Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

[BerenTebogo]

Been doing the ashu talif 3 again for the first time in a while this week, and it's really made me think about some of the whacky-ass shit they do with mobs in this game, in this instance alone we have:

Imps that need to be pulled without aggro, affecting how other mob runs in its path (linear or crazy)
A captain that needs to be sneak attacked without a seperate mob seeing you
Another example of monsters with permanent 100% TP that uses TP based off a timer and a distance from the person with hate

I mean this alone, is so whacked out from normal monster situations, and really, when you look at shit like this and the 'kneel to avoid AoE deathga' from Odin (kneel??? KNEEL? WHAT THE FUCK) among the other crazy shit they've done recently with some even assault monsters (Hydra enters in and out of modes where if you give him TP he will flail you, 100% of the time)

With that in mind, and with all the dumbass theories I've shot down recently, I'm not here to present another theory because well, I can't bring myself to type the rancid shit of an idea that would come out of this in literary form.

It does seem though, that this might be one of those special cases, from the CoP era where they really started all the crazy shit with mobs (a giant buffalo who changes weaknesses based off a timer and hits for more damage as his HP goes down) that some idiotic, stupid, random-ass trick may be the key to it.

Is it RDM meleeing? Fuck no, but could it be a timing thing? Could it be specifically timing aern kills right before his next 2hr on the time cycle, and hope you don't get boned by repop timer? A balance of magic / melee damage, or knowing when to damage it or not? I've fought AV plenty, and I can say 100% there are no discernable modes he goes in and out of, besides bracelets, but it doesn't mean he doesnt have timed behavior patterns, and this could be another reason sac'ing could be fucking up people.

I'm really grasping at straws here, but there's been a lot of playing off AV like he's just a Tiamat on wheels, thinking somebody is going to come along with another 'hey guys, try fire resist' thing and all of a sudden he's going to be piss-easy. After reading every line of every page of all threads, I can really say, there seems to be nothing conventional about AV, and if it involves doing /surprised as soon as he uses manafont, then so be it, I'm not putting anything past SE anymore.

We won't be using our pops any time soon, since the LS isn't really for it right now, but given that we're pretty much out of solid theories to test, besides the bridge one which I would like to see, I think it's time look at the 'wtf' factor.

[Asami]

They are your right but there isnt a BLM facing it when he nukes. I am going entirely off the EU video, it may just be a coincidence, but i thought i would bring my thoughts to the thread as it appears to be dry of ideas.

Ive watched the video 50 times and cant see a BLM nuking it while facing it, if there is then please give me a time reference on the video and say who.

In the Japanese Video you can easily see BLM nuking and facing AV. The reference I can give you is the first camera zoom where the tip seems to be "Cast Baraera" and "Switch element depending on day" (Top left of screen)

An interesting note while looking for you: This HumeF(?) wearing full Sorcerer's attire is in every video, in every cut during AV. Yet they don't seem to have had any part of any camera angle at all. She happens to be zoomed in on every frame as well(other than that very same reference in the JP video I stated above). Could just be another distraction or, some Dev's cousin wanting to watch... who knows. It is odd though.

Which reminds me. Great to see you charted all those elements. Something not looked at much on any part so far. I wanted to point out an "observation" that some French posters said, wish I could find the link, it was so late at night. They thought: When you counter AV with a 2H it causes the bonus of the previous 2H to wear off. Something I have not seen suggested or looked at closely by anyone. I know everyone is busy with little time to test/observe all these crazy things. lol

I think it may be prudent for some people, or on occasion, watch the videos with this thought in mind: "The 2H spam is trying to cover up the secret, and the zooming in might be trying to distract from something on screen" lol I know people must keep looking at all angles while using scientific method, so here's another mind-set for your detective work! Good day.

[ronin sparthos]

The devs used a few characters as invincible cameras i assume, 4-5 characters as cameras total from what i see.

[Maytag]

You're absolutely right Sath... there's about a million wacky things they could make "the secret of AV." Unfortunetly if the "secret" is something obscure like that, it's incredibly unlikely anyone will ever find it until they come out and tell us point blank.

