with player 2 hours. It has yet to be properly tested but appears to be the most important hint released by SE to date. Why discuss other topics until the significance(or insignificance) of this has been ascertained?

I've been pushing my linkshell for an attempt that will hopefully put it to rest. Among other things, the plan is to pull it to the entrance(so Manafont doesn't wipe you) and hold it through every two hour. 2 Wynavs will be held at 1% HP while the other killed as it is called. A DRG in the alliance will follow every AV 2 hour with Call Wyvern and the results will be well documented. It should do a good job at covering most rational theories about following AV 2 hours with player 2 hours.

Also, if someone from LB/BBQ could post some well written documentation on exactly what happened, it would be much appreciated.

[Mojo]

AV Battle Pack - http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video ... e-pack.exe

Can someone besides Kuuhalee verify the integrity of this? /fearofkeylogger

[quannum]

I think this thread is like that slime in the sewers in Ghostbusters II

Well you're probably feeling what AV's feeling...”Carpathian Kitten Loss" He misses his kitty! Well we'll just place one in here right by the castle

[TrogdorOfKujata]

Fact: SE's video suggests we should counter his 2-hours with our own.
Fact: If the dev party was really using ONLY unlimited 2-hours and no other methods of cheating, then they had to have some extraordinary method of dealing with Meteor, at the least.

Deduction: They have an extraordinary method of dealing with Meteor, and they suggested that we counter AV's 2-hours with our own. Therefore... the reasonable conclusion is that countering AV's 2-hours is likely to be that method.

I'm not gonna go into this as I am not a tester, but I am gonna ween this one out right now.
SE themselves didn't even do this, so it is in fact nothing to do with "Matching" our 2HRs.
(French Video, AV uses 100fister, no counter)

It might be along the lines of if you use a certain group of 2 hrs maybe he won't use that group.

Only idea I am gonna put out, and I asked shinzon about this, is doing the fight in order as SE did it. No I don't mean setup or anything, but doing the strategies in order as they are shown.

Stop Regen first, then figure out 2HR usage. Demo and others have not been positive that AV's regen was completly stopped when they attempted the 2HR's. That might be why it hasn't worked. You're not gonna stop him from 2hring, so put that idea to rest.
The reactionary theory might be dead as well, or at least a dead end for now, concentrate on locking down his regen then atempting 2hr ideas and look for an effect. That will eliminate all the other theories (Which I am guilty of putting in some craptastic ones, I'll admit) so we can attempt to make some progress. If we can't make any progress doing this, SE is bullshitting us. Period.

[Lordender]

guess the only way to find out what to do after AV's regen stopped is try to follow the same exact order(assuming one from the video is used) of 2hours for SV, Chainspell, callwyvern the video showed which is a tall order in itself but if nothing happens then you know for sure it was either bullshit or there is another peice of the puzzle missing ftl.

[TrogdorOfKujata]

Exactally. Stop his regen, don't use nukes of any other day but the day it currently is, keep AV on the ??? (Right?), Kill as many JoL pops as necessary. You might need to eat a 2HR in order to do this, it's only one, just make sure to get the regen stopped, then spam 2HR's.
I would suggest using the same 2HR's as shown in the video, but shouldn't be necessary.
At least this way we can try to figure out if:
A) This is a bogus video or not
B) If 2HR's even have an effect on AV's 2hr's (Maybe its the final lockdown on regen, and maybe even everses it? We don't know)
c) If we can move on to other theories.

This shouldn't be hard for the testers to do, no too many variables other than AV goin apeshit on you. Then we can either lay this to rest or move on.

[Seditedi]

AV pops exactly where JoL dies and upon losing all hate returns to the exact spot JoL dies, not the ??? area.
Most shells (I think) pull JoL out so you can just have a RDM/NIN or some job with Diaga pull the triple summons as they pop without hitting aerns.

We've tried this before, AV will pop and reset to the exact position Love dies at (in case of a wipe, etc.), it's kinda nice because he doesn't link the aerns from that spot.

So I'm wondering if the increase in regen people are talking about is X distance from the ??? or X distance from the position it pops at.

[TrogdorOfKujata]

I have feeling that will be very important. Thank you for clarifing that.

[Demosthenes11]

your "theory" still makes no sense. Why would you have to completely null the regen before locking 2hours? And I haven't even heard anyone else talk about it yet you are treating it like it's the only theory out there
It sucks and you have 0 evidence behind it other than "well i was thinking"

[TrogdorOfKujata]

How does it not make sense? They tell us several times that killing the regen is vital in defeating AV. Now, since everyone is saying "lolSundi" I won' go there, but it might just be a trigger. His regen dies, now we can stop other things. It isn't unbelieveable, and I don't understand why you want to kill it so quickly. It isn't nearly as hard to disprove as all these other ideas (Which I've already stated I am guilty of some retarded ones). SE showed us the video in that order for a reason, this just might be the reason. Kill the regen, Figure out the 2HR scenario, kill av. Why don't you propose a reason this isn't plausible?

[Thitaubian Seraph]

i would LOVE to see LB come on and confirm this. It would be interesting if the fight timeline went: AV: 0 regen >>> AV's nin 2 hour did 96 damage

i cant wait to see where thall lead if they confirm that timeline!

By 'explosive what ever' he meant one of AVs TP moves, not the ninja 2hour Mijin Gakure.


Edit: I don't know what happened I completely lost where I got this quote from <.<;

[Kuuhalee]

AV Battle Pack - http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video ... e-pack.exe

Can someone besides Kuuhalee verify the integrity of this? /fearofkeylogger

Blah ... I guess I'll just upload them all individually.

http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-2.avi
http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-3.avi
http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-4.avi
http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-5.avi
http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-7.avi
http://lighthouse.moofah.com/temp/video/attempt-8.avi