Absolute Virtue & You: A Learning Experience

[spooky]

Is it banned yet?

[Crysius]

Played with AV for just a short time last night. First off he was alone at the time of pull (No Wynav's). We only had a group of about 7 people with us for initial pull. No job abilities were used with the exception of Sentinal. Once Sentinal was used, AV immediately used Call Wyvern. To say the least we wiped at that point.

While resting up, another pld pulled AV and popped invince (He was solo). AV immediately matched him with Readies Invincable.

We re-engaged with about 16 people. Had 1 Rdm/Thf pull Flee Wynav's away. Had 3 Pld/nin's tanking. didn't seem to have all that much trouble containing him. We maintained Bar-aero, and Wind-Carol. With 175 Wind resist, Aero IV hit me for just over 1100 dmg. Easily Survivable. I had a setup for 1800HP.

3 blm's continuously used a Stone rotation on AV (Earth Day). First thing I noticed. Stone II, and III out damaged Stone IV every time.

With the small group we had, we were not able to keep Wynav's away for very long. Once they arrived back they smacked a few people and then ended the fun with Mijun. Did between 2200-4000 dmg to everyone in ally.

Not much info, but we'll be going back this week to try again with many more people.

[Hanyoko]

While I agree that the actual use of the jailer weapons on AV has no outcome of the fight; I still feel that they are one piece of the puzzle. A strangly encoded hint; Much like the elemental obi were a hint to promote the use of current day elemental magics: You dont NEED the obi to weaken AV's regen but just the 'Principle' behind how the item works. The hint from the Obi's are confirmed, but how do the Jailer weapons, virtue stones, sea gorgets, jailer torques fit into the puzzle as additional hints.

Additionally we know there is some reason they devs did 2hrs after AV did his. But lets take a step back and look at the jailers; Do they alter their behavior if players use their 2hrs immediatly after theirs? If there exists an underlying 'gimic' there is a possibily that its a trait all jailers/AV have buried in their coding.

[ronin sparthos]

[quote:qi0fr52n]:Varrin wrote:
I really, honestly, can't believe I'm about to post this... but we're already banging our collective heads against the wall, right? Right? >_>

Okay, the only reason I post this is under the assumption that SE really honestly hopes that we're clever enough to figure this out given the "clues" they've helpfully littered around the game world.

AV talks about being freed by the chains placed on him... who else has chains? I hear that Promathia dude does.


The otherwiki's description of Promathia's first form wrote:
# Chains of Apathy: targets Humes only. No effect due to the Light of Vahzl
# Chains of Arrogance: targets Elvaan only. No effect due to the Light of Dem
# Chains of Cowardice: targets Tarutaru only. No effect due to the Light of Holla
# Chains of Envy: targets Mithra only. No effect due to the Light of Mea
# Chains of Rage: targets Galka only. No effect due to the Light of Al'Taieu


Obviously the dev video is showing us something with the 2 hours and the nuking with the day's element and all that jazz, we just don't know how it all ties together. I also note that there's at least one member of every race in the dev video. Could it be possible that when a member of a particular race reacts with their 2 hour it places the corresponding chain on AV? Sounds unlikely, but I don't know the race breakdown of any of the linkshells that have tried this, and I don't know if anyone has coincidentally/accidentally done anything like this at this point.

Anyway it's easy enough to test and prove/disprove at least.

psnsonixx Wrote:

As stupid as shit like this sounds, I like it. I want to hear more about the sins, virtues, etc.. non "ffxi specific" se tends to follow alot of things from "Real life" and i think that these facts would help us in the right direction of forming more intelligent ideas. i'm all ears for that info if anyone has it.

here some info i found that might of been deemed useless.. from all the other wacked out ideas about the color of AVs 2 hour animation cloud.. i dont see how this could hurt..



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute Virtue: "At lassst the time has come...

The ssscattered fragments of my thoughtsss once again mine. Long forgotten memoriesss filling me once more...