My thought process so far has been "either the video is honest or dishonest." If the video is honest, then it has something to do with countering 2-hours, and this needs to be tested further. I think there's still more room for testing this idea. However, if the video is "dishonest," and by that I mean the solution is well-hidden or not even mentioned, then I don't think we will have much luck finding it. Like you said, there's about a million things you could do with Aerns, or Wynavs, or party configuration, distance, actions, etc. So far I've been assuming the video is honest, because that's the best chance we have of figuring it out.

If I were a betting man, (and I am) I'd bet it still has something to do with 2-hour countering. I just don't think they'd release such a tricky video with a red herring like that. When SE finally gets impatient and releases a bigger clue, I guess we'll see if I'm right or not. It won't be the first time I've been wrong.

[Seditedi]

there is a specific reason AV can 'ready' or 'use' every 2hr. That is what people should be looking for.

Oh, really?

I thought when NPCs used certain 2 hours they get readied rather than used.. lol...

I don't know why people are making such a big deal about this.
Dynamis RNG "ready" EES as well, not sure of everything, but I definitely know for sure that it just depends on the 2 hour and whether AV uses or readies a 2 hour, it means jack shit to any theory about defeating it.

[Therin]

What's the windower plug-in on the last page? Just curious.

Xbox 360'd.

[ronin sparthos]

Issue is that you have cases where he 'readies' and 'uses' the same 2hours for seemingly no reason, coupled with the fact the obscure SE video only points people towards using 2hours in some undetermined fashion to prevent outright annihilation.

Absolute Virtue readies Benediction.
Absolute Virtue uses Benediction.

Absolute Virtue readies Chainspell
Absolute Virtue uses Chainspell

Why the difference is the issue, probably pivotal to solving him... there has to be a reason he readies sometimes and uses other times.

If we go purely by SEs video and the supposed hint within, then either this has something to do with how to weaken him (i.e stop the manafonts and benediction somehow/someway) and no ones figured it out or SE was just fucking with us and we'll wait another year for a hint. Everything else that people have guessed towards wasnt what SE was trying to show us in the very obscure video unless people take the zoom in on baraero as a hint.

[fuergrissa]

Follup to previous post, indicating only light/dark based system.

1 AV-LIGHT 2HR
dark dark light light light light dark
2 AV-LIGHT 2HR
dark light dark light light light light dark light dark dark dark light
3 AV-THUNDER 2HR
dark light dark light light light **switched him to dark 2HR
4 AV-WATER 2HR
dark light dark dark light light light light dark light
** put him back to light!
5 AV-THUNDER 2HR
dark light light light *keeps him light this time?
6 AV-LIGHT 2HR
dark dark light dark dark light light light dark dark light dark light light light
7 AV-LIGHT 2HR
dark dark dark light light dark light light light light dark
8 AV-LIGHT 2HR
dark dark light light light dark dark dark dark light light light

More light 2HR's used after his 2hr without going over 1 extra keeping on his light based 2hr system?

Possible indicator on how to get him back to light and or keep him light?

I havn't refrenced Every other AV fight, just the Dev Vid, this particular breakdown is In my opinion showing a very specific pattern

lightening is the 3rd strongest form of light other then light itself, and maybe is why it was done
in a 3 pattern in #5 listed above. Only saying this because I'm seeing Thunder2hr as a trigger to switch between light/dark based 2hrs

What exactly is the theory here? even though 2hr element has been brought up before and summarily shot down without much more than "I dont think they would do that" for evedence, your data appears to be just randomness.. What pattern can be taken from seemingly random mixture of light and dark's?

What I can say is that in all the video's the dev team responds with 2hr's far to quickly to have first analyzed any attributes relating to AV's previous action. In some instances thier 2hr shows in chatlog before AV's. This kinda counts against any theories that 2hr's must be used in a certain sequence, or as a specific reaction (specific 2hr -> specific 2hr).

Has anyone thought that perhaps AV might react positively to spikes in enmity over the entire pt? Could be just spamming 2hrs to keep hate spiked rather than anything else? idk, its a thought.

