BRD formulas.

[Lockecole7]

For the love of world-wide peace, please repost the avatar.

Oh and to be relevant to the topic, I had a 75BRD and I pwned. Teh end.

[Zephyre]

As I understand, it goes like this:

Instrument(Wind/Sing) + Singing skill are equal potency when casting BRD buffs.
It could be assumed that this is probably true for BRD debuffs.

...

+Instruments for BRD buffs increase duration + potency.
+Instruments for BRD debuffs increase only duration.

...

General belief is that Wind helps debuffs more than Singing.

And wikia claims instruments do affect debuff potency. This could be (and probably has been) easily verified in ballista.

[Dexy]

The way I see it, Singing is a support to both Wind and String because they cap at C, and with a C cap you'd never land anything.

I see Singing as being worth 0.5 of a String or Wind Skill. If you spec'd fully for Singing, you'd see more resists than if you had the same level of Wind or String.
String sucks anyway, don't bother with it. Only thing you should use it for is Etude, but it's not worth the effort.

One thing to consider debuffing HNMs, a good balance of Wind and CHR and you'll have little problem landing Elegy on anything Pre-ToAU (Except sky gods). ToAU mobs, you will find it Kirin level hard to land Elegy, so in this case, just sub BLM and use Elemental seal stacked with Trobadour.

For the CHR : Skill ratio, I consider 1 skill being worth about 1.5CHR, so something like Errant body or Osode is best debuff body as there is nothing close to it in skill. Where as for rings, two of the Nerid rings are best.

It's hard to place a formula, if there is one at all, but you can generally get a 'feel' for the right amount of each.

[Tonko]

The Horn +1 instrument does increase the slow effect of Elegy. Go Elegy 2 hornets ourside of Jeuno, one with, and one without the Instrument. It'll become pretty obvious quickly. Same for Threnody and Requiem.

[miokomioko]

Wait wait wait... people didn't know "Song"+# on instruments increases duration AND potency for both buffs/debuffs? (Aside from Mazurka/Hymnus)

Yikes.

It's painfully obvious simply from the fact that any standard Elegy or "Elegy +1" cannot overwrite an "Elegy +2" because of the potency is higher with the +2. Has nothing to do with duration because any repeat debuffs of the same potency will always rewrite itself on a mob.

Every +1 for Requiem adds 1 dmg/tick, if I recall. I forget how much each + adds to Threnodies, but it's something. 1 hp/tick for Paeon for each +1, even Virelai lasts noticably longer with that stupid "Virelai+2" harp.

To be best, you're going to have Gjallahorn and your wind skill gear, but also a Requiem Flute for maximum potency and duration for your lolrequiems, and also all your string skill bullshit gear just for landing more potent and longer lasting Lightning Threnodies. HEH.

[Wizerd]

Wait wait wait... people didn't know "Song"+# on instruments increases duration AND potency for both buffs/debuffs? (Aside from Mazurka/Hymnus)

Yikes.

You make it sound so obvious, and then you go and say the Hymnus instrument doesn't affect potency. I haven't tested it myself, but I'll take friends' and wiki's word for it, that you get a few extra Exp back if cast with the instrument on.

It's painfully obvious simply from the fact that any standard Elegy or "Elegy +1" cannot overwrite an "Elegy +2" because of the potency is higher with the +2. Has nothing to do with duration because any repeat debuffs of the same potency will always rewrite itself on a mob.

Not sure if you're strictly talking about BRD songs, but it sounds like you just branched out to all debuffs. If that's the case, go cast Paralyze twice on a monster and see what happens. Or Slow. Ninja spells are my favourite for this.


Alas, I remember when the first Gjallarhorn was made and like wildfire, rumours and miss-facts spread throughout both the JP and NA communities that the +2 only affected the duration of Ballad, and not the potency.

[miokomioko]

Not sure if you're strictly talking about BRD songs

I'm not talking about anything other than Bard... should I be? Regardless, I may be incorrect about Hymnus instrument not affecting the potency of the reraise effect, but either way, as far as I can tell otherwise, Mazurka is the only instrument-enhanced song who's potency is not affected. (Yeah, yeah, I recall the glorious update that momentarily broke it and Harlequin's Horn made it +100% movement speed)

So, to straighten things out with those who didn't know. Songs enhancements on instruments affect duration AND potency. Overwriting of SONG debuffs can only be done by an equal or more-potent cast of the same song.

Also, elemental staves don't affect song potency or duration, (just magic accuracy?)

[Gergall]

Some misconceptions have been posted as fact:

1. ""Requiem +X increases the damage per tick" Nope, not true. Easily eyeball tested on tunnel worms.

2. "Hymnus +2 gives more XP back" Nope, not true. Easily tested by someone like me who frequently has capped XP, dies with Hymnus (regular or +2) and comes back with exactly 1200 missing every time. Anyone doing better might have forgotten to account for their Moghancement XP.

A lot of the other ideas that have been posted are also just guesses, including my 2 CHR = 1 Macc but also just about any other math you see in this thread.

[miokomioko]

""Requiem +X increases the damage per tick" Nope, not true. Easily eyeball tested on tunnel worms.

So, if this were true, I should be able to overwrite a Requiem+4 with a standard Requiem... I was almost certain one could not.

Also, although this doesn't quite apply to Bards, but I think songs with no instrument are -50% potency. I did a bunch of tests on a lot of this Bard InstrumentSkill/Charisma/SongEnhancement combination shit like 2 years ago so it's incredibly foggy.