However... these memories generate sssuffering... These thoughtsss... bring remorssse...

Tell me... for what sssearcheth thou, to travel this far? Show me... by what principlesss art thou driven?"



[Race view]
You shall be defeated by the apathy that plagues you.hume(faith)
Believing counters Apathy(uncaring).

You shall be consumed by the cowardice that binds you.taru(fortitude)
Courage counters Cowardice.

You shall be twisted by the envy that drives you.."mithra(love)
Love counters envy.

You shall be overwhelmed by the arrogance that disfigures you.elvaan(Justice)
Justice counters arrogance.

You shall be burned by the rage that controls you.galka(temperance)
Temperance counters rage.

temperanceX, JusticeX, LoveX, FortitudeX, prudenceO, FaithX, HopeO


Connection of the Torques and weapons to the corresponding race when fighting AV? AV talks about the principles of which we are driven.
When fighting in Divine might, the 5 AAs talked about the 5 things, 1 for each race, each being a feeling or emotion. Several torques
that can be obtained as well as weapons counter what was said that each race is bound by. It was said that these Emotions/feelings
that bound each race was in a sense, a chain that bound them. In CoP, it talks about how to release yourself from those chains.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

(short look @ the deadly 7 sins)
1a.Pride:A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2a.Envy:A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.
3a.Wrath:Strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire
4a.Sloth:Habitual disinclination to exertion; indolence; laziness.
5a.Greed:An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth
6a.Gluttony:Excessive eating and drinking.
7a.Lust:A passionate or overmastering desire or craving

(short look at the 7 counters to the deadly sins)
Humility:The quality or condition of being humble; modest opinion or estimate of one's own importance, rank, etc.
Kindness:The state or quality of being kind
Patience:An ability or willingness to suppress restlessness or annoyance when confronted with delay
Diligence:Constant and earnest effort to accomplish what is undertaken; persistent exertion of body or mind.
Liberality:the quality or condition of being liberal in giving; generosity; bounty.
Abstinence:Any self-restraint, self-denial, or forbearance.
Chastity:The state or quality of being chaste, restraint from desire.

Humility (counters Pride)
Kindness (counters Envy)
Patience (counters Wrath)
Abstinence (counters Gluttony)
Chastity (counters Lust)
Liberality (counters Greed)
Diligence (counters Sloth)
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Chains of (Apathy, Arrogance, Cowardice, Envy and Rage): (moves done by Promathia)
1.Apathy:lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.
2.Cowardice:lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.
3.Envy:a feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.
4.Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
5.Rage:angry fury; violent anger.


Temperance:Moderation or self-restraint in action, statement, etc.; self-control.
Justice:The quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness
Love:A profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
Fortitude:Strength of mind that allows one to endure pain or adversity with courage
Prudence:Caution with regard to practical matters; discretion.
Faith:Confidence or trust in a person or thing
Hope:The feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best

Galka(rage): Temperance
Mithra(envy): Love
Elvaan(Arrogance): Justice and/or Prudence?
Hume(Apathy): Faith and/or Hope?
Taru(Cowardice): Fortitude

In short, AV askes what priciples are we driven by. The races are driven to break the chains that bind us, to break those chains we
would need to have what would help each race break out of its own confined binding. This would make perfect sense, equipping that
jailors weapon that corresponds to the race, would then unlock the weapon's ability to chain Absolute virtue, bind it not in an extent
that it completely weakens it, but it instead binds it from using the 2-hours that correspond with the weapon.

If you notice:

Hope Staff: BRD/SMN
Love Halberd: SAM/DRG
Faith Baghnakhs: MNK/NIN
Temperance Axe: BST/RNG
Fortitude Axe: WAR/DRK
Justice Sword: RDM/THF/PLD
Prudence Rod: BLM/WHM

1. All the weapons combined cover all the non-ToAU jobs without any saying a job more then once. Meaning a good possibility of weapons
have something to do with AV. Also seeing as how the weapons are 100% drops, this also concludes that they are giving you the weapon
because it needs to be used for something. Just like when you fight gods at sky, u can gain other stuff, but they have to give u a Seal
so as to be used for Kirin. In jailors case(at beginning) Virtues and torques were rare drops(virtues not anymore) but weapons were
100% drop meaning they have more of a role somewhere.(thats my point of view).