The only test I'm really waiting to see is the person who said they were gonna drag it over to the ramp. Maybe dragging JoL all the way over there before you kill so it becomes AV's native pop site. Obviously not likely to do anything about metor other than possibly making manafont survivable, but even if it mearly proves/disproves the link between regen and JoL spawn area it's something. Could also be a question of pulling AV away from his native spawn location (where JoL was killed) rather than being specific to the JOL pop area. Has nothing to do with the SE video, but I'm willing to bet that doing every single thing exactly as done in the video isn't going to show us much, or be the only way for a kill to be possible.

But yeah, as sath said even ranging back to Zilart expansion there are numerous instansces of mob behavior ranging into the completely bizzarre, so for people that are attempting to gain insight by trying to think like a developer, or saying "I dont think they would do that, it seems unlikely" Is not really contributing anything. IMO' as long as they are not just repeating things that have been said, somone who suggests a lame brained idea is doing more help than somone discrediting ideas simply because they seem far fetched.

[Seditedi]

Issue is that you have cases where he 'readies' and 'uses' the same 2hours for seemingly no reason, coupled with the fact the obscure SE video only points people towards using 2hours in some undetermined fashion to prevent outright annihilation.

Absolute Virtue readies Benediction.
Absolute Virtue uses Benediction.

Absolute Virtue readies Chainspell
Absolute Virtue uses Chainspell

Why the difference is the issue, probably pivotal to solving him... there has to be a reason he readies sometimes and uses other times.

If we go purely by SEs video and the supposed hint within, then either this has something to do with how to weaken him (i.e stop the manafonts and benediction somehow/someway) and no ones figured it out or SE was just fucking with us and we'll wait another year for a hint. Everything else that people have guessed towards wasnt what SE was trying to show us in the very obscure video unless people take the zoom in on baraero as a hint.

Hmm Guess I haven't seen any screenshot where it says readies CS or Manafont then. lol

[fuergrissa]

Why the difference is the issue, probably pivotal to solving him... there has to be a reason he readies sometimes and uses other times.

I'm not trying to say the idea is bogus, but could you explain why you think it is probably pivotal?

Personally I think it's probably of no consequence for a few reasons. First off the only way I can see this being incredibly important is if perhaps it was possible to lock either the readies, or the uses two hours. Otherwise I dont see how understanding the cause for this difference could be benneficial. If it was possible to lock the "uses" 2hrs, then SE did a very poor job of it in thier video as I think all but 1 in the video was "used". If it was possible to lock the "readies" 2hrs, then doing so wouldn't really even be a huge benefit, since it so rarely "readies" a 2hr move it wouldn't cut down on the overall number very much, nor would it cut down on the dangerous 2hrs such as manafont since he can still "use" them as he has done many times before.

Anyway Im just trying to get a handle on the reasoning behind saying thing's like "I think the key thing to figure out is this or that".

[Seditedi]

someone point me to a screenshot that shows me AV readying Manafont or CS please.

[Suiram]

someone point me to a screenshot that shows me AV readying Manafont or CS please.

AV readies Chainspell in the SE video, among other places. Look at 3:28 or so of the english version.

[Titanss]

someone point me to a screenshot that shows me AV readying Manafont or CS please.

Edit. Above^

[Seditedi]

I did, you don't have to repeat Suiram.. lol

[Titanss]

I skipped the post see the edit...

[ronin sparthos]

Why the difference is the issue, probably pivotal to solving him... there has to be a reason he readies sometimes and uses other times.

I'm not trying to say the idea is bogus, but could you explain why you think it is probably pivotal?

Personally I think it's probably of no consequence for a few reasons. First off the only way I can see this being incredibly important is if perhaps it was possible to lock either the readies, or the uses two hours. Otherwise I dont see how understanding the cause for this difference could be benneficial. If it was possible to lock the "uses" 2hrs, then SE did a very poor job of it in thier video as I think all but 1 in the video was "used". If it was possible to lock the "readies" 2hrs, then doing so wouldn't really even be a huge benefit, since it so rarely "readies" a 2hr move it wouldn't cut down on the overall number very much, nor would it cut down on the dangerous 2hrs such as manafont since he can still "use" them as he has done many times before.

Anyway Im just trying to get a handle on the reasoning behind saying thing's like "I think the key thing to figure out is this or that".