[Tonko]

Some misconceptions have been posted as fact:

1. ""Requiem +X increases the damage per tick" Nope, not true. Easily eyeball tested on tunnel worms.

You are wrong. Go to Ballista and test it. Requiem 5 gets 5 base per tick for landing it, 1 more if your skill is above a certain point, and then 1 point per + on the instrument additional. Requiem VI @ 75 with the Requiem Flute is 11 HP per tick.

"eyeball tested on tunnel worms." fails.

[Vistani]

Song+ on requiem, threnody, lullaby and elegy also gives you an absolutely massive bonus to accuracy on them, go try landing any debuff song on something vaguely difficult and you'll just about never land it. Hymnus instrument is only duration, failwiki fails.

[miokomioko]

And I tested it just now before I go to sleep and forget about this nonsense...

*Equip Requiem Flute*
Mioko casts Foe Requiem VI.
The Lesser Colibri receives the effect of Requiem.

then

*Equip Fairy Piccolo*
Mioko's Foe Requiem VI has no effect on the Lesser Colibri.

[Wizerd]

Hymnus instrument is only duration, failwiki fails.

That's lame. I coulda sworn I've gotten a little exp back before, but oh well. Like was said, eyeballing fails. (Clarification, I've never had Exp moghancement, ever. )

[Zoot]

And I tested it just now before I go to sleep and forget about this nonsense...

*Equip Requiem Flute*
Mioko casts Foe Requiem VI.
The Lesser Colibri receives the effect of Requiem.

then

*Equip Fairy Piccolo*
Mioko's Foe Requiem VI has no effect on the Lesser Colibri.

Requiem of each tier is like Slow II where no matter what the potency or duration, the spell will not overwrite itself until it wears off. Basically any enfeeble of the same tier actually.

[Bakthi]

And I tested it just now before I go to sleep and forget about this nonsense...

*Equip Requiem Flute*
Mioko casts Foe Requiem VI.
The Lesser Colibri receives the effect of Requiem.

then

*Equip Fairy Piccolo*
Mioko's Foe Requiem VI has no effect on the Lesser Colibri.

Requiem of each tier is like Slow II where no matter what the potency or duration, the spell will not overwrite itself until it wears off. Basically any enfeeble of the same tier actually.

I overwrite Requiem VI with itself in between every buff when fighting Poroggo Madames in Zhayolm Remnants in case we get Chorused. The fact that you can do this helps a lot, actually.

I did some minimal testing back when I had...well, I don't even think I have any of the same gear now. Tried 50 casts of Lullaby with nothing, +singing, an equal amount of +wind, and +both. I want to go back and try again, because the margin of error was a little small due to my lack of gear, but +singing and +wind seemed to help out the same amount, and I've treated it as such since then.

Edit again: actually, it seems I tested between singing and string, with a non-lullaby harp, just to increase my resists enough to the point where I could get meaningful results. I doubt that the relationship between singing+string is different than singing+wind anyway...although if it is, that could explain why string is so terrible. Again, need to go back and test more! Every other job's equations have been so much more clear than ours for so long...possibly because if you just "stack skill where you can get it, get your CHR over 100, use wind instruments" then you're fine. Fine should not be good enough, however >.>

Edit way too many times: The last time I tested this was in Ro'Maeve, so I had to keep zoning so that I wouldn't die. I guess now I could go test it on hpemde, which would be a lot easier. Last time took an entire game week (not, of course, including darksday and lightsday).

[Wizerd]

And I tested it just now before I go to sleep and forget about this nonsense...

*Equip Requiem Flute*
Mioko casts Foe Requiem VI.
The Lesser Colibri receives the effect of Requiem.

then

*Equip Fairy Piccolo*
Mioko's Foe Requiem VI has no effect on the Lesser Colibri.

Requiem of each tier is like Slow II where no matter what the potency or duration, the spell will not overwrite itself until it wears off. Basically any enfeeble of the same tier actually.

I overwrite Requiem VI with itself in between every buff when fighting Poroggo Madames in Zhayolm Remnants in case we get Chorused. The fact that you can do this helps a lot, actually.

We do the same. Best thing ever.

[Zoot]

That's......really odd lol. Then I guess songs don't follow the old enfeeble tier scheme. The only thing I was ever sure of was that songs of longer duration overwrite but, I didn't think requiem could overwrite itself of the same tier.

[Seditedi]

BRD's different, I think Carnage Elegy will overwrite Carnage Elegy too.

[Stanislaw]

BRD's different, I think Carnage Elegy will overwrite Carnage Elegy too.

That is correct.

However, I should point out that Troubadour/Nightingale BRD debuffs do not overwrite normal debuffs. This is the only time an exception is made. Same goes with Troubadour/Nightingale BRD buffs as well.

I'm not 100% sure on Soul Voice BRD debuffs though, although I'm pretty sure Soul Voice BRD buffs can be overwritten by normal BRD buffs.

[Conrad]

BRD's different, I think Carnage Elegy will overwrite Carnage Elegy too.

That is correct.

However, I should point out that Troubadour/Nightingale BRD debuffs do not overwrite normal debuffs. This is the only time an exception is made. Same goes with Troubadour/Nightingale BRD buffs as well.

I'm not 100% sure on Soul Voice BRD debuffs though, although I'm pretty sure Soul Voice BRD buffs can be overwritten by normal BRD buffs.

The song that you just have played will take the spot of the buff that will wear off first.

Edit: Regardless of potency.