Now that being said, locking the 2-hours could be from a few possibilities:
1. Just having it on the right race who is engaged to AV
2. just hitting AV with it corresponding to the right race
3. Using a weaponskill with it, or maybe a skillchain
4. Virtue stones may come into play, maybe everytime it tries to 2-hour, a virtue stone is used off of a weapon for the weapon to trigger
to cut off the 2-hour that corresponds to the weapon's job use for that moment.


Ppl said they used weapons and they had no real affect at all, I say the weapons are the key, but they must be used in the correct way,
not just equipped and then hope they work. The right race and such is my secpulated sight of this.


When AV is defeated, he says the following thing:
Absolute Virtue: "By thy principlesss... I have been freed by the chainsss placed upon me from time immemorial.
Thy path... extends to the far reaches of time and ssspace... But sssomeday... thou shalt reach... thy destin..."

The connection I see is this: (my info may be kinda mixed but yea)
Towards the end of ZM(DM mission), you learn of the sins that bind each race, or rather chain them. During CoP and
Promathia you learn to free yourself from those chains. When you fight AV, his memories of the past bring him pain
and remorse. He then asks What principles are you driven by. When you defeat AV, he talks about being freed by the
chains that bound him, not from. Those chains being the 7 Jailor Virtues. The key I see is Absolute Virtue was full
of pain from having the opposites of each Virtue in him, because they were sins, the 7 Cardinal Virtues were able to
supress Absolute Virtue. By defeating the jailors it releases AV from imprisonment.

Now when going to when he first appears, he says he is feeling pain from memories. These memories could be the past
thoughts of how the races were always chained down by their sins. But having defeated the jailors, the races obtained
the weapons that help them break their binds: (Mithra has envy, Love halberd breaks that chain. Taru has cowardice, the
Fortitude axe breaks that chain...etc..etc..). These weapons show the principles the Races are driven by because during
the storyline the races are driven to break those chains, to not be fated to what has re-occured time and time again. You fight
AV using those weapons that correspond to the race's opposite. Those weapons were what bound him in place, so naturally
they would bind his powers(2-hours). When he dies, he says he is freed by the chains that placed upon him, the chains were
the 7 cardinal virtues.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/quote:qi0fr52n]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...sters_logo.jpg

BUSTED

Dude, seriously. The SE video showed no virtue weapons whatsoever. Why would this theory of yours not sync with the SE video in any way possible?

[Darkevolution]

The secret is obviously clapping tarus guys.

[Max™]

Actually, the secret is clear.

You have to give Taru Warrior's a Fortitude Torque.

I will go tell my Sea shell this asap, if they give me a Fortitude Torque, I will make Mars's Rings and Aureole's rain from the fucking heavens.

[laretheo]

Ask yourself this question do you(as in your character) ready a two hour or do you use a 2hr and then ask yourself do you Use a two hour or do you ready a 2hr and you'll find out that AV has 2hr's that are weapons skill's and 2hr's that are just plain jane 2hr's.

Also on the US version of the AV video more indept look at the 2hr usage of the player's against AV. The 2hr he used was also used by one of the player's and each member's before the counter'd 2hr was used seem to get there 2hr back cuz they used it again later in the video. basically what I'm saying is to reset your 2hr you have to have the job in alliance that has corresponding 2hr everyone else blow's there 2hr and then the player with corressponding 2hr blow's there's and see if that work's. Just blowing your 2hr at random I think isn't the answer. also I feel you have a time limit on this as to as long as the 2hr is in effect with AV its possible to do this. for example****

AV uses Chainspell
???? uses invincible
???? uses benediction
???? uses manafont
???? uses eagle eye shot
???? uses Hundred Fist
???? uses Chainspell


they player's that used there 2hr before Chainspell will get there 2hr's reset.