My reasoning is because SE video only hints that 2hours have something to do with it and of all things AV has 2 ways of saying in the log that hes 2houring. The rest of SEs video that may or may not be hints are the casting of spells on the elemental days for damage (lowering regen) and using spells in a 1-2-3-4 pattern which either has something to do with the fight or was used to keep hate down to a minimum. (you can only use the days spells according to the hint so 1-2-3-4-AM-AMII makes sense, though AMIIs came after AV and SEs video was spell/JA wise in sync with the CoP era)

SEs saying the weakness is in the video so either this is a huge red herring designed to stall the playerbase further or something in the video is being overlooked or not thought out completely. The 2 ways of saying 'hey im gonna 2hour you now' seemed to be the thing that jumped out at me the most, besides the obvious barrage of 2hours used by the SE RMT-named characters which due to many peoples testing does nothing to AV so perhaps the obvious 2hour spam wasnt to be taken literally but more along the lines of some kinda unknown pattern of 2hours or simply to just shout to the playerbase 'hey, examine the 2hours further on yours and AVs end'

This is simply my opinion is all.

[A=V]

I see alot in the video, what I'm doing is trying to break it down/anyalze it in detail, as there is no obvious fix to defeating him.

2 Instances where the camera zooms in, 1 the baraera and 2 the 2hr spam festival. I think of it like a card game as far as the pattern im seeing in the light/dark combo. Heres an example.

dark dark dark dark light = AV enters dark 2hr mode if he's in light mode
dark dark light light = AV stays the same
light light light light = AV switched modes because theres not enough dark to maintain current 2hr mode

Ok, without giving people a headache, the pattern im seeing is this:

max amount of darks in a row = 4
max amount of lights = 4
there needs to be a balance with light as either a: equal amount or b: higher amount no more then by 1 2hr
here is the factual data in a more easy read:

AV IS IN LIGHT MODE USING LIGHT 2HR to start

3 DARKS 4 LIGHTS
6 DARKS 7 LIGHTS
2 DARKS 4 LIGHTS (was more then 1 over and caused him to switch to dark 2hr mode)
4 DARKS 6 LIGHTS (switched 2hr back to light mode, which he did do a light 2hr)
1 DARK 3 LIGHTS (unless this is where the camera cuts out or time is jumped this is the only
inconsistent pattern where more then 2 lights is used again and his next 2hr is still Light)
7 DARK 8 LIGHTS
5 DARK 6 LIGHTS
6 DARK 6 LIGHTS (only equal 2hr pattern, and nothing shown after (other then the next scene of AV dying)

*I don't belive the quanity of 2hr's being used amounts to anything
*I belive a rule is that no more then 4 lights in a row or darks can be used
*I belive there is a rule where a specific element 2hr can not be used where dark is the winner, example thunder 2hr followed by earth 2hr, as far as specific dark and specific light, light should be used to counter dark

What I would like to see is A: has AV always started in Light 2hr mode or dark 2hr mode?

B: can u sleep him right as he 2hr's (saw it go off in video in this fashion)

Since having specific jobs in the fight would make this uber gay, I don't see a relevence in the type of 2hr but again the corosponding element

Why zoom in on the fight during all these 2hrs if not to anyalze them. Further examinations should be
A: Why is Call Wvyrn considered a 2hr? Because its his 2hr? Any other relation to any other things he does?
B: Of course the multi-use of 2hrs

How long can you hold JOL for while killing mobs?

Also remember that im saying this is factual basedon Call Wryvern being considered a 2hr, ill have to do another with it not considered, but because its being used by players and shown in the video im assuming its correct. Hmm wasnt the 'old' DRG 2hr
call wrvern? makes sense now

[Maxxthepenguin]

I think the problem is we're looking for something that takes AV from impossible to somewhat difficult when the true answer is something that takes AV from impossible to really fucking hard. Unfortunately, it's not exactly easy to tell when that transition occurs...

[Titanss]

B: can u sleep him right as he 2hr's (saw it go off in video in this fashion)

Your theory just went poof to me as far as I'm concerned.

[Seditedi]

Immune to sleep :<