For those interested you ready a weaponskill or job ability, you use a 2hr

[bamiman]

Played with AV for just a short time last night. First off he was alone at the time of pull (No Wynav's). We only had a group of about 7 people with us for initial pull. No job abilities were used with the exception of Sentinal. Once Sentinal was used, AV immediately used Call Wyvern. To say the least we wiped at that point.

While resting up, another pld pulled AV and popped invince (He was solo). AV immediately matched him with Readies Invincable.

We re-engaged with about 16 people. Had 1 Rdm/Thf pull Flee Wynav's away. Had 3 Pld/nin's tanking. didn't seem to have all that much trouble containing him. We maintained Bar-aero, and Wind-Carol. With 175 Wind resist, Aero IV hit me for just over 1100 dmg. Easily Survivable. I had a setup for 1800HP.

3 blm's continuously used a Stone rotation on AV (Earth Day). First thing I noticed. Stone II, and III out damaged Stone IV every time.

With the small group we had, we were not able to keep Wynav's away for very long. Once they arrived back they smacked a few people and then ended the fun with Mijun. Did between 2200-4000 dmg to everyone in ally.

Not much info, but we'll be going back this week to try again with many more people.

This in red really peaked my interest. Maybe if you use your 2hr before he gets a chance to use his he will "match" you with another "readies (insert 2hr here)" instead of AV uses (insert 2hr here). Then when you counter his "readiness" before he actually uses his 2hr, it will restore your 2hr and do some sort of preventative measures in the near future.

Either way, just really peaked my interest how he did his first then "Absolute Virtue readies Invincible". Would have to see more testing of this firsthand though and potentially in the near future i can asses this with a small crew i have built up myself.

[Iced]

I'd say lock this thread and start a new one. Seriously, 55 pages the first time full of crap, now we are up to what? 43 more? Lets start another one and see how many pages that one becomes.

If you people would read the 100 pages on this topic you would find that Jailor weapons don't do shit. You don't get your 2hr's back from AV if you counter it, yada, yada, yada.

On 1 good note. Atleast your keeping me entertained while at work with these theories.

[Lonewind]

Ask yourself this question do you(as in your character) ready a two hour or do you use a 2hr and then ask yourself do you Use a two hour or do you ready a 2hr and you'll find out that AV has 2hr's that are weapons skill's and 2hr's that are just plain jane 2hr's.

Also on the US version of the AV video more indept look at the 2hr usage of the player's against AV. The 2hr he used was also used by one of the player's and each member's before the counter'd 2hr was used seem to get there 2hr back cuz they used it again later in the video. basically what I'm saying is to reset your 2hr you have to have the job in alliance that has corresponding 2hr everyone else blow's there 2hr and then the player with corressponding 2hr blow's there's and see if that work's. Just blowing your 2hr at random I think isn't the answer. also I feel you have a time limit on this as to as long as the 2hr is in effect with AV its possible to do this. for example****

AV uses Chainspell
???? uses invincible
???? uses benediction
???? uses manafont
???? uses eagle eye shot
???? uses Hundred Fist
???? uses Chainspell


they player's that used there 2hr before Chainspell will get there 2hr's reset.


For those interested you ready a weaponskill or job ability, you use a 2hr

I believe the 2hr as AV does them has already been tested and no positive results.

[Rydir]

Ask yourself this question do you(as in your character) ready a two hour or do you use a 2hr and then ask yourself do you Use a two hour or do you ready a 2hr and you'll find out that AV has 2hr's that are weapons skill's and 2hr's that are just plain jane 2hr's.

Also on the US version of the AV video more indept look at the 2hr usage of the player's against AV. The 2hr he used was also used by one of the player's and each member's before the counter'd 2hr was used seem to get there 2hr back cuz they used it again later in the video. basically what I'm saying is to reset your 2hr you have to have the job in alliance that has corresponding 2hr everyone else blow's there 2hr and then the player with corressponding 2hr blow's there's and see if that work's. Just blowing your 2hr at random I think isn't the answer. also I feel you have a time limit on this as to as long as the 2hr is in effect with AV its possible to do this. for example****

AV uses Chainspell
???? uses invincible
???? uses benediction
???? uses manafont
???? uses eagle eye shot
???? uses Hundred Fist
???? uses Chainspell


they player's that used there 2hr before Chainspell will get there 2hr's reset.


For those interested you ready a weaponskill or job ability, you use a 2hr

Go read the first AV topic 50+ pages.

Then read this 43 page + topic.

Then reread your post and realize how dumb you look, ok?

[Max™]

Screw the stupid theories, I need people saying that giving Taru's Fortitude Torques is the secret, and I need people saying it a lot, so I can send an officer from my Sea shell here!

[Lonewind]

Please just stop the theories, and more testing results (if your LS is willing).

I'd say just continue on with your JoLs as planned and wait for SE to toss us another bone in maybe 2 more years.

[shieldsofwindurst]

Ask yourself this question do you(as in your character) ready a two hour or do you use a 2hr and then ask yourself do you Use a two hour or do you ready a 2hr and you'll find out that AV has 2hr's that are weapons skill's and 2hr's that are just plain jane 2hr's.

Ask yourself this question: Have you fought AV? Have you even seen AV? If yes, then go out and try your theory. Don't worry, we'll wait. In the mean time, we'll read this thread (and the other one, and the other one, and the other one) and our heads will probably explode from reading this exact theory every other page and then reading reports from people who did actually fight AV and did actually do exactly this and didn't get their 2hr reset or prevent further AV 2hrs.

The moral of the story: unless you are actually in the middle of testing your crackpot theories and can report actual results, do not post.

[Xellana]

I haven't read all of the pages in this thread yet as there is a hella lot to go thought, but I do have a question/theory of sorts. People have been talking about the weapons and how they might factor into killing AV and it made me wonder about the Jailers in general.

When AV is popped he mentions;

"The ssscattered fragments of my thoughtsss once again mine. Long forgotten memoriesss filling me once more... However... these memories generate sssuffering... These thoughtsss... bring remorssse..."

More then likely these 'scattered fragments' are referring to the Jailers and how the party that spawned him has defeated them. Has anyone tried killing AV with an alliance of people that have killed ALL the Jailers? And I don't mean add on parties either. I'm talking about being in the main party inflicting damage on them. You don't get titles for the Jailers, but I'm sure the data is saved in the background that acknowledges you've killed them.

Could those be the 'memories' AV is referring to? And having more memories in the party would generate more suffering or change his behaviour even a bit? I've noticed that some people have been able to 'lock' certain abilities or do something that stops AV from taking different actions.

I dunno... been reading the forum for a while and it bugged me so finally voiced something. Haha. Reading this thread is like reading a conspiracy theory. Entertaining and somewhat addicting.

[Titanss]

/facepalm

[chapstick]

Chances are, if you're fighting AV, you have killed every other jailer multiple times.

[Xellana]

Chances are, if you're fighting AV, you have killed every other jailer multiple times.

I understand that but like.. gosh I didn't word that right. When my LS does Jailers there's one party killing the Jailer and another killing the add-ons. So technically one party doesn't even touch the Jailer at all. You don't get a record for killing.

[Lonewind]

If you have to start the thread with "I haven't read all of the posts but I have a theory.." please refrain from posting unless you're gonna follow it with "but during our AV fight I've tested my theory and here are the results...." Thank you.

[Therin]

Chances are, if you're fighting AV, you have killed every other jailer multiple times.

I think he means in the same sitting, which is why his theory is batshit retarded.

SE wouldn't put you in the zone for 10 hours to defeat this one monster - it's also completely implausible to expect your entire alliance of 18-people to go through 10 hours of sea farming without one disconnecting member.

And yeah, what Lonewind said.